N64/PS1/Saturn/DC sales - US NPD

[A Black Falcon]

Just a bunch of BS on Capcom's port as they didn't even bother to port it to the Saturn.

All that proves is that Sony caved and let them release Mega Man 8, you know. It sounds like a very plausible rumor.

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, everyone that bought the Namco Museum games did so, because of those neat 3D museums.

Uh, why do you keep talking about whether people bought it for the museum or not? That's irrelevant. What matters is that it exists, that's all.

I used to love WD, with the cool titles they translated to the Sega CD and Saturn, but years later I got tired of the prima-donna act that Ireland had. He accused Sony of being anti-2d, yet one of the first titles he translated for the Playstation was Alundra. And where does he get off thinking Sega of America should pay for his E3 booth? That should tell you just how irrational Ireland was.

Uh, they'd paid for his booths the last couple of years before that, and he'd been Sega-exclusive for several years at that point. First parties often help out third parties who are releasing exclusive stuff on their consoles.

He accused Sony of being anti-2d, yet one of the first titles he translated for the Playstation was Alundra.

When did he first accuse Sony of being anti-2d? I know he was complaining about this in the PS2 generation, but was he in the PS1 generation as well? If he was, please prove it.

The long list of 2D title for the North American Playstation is all the proof I need. Especially when the 1st RPG I had bought for my system was Beyond the Beyond, which is very much 2D, even with the scaling sprites.

I know, your entire case is based around sticking your figngers in your ears and ignoring every single piece of evidence which conclusively, and beyond any shadow of a doubt, proves you wrong. That much is blatantly obvious. All it does is make you look more and more ridiculous, you know.

I'm 45 years old. I wasn't playing consoles during the 32-bit era with mommy and daddy's money. I'd bought the Saturn at launch in May of 1995. I'd bought the Playstation early on in 1996. And I'd bought the N64 at launch from EB games with Mario 64.

The 1st year lineup of games for the Playstation had a ton of 2D titles. I'll take physical evidence over anecdotal every day of the week and so will the United States court system.

The fact that Sony allowed some 2d games to be rleeased here and there doesn't prove your case, and I have no idea why you think it does. It's quite bizarre that you think that simply because they allowed a few 2d games sometimes, that proves that they weren't deeply skeptical of 2d games and pushed against them most of the time. Seriously, your entire case is so nonexistent that it's crazy that you keep actually saying it.

[MrSega]

All that proves is that Sony caved and let them release Mega Man 8, you know. It sounds like a very plausible rumor.

Rockman 8 certainly was initially planned as a Saturn exclusive. Inafune has even admitted it. Sony begged Capcom to release the game on PS1 touting that it was easier to code and could be released first.

Again, the main thing Sony kept boasting about was the pointless fully colorized Instruction Manual. Capcom savored all of its easter eggs and anniversary features for the Saturn version.

Many people think the Saturn version is just a mere port, they're wrong. The Saturn version obviously had more effort put into it and Capcom obviously spent more time on it. The PS1 version looks and feels rushed and a bit lazy.

The Saturn version looks better, plays better, has higher resolution, shorter loading times ,better sound quality and cleaner animation.

[Da_Shocker]

All that proves is that Sony caved and let them release Mega Man 8, you know. It sounds like a very plausible rumor.

You mean to tell me that Capcom of America had the resources to port the game over to the Saturn?

[MrSega]

You mean to tell me that Capcom of America had the resources to port the game over to the Saturn?

It was ALWAYS planned for the Saturn. So that post doesn't make alot of sense.

The Saturn and PS1 versions are completely different from each other.

Type in "Tengu Man" stage on YouTube and you'll see just how different.

[Da_Shocker]

It was ALWAYS planned for the Saturn. So that post doesn't make alot of sense.

The Saturn and PS1 versions are completely different from each other.

Type in "Tengu Man" stage on YouTube and you'll see just how different.

Here is the thing Sony's "alleged" anti-2D policy was in America not in Japan. Capcom of America would either have to attempt to port the game themselves or somehow convince Capcom of Japan to port it to the Saturn. During that time I highly doubt it was going to happen regardless of what they say.

[MrSega]

Here is the thing Sony's "alleged" anti-2D policy was in America not in Japan. Capcom of America would either have to attempt to port the game themselves or somehow convince Capcom of Japan to port it to the Saturn. During that time I highly doubt it was going to happen regardless of what they say.

Point taken. It does appear that 2D Arcade ports were always inferior on PS1 was likely because of SCEA.

[Da_Shocker]

Point taken. It does appear that 2D Arcade ports were always inferior on PS1 was likely because of SCEA.

Uhm no it's because the Saturn had better 2D hardware and Capcom didn't feel like optimizing the PSx code. The only ports that were downright terrible were the Vs. series on the PSx.

[MrSega]

Uhm no it's because the Saturn had better 2D hardware and Capcom didn't feel like optimizing the PSx code. The only ports that were downright terrible were the Vs. series on the PSx.

The Saturn had higher sprite count and stronger RAM than PS1. Which are the the key ingredients to coding and programming 2D games.

Saturn could do up to 4MB of RAM. PS1 was severely bottlenecked to just 1MB.

[Da_Shocker]

The Saturn had higher sprite count and stronger RAM than PS1. Which are the the key ingredients to coding and programming 2D games.

Saturn could do up to 4MB of RAM. PS1 was severely bottlenecked to just 1MB.

No shit Sherlock.

[MrSega]

No shit Sherlock.

Yeah ,but try telling that to some of the others.

