N64/PS1/Saturn/DC sales - US NPD

[Barone]

I've already posted that list and edited out games like View Point. I even showed the same source.

Sorry, I'm not following this thread very closely so...
Viewpoint is isometric 2D (CG pre-rendered crap in the PS1 version), not really 3D. It should be in another category though IMO.

Did you actually read that list?

Philosoma is not a 2D shooter. Trim the games off of that list, that aren't 2D, and it gets a bit shorter.

Of course the list is full of shit but it's a start if you really want to compare games released in different regions.

I've bolded the titles I don't think made it to North America, or I'm not sure about.
It looks like over 75% of those made it here, and over 90% of the RPGs.

You must be kidding me. You really believe in those percentages you're claiming given that, for an example, the Puzzle list has like just a dozen of games?
Pffffffff.

There are plenty of Japan-only 2d games for the Playstation. Most of them aren't on that list. That list there doesn't even have (using the US titles for these JP-only PS1 games) The Last Blade, Samurai Shodown 1, Samurai Shodown 2, Samurai Shodown 4, Metal Slug, or Samurai Shodown RPG on it, much less stuff from obscure Japanese developers...

Yep.

Point taken. It does appear that 2D Arcade ports were always inferior on PS1 was likely because of SCEA.

AHHAHAHAHAHA
The Capcom Generation collection is more accurate on the PS1 than on the Saturn.
Konami Deluxe Packs are usually better on the PS1. Actually the Saturn can't match the proper arcade resolution for both old Capcom and old Konami arcade machines like the PS1 could, to begin with.

Actually all of that is wrong. The PS1 and Saturn had 2MB of RAM, but the PS1's was all high speed RAM while the Saturn's was split between high speed and low speed. With the RAM expansion carts the Saturn could have 3MB or 6MB of RAM total. I'm not sure how fast the RAM from the cartridge bus was compared to High RAM though. Either way, the PS1 is not "crippled" to 1MB of RAM, it had 2MB just like the Saturn.

Even if we are talking about VRAM both the PS1 and Saturn has 1MB there as well, but the Saturn had two 256KB Frame Buffers as well. I have been told that the Saturn's VDP1 and VDP2 Frame Buffers were not technically an advantage for the Saturn's video system. Something to do with the VDP1 only having access to half of that 1MB of VRAM and the VDP1 being all that matters in a tech comparison with the PS1. :shrug:

This.

I've already showed you that nearly 70% of the 2D games released in Japan, also made it to North America. Did you completely ignore that, or were you too busy sticking your fingers in your ears to notice real numbers?

Your numbers and percentages are anything but real. Sorry.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Well, with Capcom Generation 5 the loading times are at least a tad faster on the Saturn vs the PS1. And the Konami Deluxe Packs on the Saturn have the option to have bars on the side to preserve the original resolution or to remove them and open up the sides for a wider presentation.

[Barone]

@gamevet
Let me try to improve that crap list a bit... I just copied your bold marks, fixed some and added the lacking games I could remember in the end, removing games which used fully 3D backgrounds, tons of 3D enemies and the likes.

2D Shooters:
Gradius Deluxe Pack
Salamander Deluxe Pack Plus
Gradius Gaiden
Gokujyo Parodius Da! Deluxe Pack
Jikkyu Oshaberi Parodius
Sexy Parodius
Detana Twinbee Yahho-! Deluxe Pack
Arcade Gears: Image Fight & X-Multiply
The Raiden Project -> US Version lacks proper TATE controls, which only can be enabled using devices like gameshark.
Darius Gaiden
Zanac X Zanac
R-Types
Strikers 1945
Strikers 1945 II -> US Version lacks TATE mode.
Gekioh Shienryu/Gekioh: Shooting King
Gunbird/Mobile Light Force -> The US version is butchered to no end.
Fantastic Night Dreams: Cotton Original
In The Hunt
Donpachi
DoDonpachi
Gaia Seed
Sol Divide
Soukyugerentai/Terra Diver
Stahlfeder
Time Bokan
Toaplan Shooting Battle 1
Two-Tenkaku
Kyuiin
X2
Xevious 3D/G+
Sonic Wings Special
Dezaemon Kids
Dezaemon Plus
Cotton 100%
Harmful Park
TRL: The Rail Loaders
Gatchaman: The Shooting
Macross: Do You Remember Love

29 titles out of 38, which give us 76.3%, 2D shooters NOT released in US.

I'll have a look in the other genres when I get back from work.

Well, with Capcom Generation 5 the loading times are at least a tad faster on the Saturn vs the PS1.

The arcade resolution is not matched in the Saturn version and you still have the Blanka stage scrolling little bug.

And the Konami Deluxe Packs on the Saturn have the option to have bars on the side to preserve the original resolution or to remove them and open up the sides for a wider presentation.

You still won't have the game in full screen with the same aspect ratio you had in the arcade cabinets like you have on the PS1.

Anyway, my point was just to show how far from the truth MrSega was; not to trash the Saturn versions...

[gamevet]

Sorry, I'm not following this thread very closely so...
Viewpoint is isometric 2D (CG pre-rendered crap in the PS1 version), not really 3D. It should be in another category though IMO.

You're not missing much.

Of course the list is full of shit but it's a start if you really want to compare games released in different regions.

Some of that stuff takes a little homework. I highlighted the Puzzle Bobble games, but it turns out those are Bust-A-Move in North America. That changes the puzzle genre somewhat.

You must be kidding me. You really believe in those percentages you're claiming given that, for an example, the Puzzle list has like just a dozen of games?
Pffffffff.


Your numbers and percentages are anything but real. Sorry.

I just threw up an estimated value. After doing the math using the current list, it came out to @ 62%. But that number is still off, because you have compilations in the West, that were individual releases in Japan, or spread out differently. Take the Konami Arcade Classics for example. The Konami collections for Japan are MSX titles on 3 different sets, while in the west we got Konami's arcade collection. The Konami Arcade Classics wasn't on that list.

You have to consider that some those games would not have an audience in North America, like Terra Diver that never had a release outside of Japan. Then you have weird stuff like Asuka 120%.

[A Black Falcon]

Because you're being stupid. The Namco Museum discs are 2D game compilations. The next thing you know, you'll say that the Atari Anniversary collection isn't 2D, because it has FMV interviews.

No, that's different. The museum is an actual gameplay element.

Actually, Sega pays for X-amount of floor space and they can allow venders to show their products within that space.

Yeah, and when WD was Sega-exclusive, they were showing off WD's stuff in that space. Makes sense.

Who knows? Maybe Ireland was going to show Alundra as the show and Stolar took offense to it. They probably argued about it and Stolar threw him in a space in the back because of it.

That's purely speculation.

See, this is why you're stuff is way off base. We've already had this discussion pages ago, about Ireland being one of the people that was making accusations about Sony's anti-2D/RPG policy. Did you miss that conversation? It's the conversation that brought up this whole debate about Sony and its policies, dating back to Stolar's tenure with the company.

Ireland wanted to bring over Arc the Lad and was supposedly given the anti-2D/RPG line from one of Stolar's associates. Ireland never talked directly to Stolar about the game though. But guess what? A year or 2 later, he's releasing Alundra for the Playstation in 1997. And several years later he's releasing the Arc the Lad collection.

Yeah, he released Alundra... after Bernie Stolar left Sony. Key point, that. And also, you're confusing things; Vic said that Bernie's Sony didn't want him to release Arc the Lad because it was an RPG. I don't think he said that it was because it was also 2d. His complaints about Sony blocking 2d releases were mostly about Grownlanser Generations, the PS2 games he was forced to put in a collection. Don't mix that up with the PS1 stuff. PS1 Sony also was biased against 2d, but seems to have been slightly more forgiving than they became during the PS2 era.

No, I've heard the silly arguments, based on conjecture.

No conjecture involved, except in your head.

There is more than enough evidence that proves Sony did not enforce this supposed Anti-2D/RPG policy. I've already showed you that nearly 70% of the 2D games released in Japan, also made it to North America. Did you completely ignore that, or were you too busy sticking your fingers in your ears to notice real numbers?

I'll take a lawyer that brings hard evidence to court, over one that relies on questionable witnesses.

That percent is an invented fiction. I've already brought hard evidence, you have none. If you ACTUALLY believe that we got 70% of the 2d games on the Playstation, well, we're done here. You clearly don't have the slightest idea of how many 2d games released in Japan, as Barone said.