[sheath]

Actually all of that is wrong. The PS1 and Saturn had 2MB of RAM, but the PS1's was all high speed RAM while the Saturn's was split between high speed and low speed. With the RAM expansion carts the Saturn could have 3MB or 6MB of RAM total. I'm not sure how fast the RAM from the cartridge bus was compared to High RAM though. Either way, the PS1 is not "crippled" to 1MB of RAM, it had 2MB just like the Saturn.

Even if we are talking about VRAM both the PS1 and Saturn has 1MB there as well, but the Saturn had two 256KB Frame Buffers as well. I have been told that the Saturn's VDP1 and VDP2 Frame Buffers were not technically an advantage for the Saturn's video system. Something to do with the VDP1 only having access to half of that 1MB of VRAM and the VDP1 being all that matters in a tech comparison with the PS1. :shrug:

[A Black Falcon]

Rockman 8 certainly was initially planned as a Saturn exclusive. Inafune has even admitted it. Sony begged Capcom to release the game on PS1 touting that it was easier to code and could be released first.

Again, the main thing Sony kept boasting about was the pointless fully colorized Instruction Manual. Capcom savored all of its easter eggs and anniversary features for the Saturn version.

Many people think the Saturn version is just a mere port, they're wrong. The Saturn version obviously had more effort put into it and Capcom obviously spent more time on it. The PS1 version looks and feels rushed and a bit lazy.

The Saturn version looks better, plays better, has higher resolution, shorter loading times ,better sound quality and cleaner animation.

If Sony "begged" for a PS1 version of MM8, I'm sure that that'd have been Sony of Japan, who never had a problem with 2d games. There's no possible way that Sony of America would ever have begged for a game like MM8, and that's why the rumor is that Capcom had to play hardball with them in order to force Sony of America to allow them to release the game here.

You mean to tell me that Capcom of America had the resources to port the game over to the Saturn?

Well, Capcom of America is a division of Capcom of Japan, and I'm sure Capcom could have afforded the port had they wanted to (or had to) do it.

[MrSega]

Actually all of that is wrong. The PS1 and Saturn had 2MB of RAM, but the PS1's was all high speed RAM while the Saturn's was split between high speed and low speed. With the RAM expansion carts the Saturn could have 3MB or 6MB of RAM total. I'm not sure how fast the RAM from the cartridge bus was compared to High RAM though. Either way, the PS1 is not "crippled" to 1MB of RAM, it had 2MB just like the Saturn.

Even if we are talking about VRAM both the PS1 and Saturn has 1MB there as well, but the Saturn had two 256KB Frame Buffers as well. I have been told that the Saturn's VDP1 and VDP2 Frame Buffers were not technically an advantage for the Saturn's video system. Something to do with the VDP1 only having access to half of that 1MB of VRAM and the VDP1 being all that matters in a tech comparison with the PS1. :shrug:

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/PlayStation

The PS1 used all of its 2 RAM for 3D and only 3D with a unified 1MB VRAM data. What I was saying was that its 2D is bottlenecked at 1MB.

Though PS1 did have a better design than Saturn and superior 3D engines and visual features using Trilateral polygons, it is limited and technically inferior to Saturn.

It could only push up to 398,000 polygons and 180,000 geometrics. Mostly averaging 150,000. And
averaged 360,000 PPS.
PS1 games also had low resolution and plenty of slowdown. There are many games that have missing textures, slower buffering and removed backgrounds.

@A Black Falcon. It was SCEJ. They wanted the game out on their platform first before Saturn's.

[gamevet]

Uh, why do you keep talking about whether people bought it for the museum or not? That's irrelevant. What matters is that it exists, that's all.

Because you're being stupid. The Namco Museum discs are 2D game compilations. The next thing you know, you'll say that the Atari Anniversary collection isn't 2D, because it has FMV interviews.

Uh, they'd paid for his booths the last couple of years before that, and he'd been Sega-exclusive for several years at that point. First parties often help out third parties who are releasing exclusive stuff on their consoles.

Actually, Sega pays for X-amount of floor space and they can allow venders to show their products within that space.

Who knows? Maybe Ireland was going to show Alundra as the show and Stolar took offense to it. They probably argued about it and Stolar threw him in a space in the back because of it.

When did he first accuse Sony of being anti-2d? I know he was complaining about this in the PS2 generation, but was he in the PS1 generation as well? If he was, please prove it.

See, this is why you're stuff is way off base. We've already had this discussion pages ago, about Ireland being one of the people that was making accusations about Sony's anti-2D/RPG policy. Did you miss that conversation? It's the conversation that brought up this whole debate about Sony and its policies, dating back to Stolar's tenure with the company.

Ireland wanted to bring over Arc the Lad and was supposedly given the anti-2D/RPG line from one of Stolar's associates. Ireland never talked directly to Stolar about the game though. But guess what? A year or 2 later, he's releasing Alundra for the Playstation in 1997. And several years later he's releasing the Arc the Lad collection.

I know, your entire case is based around sticking your figngers in your ears and ignoring every single piece of evidence which conclusively, and beyond any shadow of a doubt, proves you wrong. That much is blatantly obvious. All it does is make you look more and more ridiculous, you know.


The fact that Sony allowed some 2d games to be rleeased here and there doesn't prove your case, and I have no idea why you think it does. It's quite bizarre that you think that simply because they allowed a few 2d games sometimes, that proves that they weren't deeply skeptical of 2d games and pushed against them most of the time. Seriously, your entire case is so nonexistent that it's crazy that you keep actually saying it.

No, I've heard the silly arguments, based on conjecture.

There is more than enough evidence that proves Sony did not enforce this supposed Anti-2D/RPG policy. I've already showed you that nearly 70% of the 2D games released in Japan, also made it to North America. Did you completely ignore that, or were you too busy sticking your fingers in your ears to notice real numbers?

I'll take a lawyer that brings hard evidence to court, over one that relies on questionable witnesses.