I just threw up an estimated value. After doing the math using the current list, it came out to @ 62%. But that number is still off, because you have compilations in the West, that were individual releases in Japan, or spread out differently. Take the Konami Arcade Classics for example. The Konami collections for Japan are MSX titles on 3 different sets, while in the west we got Konami's arcade collection. The Konami Arcade Classics wasn't on that list.

You have to consider that some those games would not have an audience in North America, like Terra Diver that never had a release outside of Japan. Then you have weird stuff like Asuka 120%.

What you're missing is that there are vastly, vastly more 2d games released on the PS1 than that in Japan. With puzzle games for instance, here are some actual lists.

US released puzzle games on PS1: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/list-173?region=1&dist=1

Japan-released puzzle games on PS1: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/list-173?region=2&dist=1

Some games of course are in the wrong genre or actually did get a US release, and a few use polygons, but still, the Japan list is at least four times longer than the US one, as you'd expect.

[MrSega]

No, that's different. The museum is an actual gameplay element.


Yeah, and when WD was Sega-exclusive, they were showing off WD's stuff in that space. Makes sense.


That's purely speculation.


Yeah, he released Alundra... after Bernie Stolar left Sony. Key point, that. And also, you're confusing things; Vic said that Bernie's Sony didn't want him to release Arc the Lad because it was an RPG. I don't think he said that it was because it was also 2d. His complaints about Sony blocking 2d releases were mostly about Grownlanser Generations, the PS2 games he was forced to put in a collection. Don't mix that up with the PS1 stuff. PS1 Sony also was biased against 2d, but seems to have been slightly more forgiving than they became during the PS2 era.


No conjecture involved, except in your head.


That percent is an invented fiction. I've already brought hard evidence, you have none. If you ACTUALLY believe that we got 70% of the 2d games on the Playstation, well, we're done here. You clearly don't have the slightest idea of how many 2d games released in Japan, as Barone said.


What you're missing is that there are vastly, vastly more 2d games released on the PS1 than that in Japan. With puzzle games for instance, here are some actual lists.

US released puzzle games on PS1: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/list-173?region=1&dist=1

Japan-released puzzle games on PS1: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/list-173?region=2&dist=1

Some games of course are in the wrong genre or actually did get a US release, but still, the Japan list is at least four times longer than the US one, as you'd expect.

Can't rep for some reason.

[gamevet]

No, that's different. The museum is an actual gameplay element.

What"s next? Are you going to tell me that Ridge Racer doesn't qualify as a 3D game, because it has Galaxian gameplay during the loading screen? That's just ignorant.

That's purely speculation.

Duh!

We don't know why Ireland went on a rant. If he only had MKR to show in the Sega booth, why should he expect to get front billing?

Yeah, he released Alundra... after Bernie Stolar left Sony. Key point, that. And also, you're confusing things; Vic said that Bernie's Sony didn't want him to release Arc the Lad because it was an RPG. I don't think he said that it was because it was also 2d. His complaints about Sony blocking 2d releases were mostly about Grownlanser Generations, the PS2 games he was forced to put in a collection. Don't mix that up with the PS1 stuff. PS1 Sony also was biased against 2d, but seems to have been slightly more forgiving than they became during the PS2 era.

Make up your mind. This whole debate was based around Stolar's supposed no 2D/RPGs stance during his tenure at Sony and Sega. You even said that Sony was still enforcing that rule after he had left the company, yet several of us had disagreed, based upon how many RPGs and 2D games were released here. There were 2D games and RPGs being released on the Playstation during his tenure at Sony, so there is no solid proof that such a policy was enforced.

No conjecture involved, except in your head.

Statements from a couple of publishers is conjecture, being that those statements don't prove that SCEA had a no 2D/RPG policy. The number of games that were released in those categories prove otherwise.

That percent is an invented fiction. I've already brought hard evidence, you have none. If you ACTUALLY believe that we got 70% of the 2d games on the Playstation, well, we're done here. You clearly don't have the slightest idea of how many 2d games released in Japan, as Barone said.

It was a guestimate based upon the list that was provided. Yeah, that list doesn't include the countless versions of games like Beatmania. I never stated it was fact. And not every 2D game was developed in Japan.

Fact was the list of RPGs and 2D games that were released in North America. Not fact, is listing Vic Ireland's (and SNK's) statements as being what every publisher was told.

What you're missing is that there are vastly, vastly more 2d games released on the PS1 than that in Japan. With puzzle games for instance, here are some actual lists.

US released puzzle games on PS1: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/list-173?region=1&dist=1

Japan-released puzzle games on PS1: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/list-173?region=2&dist=1

Some games of course are in the wrong genre or actually did get a US release, and a few use polygons, but still, the Japan list is at least four times longer than the US one, as you'd expect.

Puzzle games have been far more popular in Japan, than the West. You'll find similar numbers for those games on most of those Japanese consoles. You'll get similar results looking up Shoot 'em ups as well. Japan having far more 2D titles does not mean that SCEA wasn't accepting those titles here.


Gamefaqs isn't a very accurate site either. Just look at this list that it came up with for the North American RPGs.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/list-48?region=1&dist=1

What happened to Alundra, Tactics Ogre and Vanguard Bandits?

[Da_Shocker]

The very first PSx game I ever played was a 2D shooter published by Sony by the name of Raiden Project.

[A Black Falcon]

What"s next? Are you going to tell me that Ridge Racer doesn't qualify as a 3D game, because it has Galaxian gameplay during the loading screen? That's just ignorant.

The game is a collection of 2d games with a 3d museum to also explore. What is so hard about that to understand?

Duh!

We don't know why Ireland went on a rant. If he only had MKR to show in the Sega booth, why should he expect to get front billing?

Uh, he didn't have MKR. Have you REALLY forgotten that he cancelled everything else as soon as he heard about the whole "Saturn is not our future" thing, and the bad back-of-the-booth place Bernie had put him in, too? He was going to announce a bunch of stuff at E3. I think Team Andromeda listed some prospective ones earlier, but he's definitely said that some Techno Soft stuff was going to be released, until Sega's E3 disaster warded him away from it. I've already said this, I shouldn't have to keep repeating myself.

Edit: WD also was showing Albert Odyssey at E3 '97, surely, since they released that game in late July '97 in the US, as well as MKR, and would have had more if not for Bernie Stolar.

Make up your mind. This whole debate was based around Stolar's supposed no 2D/RPGs stance during his tenure at Sony and Sega.

No, it wasn't. The anti-RPG thing was only during Bernie Stolar's tenure. The anti-2d thing lasted through the entire PS1 and PS2 generations, however, in different forms over time.

You even said that Sony was still enforcing that rule after he had left the company,

The 2d rule, not the RPG rule.

yet several of us had disagreed, based upon how many RPGs and 2D games were released here. There were 2D games and RPGs being released on the Playstation during his tenure at Sony, so there is no solid proof that such a policy was enforced.

There is solid proof, particularly for 2d but also for RPGs, and several of us have presented it. You just keep coming up with excuses for why you're ignoring it. That's your problem, not ours. The proof is in this thread, if you'd stop being so ridiculous and actually pay attention to the evidence that has been presented.

Statements from a couple of publishers is conjecture,

No it isn't.

being that those statements don't prove that SCEA had a no 2D/RPG policy.

Statements from multiple publishers, industry people, fans, etc. all agreeing that Sony had anti-2d policies don't count? No, they do count, and they are definite proof. I can't even begin to understand why you would say that multiple corroborating stories from publishers saying how Sony's anti-2d policies hurt them isn't proof that Sony had anti-2d policies. IT IS.

The number of games that were released in those categories prove otherwise.

Actually it does the opposite. The lists have already shown this, but the statements are what proves it, not any lists.

It was a guestimate based upon the list that was provided. Yeah, that list doesn't include the countless versions of games like Beatmania. I never stated it was fact.

That you actually thought that estimate was reasonable was all the proof I could ever need about how clueless about how many 2d games there are for PS1 in Japan... seriously, in the puzzle genre alone, we got maybe 25% of the Japanese releases, max. And almost all of those are 2d games. And you actually thought that 62 or 70 percent of them came over here? Come on, you can't have actually believed that, you must know better.

And not every 2D game was developed in Japan.

Most were.

Fact was the list of RPGs and 2D games that were released in North America. Not fact, is listing Vic Ireland's (and SNK's) statements as being what every publisher was told.

Those things are both facts. Anyway, to repeat myself once again because you are not listening, it wasn't WD or SNK who first said that Sony had anti-2d policies. Sony said it, in 1995. WD and SNK, to repeat myself once again, had their biggest problems in the PS2 generation, not PS1, when SCEA's anti-2d policies got even stricter. But Sony itself said stuff about how "only 3d games are games" from 1995 on. Sure, they published a couple of 2d games in 1995, but stopped that pretty much then, and focused pretty much exclusively on 3d games. They wanted their third parties to do the same.

Puzzle games have been far more popular in Japan, than the West. You'll find similar numbers for those games on most of those Japanese consoles. You'll get similar results looking up Shoot 'em ups as well. Japan having far more 2D titles does not mean that SCEA wasn't accepting those titles here.

Sure, you're right that Japan would have more puzzle and shmup games regardless, but why can't you understand that publicly saying how they disliked 2d games, and privately trying to argue against the release of 2d games in the US, happened? Because it did, and that has been proven. The fact that SCEA disliked 2d games is just as well proven as the fact that the SNES outsold the Genesis worldwide, or that the PS2 sold better than the Gamecube, or anything like that.

Gamefaqs isn't a very accurate site either. Just look at this list that it came up with for the North American RPGs.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/list-48?region=1&dist=1

What happened to Alundra, Tactics Ogre and Vanguard Bandits?

GameFAQs correctly lists Alundra as an Action-Adventure game (Alundra is like Zelda, and other than Zelda 2, Zelda games aren't RPGs either. No experience points, no RPG.) and Tactics Ogre and Vanguard Bandits as strategy games. Those are their proper genres. I think it's great that GameFAQs ignores that stupid "Tactics games are RPGs" thing a lot of people say, and correctly lists them as strategy games, which is of course what they are. They are RPG-heavy strategy games, but strategy is their primary genre.

[Da_Shocker]

@ A Black Falcon i'm glad that you take face value for every damn thing that 3rd party comes out of there mouth's as the absolute truth. And then yo go on about that POS Vic Ireland who blatantly lied about Sega during the DC.

[A Black Falcon]

Here are some more cases of SCEA getting in the way of games releasing in North America, mostly for graphics reasons.

http://www.psu.com/forums/archive/in.../t-174432.html - SCEA refused to approve Battle Fantasia for PS3, which is why the game is X360 only in the US, while in Japan and Europe it was released on both PS3 and 360. The game is 2.5d, but must have run afoul somewhere else. This thread also points out something I'd forgotten -- SCEA didn't (doesn't?) allow games with Japanese-only voice acting, if you're having voices, the game must have English. Frustrating, but this was a hard restriction, no exceptions (for speech that is).

http://www.the-magicbox.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=9745 - I'm sure you'll ignore this and pretend that "it's all speculation" or something, but sometimes, the simplest explanation for something is the correct one. The simplest explanation for why almost everyone who knows anything has said, since somewhere around 1995, that SCEA has had a longstanding problem with 2d game releases... well, it's because they did. Also, the source names there weren't mentioned, but that's to protect them; that information is all too accurate, everything else agrees that it's true. This thread also mentions how SCEA blocked Agetec from releasing Shadow Tower Abyss (PS2) because its graphics weren't good enough and they didn't think the game would sell, because of their stupidly backwards visions of the American market.

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/06/29...3-development/ A publisher was considering releasing it, but Sony refused to allow Sakura Wars 1+2 certification for a US PSP release: "it's a text novel, not a game".

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3915174 - Vic Ireland can't specify (surely for legal reasons), but Sony made his publishing games on the PS2 nearly impossible, blocking many games, delaying Growlanser Generations for years, etc.

Etc etc etc etc etc.

@ A Black Falcon i'm glad that you take face value for every damn thing that 3rd party comes out of there mouth's as the absolute truth. And then yo go on about that POS Vic Ireland who blatantly lied about Sega during the DC.

We've been over that already, but he didn't lie.

[A Black Falcon]

To add on to what I've said, Sega hired Bernie Stolar in mid 1996. Guess when the first RPGs started releasing on the Playstation? In later 1996, shortly after Bernie left. Saying that there is no connection between those two things, Bernie leaving and RPGs starting to show up on the Playstation, is ... questionable. For instance, Revelations: Persona, Ogre Battle, and Beyond the Beyond all released in mid to later '96, after Sega hired away Bernie. After some searching I'm not finding any articles saying exactly when Sega hired Bernie, but I do know that Kalinske left on July 15, 1996, and the first strategy/rpg on the PS1, Ogre Battle, was published at the end of that month. This is probably after Bernie left for Sega. So, no RPGs on the PS1 under Bernie, except for King's Field, which of course isn't exactly a traditional RPG.


I can see why some of you people might not like what Victor Ireland's said though... here for instance he says how Sega killing the Saturn and then "going dark for two years" was a major mistake and that Bernie Stolar is the reason why WD didn't publish in Dreamcast... http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=187

One launch does not a success make. Going essentially dry as a console manufacturer for basically TWO YEARS is crazy. Imagine if Sony said "PS3 is not our future" today and stopped promoting it and wound down first party releases until the PS4 in two years. It's suicide. Kills the cash flow of the company, pisses off retailers, shows publishers you don't care about them or their schedules - it's bad all the way around, and that bad decision-making poisoned SEGA and the Dreamcast well so badly it couldn't be overcome, despite a very solid launch.

If BS had never happened to SEGA, they might still be making consoles. Another thing his wartmonger Gretchen did is completely obliterate the third party division at SEGA. Just destroyed it. They had a really great staff and great systems in place and she took it apart because she was too dim to understand how it worked.

Hah... yeah, can't quite agree with him here (Of course really you have to go back to like '94 at least to get to the worst bad decisions, though the '97 ones were bad as well.), but while quite unlikely (I think it was the 32X and the bad Saturn launch that ultimately doomed Sega, not Bernie), who knows, he could be right...

Here's some more of him bashing Bernie's decision to kill the Saturn early. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...2&postcount=66


Or here, he says that releasing Lunar SSSC on PS1 and not Saturn was the right decision: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=101 (PS1 larger userbase, grew the franchise, SSSC launched at #1 its first month, outsold Grandia and all other Japanese games at that time)


Here's his quote about how he cancelled four unannounced Saturn games on the spot after seeing Bernie's Sega conference and how Sega had put him (literally) behind a wall at E3 1997.http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=169

Here he says that Bernie blocked WD from releasing the Saturn RAM Cartridge in the US, even though he wanted to. Bernie blocked him from even allowing them to sell it just direct to customers, not even in stores. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=241

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...8&postcount=82
Here Victor Ireland (vireland on NeoGAF) says that Bernie's No-RPG policy pushed back WD's entry onto the Playstation until after he left; he couldn't get Bernie to approve stuff (Arc the Lad is his stated example), so he went mostly to Sega... only for Bernie to move over there. Poor Vic Ireland. He also says that WD had paid Sega beforehand for that E3 1997 booth space that Bernie tried to take away from him; Sega wasn't just giving them space, he paid for it. Important detail to mention! Of course Bernie was eventually forced to give them some space, but he put them behind a wall, just because, and then went out there and said "Saturn is not our future". And Vic Ireland has never forgiven him for any of it. He also mentions yet again here how WD cancelled four to-be-announced Saturn games on the spot at E3 '97.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...5&postcount=17

At that meeting we worked out the licensing of Hyper Duel + Blast Wind + TF Gold Pack that we were to release on Saturn as a single shooter pack. I unfortunately had to cancel it at the E3 where Bernie and co screwed us and Saturn over. Tecnosoft folded not too long after.

I think everyone on this forum can at least agree that it's a serious tragedy that we didn't get this, yes? This is one of the four cancelled Saturn games of his, from E3 '97. I don't think he's said what the other three were...


On the other hand, here's Bernie, saying that there was no backlash against Sega pre-Dreamcast. http://venturebeat.com/2009/09/11/qa...ny-his-ouster/

Bitmob: A lot of gamers swore off Sega hardware after the days of the Sega CD, the 32X, and to a lesser extent, a poorly supported Saturn. Do you think this backlash affected the Dreamcast?

BS: I don’t think there was a backlash at all. The Dreamcast was very well accepted. The consumer was thrilled that Sega was back with a great hardware system.

There are not enough s on the internet for this comment... why still lie about this, like 15 years after it happened (this interview is from 2009)?

[j_factor]

Here are some more cases of SCEA getting in the way of games releasing in North America, mostly for graphics reasons.

http://www.psu.com/forums/archive/in.../t-174432.html - SCEA refused to approve Battle Fantasia for PS3, which is why the game is X360 only in the US, while in Japan and Europe it was released on both PS3 and 360. The game is 2.5d, but must have run afoul somewhere else. This thread also points out something I'd forgotten -- SCEA didn't (doesn't?) allow games with Japanese-only voice acting, if you're having voices, the game must have English. Frustrating, but this was a hard restriction, no exceptions (for speech that is).

Bullshit. Ever play Yakuza 2?

http://www.the-magicbox.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=9745 - I'm sure you'll ignore this and pretend that "it's all speculation" or something, but sometimes, the simplest explanation for something is the correct one. The simplest explanation for why almost everyone who knows anything has said, since somewhere around 1995, that SCEA has had a longstanding problem with 2d game releases... well, it's because they did. Also, the source names there weren't mentioned, but that's to protect them; that information is all too accurate, everything else agrees that it's true. This thread also mentions how SCEA blocked Agetec from releasing Shadow Tower Abyss (PS2) because its graphics weren't good enough and they didn't think the game would sell, because of their stupidly backwards visions of the American market.

Yeah, that's also a bunch of crap. He claims "SCEA now rejects any 2D game out of hand." This was posted in 2004. How do you explain 2D games that came out that year on a Sony platform, such as Alien Hominid?

He also claims "Gameplay does not, in any way, enter into the process" and then in the same post quotes Agetec as saying "the nature of the gameplay" was a major factor in Shadow Tower: Abyss not getting a US release. Make up your mind, dude.

The 2D thing is just a misconception. The most successful of the PSX's launch games was Rayman. There was never a time when 2D games were not coming out for the PSX. Sony even published a few themselves. I think we would have heard screaming from the rooftops by Vic Ireland if he'd had any trouble releasing Lunar or Alundra.

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/06/29...3-development/ A publisher was considering releasing it, but Sony refused to allow Sakura Wars 1+2 certification for a US PSP release: "it's a text novel, not a game".

That's not consistent with reality. Sakura Wars 1+2 is no more a text novel than Sakura Wars V. Not to mention, there was a US PSP release of Metal Gear Solid: Digital Graphic Novel, which is actually not a game, so SCEA does not have a categorical disapproval of non-games.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3915174 - Vic Ireland can't specify (surely for legal reasons), but Sony made his publishing games on the PS2 nearly impossible, blocking many games, delaying Growlanser Generations for years, etc.

And yet he didn't have any problems until the PS2. He was fine in the PSX era.

The dispute with Growlanser was that Sony wanted the two bundled together, and Vic wanted to release them separately (at full price). Have you played Growlanser Generations? They definitely don't feel like individually full-price-worthy games. You can certainly argue that Sony should take a hands-off approach and let the gaming public be the judge of that, and I won't disagree. But if they're going to have significant oversight over what gets released, this particular case is not especially egregious, IMO. That Goemon game was rubbish, also.

By the way, there was no "many games" that were blocked. Vic Ireland was strictly focused on Growlanser and Goemon. When he had trouble with those, he didn't branch out to other games. He didn't try anything else. He just stuck to his guns and kept trying to get those games released. There were plenty of other Japanese PS2 games that would've likely had no objections from SCEA. Not to mention, if Sony are such tyrants, there were lots of opportunities on Xbox, Gamecube, and GBA. But Vic wasn't having any of it. He was an idiot.

[sheath]

Is Yakuza 2 subtitled with Japanese voice acting? I might need to give that one a shot afterall then. I couldn't stand the original because of the constant uncreative would-be-edgy profanity.

[A Black Falcon]

Bullshit. Ever play Yakuza 2?

I don't know how Sega managed to convince SCEA to allow them to release that thing without English voice work, but it's surely because the game is a 2008 release, and thus released long after the PS3. SCEA DEFINTELY had that restriction on their systems during those systems' main lives (ie, before their successors came out). There is no question about this whatsoever. Lots of proof.

Yeah, that's also a bunch of crap. He claims "SCEA now rejects any 2D game out of hand." This was posted in 2004. How do you explain 2D games that came out that year on a Sony platform, such as Alien Hominid?

He also claims "Gameplay does not, in any way, enter into the process" and then in the same post quotes Agetec as saying "the nature of the gameplay" was a major factor in Shadow Tower: Abyss not getting a US release. Make up your mind, dude.

I think the guy was slightly exaggerating because of how angry he was, but the core of the complaint is accurate and valid.

The 2D thing is just a misconception. The most successful of the PSX's launch games was Rayman. There was never a time when 2D games were not coming out for the PSX. Sony even published a few themselves. I think we would have heard screaming from the rooftops by Vic Ireland if he'd had any trouble releasing Lunar or Alundra.

No, the anti-2d thing is a reality. Sony did publish two 2d games in 1995, but did they publish even one more after that, for PS1 or PS2? I can't think of anything. But sure, they did allow a few 2d games here and there. I don't know why you people can't understand that Sony's internal bias agaisnt 2d existed, regardless of what games they could be convinced to approve. I haven't seen even ONE SINGLE QUOTE FROM ANYONE saying that Sony actually wasn't biased against 2d. I mean, quotes from people who would know. Nothing. Everything I have seen says that they were biased against 2d, all of it.

Can you find any proof whatsoever that Sony actually wasn't biased against 2d? It'll be difficult though, since no such proof exists. And no, the list of released games is NOT proof.

Also, I have said that clearly Sony's anti-2d policies got even stricter after the PS2 released, versus what they had been on PS1.

That's not consistent with reality. Sakura Wars 1+2 is no more a text novel than Sakura Wars V.

Sure, but that's apparently what Sony said. And remember that Sakura Wars V released in 2010 for the PS2. Very, very late release. I can understand why SCEA would be more forgiving on an extremely late PS2 release than they would a main-lifespan PSP game, that fits their standard way of doing things. And it did have full English voices.

Not to mention, there was a US PSP release of Metal Gear Solid: Digital Graphic Novel, which is actually not a game, so SCEA does not have a categorical disapproval of non-games.

That was MGS though. Konami has leverage.

And yet he didn't have any problems until the PS2. He was fine in the PSX era.

The dispute with Growlanser was that Sony wanted the two bundled together, and Vic wanted to release them separately (at full price). Have you played Growlanser Generations? They definitely don't feel like individually full-price-worthy games.

Yes they do (and I own Growlanser Generations).

On another Growlanser note, Growlanser (4): Wayfarer of Time for PSP is probably my #1 favorite PSP game. Amazing, amazing game.

You can certainly argue that Sony should take a hands-off approach and let the gaming public be the judge of that, and I won't disagree. But if they're going to have significant oversight over what gets released, this particular case is not especially egregious, IMO. That Goemon game was rubbish, also.

Vic spent years improving the game and making it significantly better, but SCEA didn't care and blocked it from release anyway. They use backwards, anti-2d, anti-"too Japanese", anti-port on PSP (games must be 30% original to get approved!), etc. metrics for game releases. Some games that break these rules do get approved here and there, but that shows how third parties are willing to fight for games they really want to release, even against SCEA's opposition, and that sometimes they win and get approval for things. Other times, like with Goemon or Shadow Tower Abyss on the PS2, they lose and the releases are blocked. Blocking niche games from release just because they are niche is a horrible, horrible thing, but it has always been standard SCEA policy.

By the way, there was no "many games" that were blocked. Vic Ireland was strictly focused on Growlanser and Goemon. When he had trouble with those, he didn't branch out to other games. He didn't try anything else. He just stuck to his guns and kept trying to get those games released. There were plenty of other Japanese PS2 games that would've likely had no objections from SCEA.

I think he was implying that there were some other games he had an interest in that they said 'no way' to.

Not to mention, if Sony are such tyrants, there were lots of opportunities on Xbox, Gamecube, and GBA. But Vic wasn't having any of it. He was an idiot.

I didn't quote that in my post there, but did mention this earlier in the thread I think: Vic has agreed with this on NeoGAF. He said that being so loyal to Sony was a big mistake and that was why WD went out of business. He also said that he had some opportunities to do stuff for the Xbox (original Xbox, I believe), but passed on them to stick with Sony, something he now would not do.