Which Genesis 2?

[MaxWar]

I do not like my VA7 because as said, it will not work in Pal mode and I found that even when equipped with an audio Mod like a CCAM the output is still noisier than model 2 consoles. It is apparently VDP noise, I do not know if there is a way to isolate the audio from this annoying noise but shielding the mod circuit did nothing. At this point this console is not desirable to me.

[lumclaw]

I disagree, the early model 1 genesis and 1.10 model sega cd sound best from all my engineering tests. Model 2's are cheaper (quality), more filtered shits. Cdx and nomad are smaller revision boards of even those shit revisions.

Could be, I'm not aware of that. We don't have a guide about sega cd sound quality.

My post didn't even mention the genesis 2.

[Vector2013]

Could be, I'm not aware of that. We don't have a guide about sega cd sound quality.

My post didn't even mention the genesis 2.

No but it mentioned model 2 sega cd's and I was clumping the model 2's (genesis, sega cd) as shit compared to originals.

lumclaw
In actual game use the ultimate stock setup is model 1 high-def /w model 2 Sega CD.

There is not a guide, but much discussion on genesis m1 va2 + sega cd m1 v1.10 hook up and how it sounds best overall (volume control for carts). Yes by itself the g m1 va2 sounds "fat" like 8 bit digital sound with more bass, but connecting sega cd m1 1.10 makes it sound with more treble and only slight bass loss. (In other words it's more hi fidelity) while hooking a model 2 sega cd to m1 genesis or m2 genesis will have a more filtered (because it is) sound quality. Like I said I can hear it in sound engineering tests. Also it's common sense as the model 2's were built as cheaper (chips) and smaller (filters) which compresses audio a bit. Check Sega CD section or pm KoolKitty or Chilly for more details. I think the Cdx and Nomad have same "cheaper smaller filtered" boards like model 2's, which imo isn't good (for audio). Japan produced a nice board for g m1 va2 while model 2's were made with cheap as can get parts and made in Taiwan and other places other than Japan so production was probablly shittier too as they were somewhat new tech with cheap caps and what not.

[lumclaw]

Why waste the production cost adding a filter? cd audio is a well defined industry standard.

[Vector2013]

The cheaper caps used (audio filtering). Revision$ are just cheaper smaller board$. It wasn't production co$t loss, it was a gain. All the models had caps filters but the more revisions, the shittier it got (tone control). I think using the later cheaper made caps in places like Korea and Taiwan instead of Japan production and parts had something to do with it. Sega also tried to cover up of noise or frequency problems too. But it was worse. I'm sure more technical people here can answer in more detail.

CD vg media use was in it's infancy in 1991. Just to let you know, cd's after 1995 (some before) are shit. Look into "loudness wars", it affected cds and devices. Luckily the model 1 cd didn't suffer. Sega CD isn't just a regular cd player, it requires Genesis data and hardware to operate. But the later the model, the shittier it becomes (in past 50 years of technology usually). Like 3 revisions are fine to fix bugs, but the Genesis/Sega CD had what, 15 revisions officially ? 8 Model 1 revisions, 4 or more 2's, cdx, nomad, x eye and more.

Edit. I will explain a bit more, caps generally last 3 to 5 years. However more expen$ive devices or revisions use better parts. They are used for many things. For power supplies they will "drain or pop" over time. They get corrupt for audio filters too. The fact my genesis m 1 va2 + sega cd m1 1.1 still sound superb after 20 years is because I maintain them, I got lucky they last and sound very good even now. You could have a sega cd m2 and if it's caps are good but mine "bad" yours will sound better. Or if a sound engineer uses model 2 to make game soundtrack it might sound better than on model 1 because of tones (or loudness issues). But generally a genesis m1 va2 + sega cd m1 1.1 sounds best if your caps/filters are good. If your into analog-LIKE sound, just use genesis headphone jack, it has a bit more bass but using sega cd the treble is better and bass lower which I like. However the guy in post 9 likes the more bass song of just headphone jack. http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...of-the-Sega-CD The JVC and Sony parts in sega cd m1 and the fact Japan made it in 1992 or so is good imo. Emulation is NEEDED, these machines won't last 100 more years and clones are a disgrace now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

[lumclaw]

Well let's not go further about that. Might spiral into all kinds of debates to distract from our goal at hand.

[Blades]

CD vg media use was in it's infancy in 1991. Just to let you know, cd's after 1995 (some before) are shit. Look into "loudness wars", it affected cds and devices. Luckily the model 1 cd didn't suffer. Sega CD isn't just a regular cd player, it requires Genesis data and hardware to operate. But the later the model, the shittier it becomes (in past 50 years of technology usually). Like 3 revisions are fine to fix bugs, but the Genesis/Sega CD had what, 15 revisions officially ? 8 Model 1 revisions, 4 or more 2's, cdx, nomad, x eye and more.

Mother of all blanket statements.

Compression isn't anything new, it was around long before CDs even existed. I have no idea how you think devices are "affected". Don't post misinformation.

[Vector2013]

When did I say compression started with CD's ? I said (CD) Loudness War when discussing cd's. Some devices were set to + 3 to + 6 by default instead of -3 or 0 db by default (amps, car players for one, affected by default db loudness settings, see below). CD quality after 1995 is shit because sound engineers were told to do something they were taught not to do, increase the overall db by + 3 to + 6 or MORE (20 db) on the new master recordings of CD's.

"The level of compact discs went up about 20 decibels in 20 years," observed Bob Katz, chief mastering engineer of Digital Domain, a sound studio in Florida."

Look up what he and others have to say about dynamic range decreasing but mastering becoming louder.



Devices such as Philip cd recorders had too loud of an output and have many complaints of it's rca out (compared to previous model, that is one I'm aware of because I tested it). It was + 3 louder and a bit more distorted than 765 model. Listen to CD from 1985 on a 1985 Pioneer then a 2013 CD on a 2013 run of a current mill cd player. Devices now and some CD's now a days are SHIT and have less frequency dynamic than past and are LOUD. It's also a practice in broadcasting and some devices volumes are set louder (again car players). Actual professional audio equipment now is like of past (Technic), however low end models are more loud and so are cd's.

If you want to discuss this more, pm me don't ruin the thread. And if you pm me then back what you are saying up like I did HERE and let us see who is typing misinformation. Actually reading what I said helps too. But don't accuse me of misinformation when I know what I'm talking about as a sound engineer who had a fuckload of various equipment over 20 years and who actually tests this shit. I also tested the cd's, and it's true. Here are complaints about devices.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-mu...ir-design.html
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thread...o-loud.138192/

"Many folks have reported less than satisfactory results with various inline attenuators. Some say that they adversely affect sound quality, probably due to lesser quality resistors."

"That said, if the CD player's output is 15 to 25 dB too high, then overly loudly mastered CDs is not the only problem. When using an in-line resistive attenuator, it is best placed at the preamp end of the cable so the low impedance line drivers in the CD player can drive the cable."

"asap audio
Gear maniac


Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 256


I've been in radio for 30 years - yep, spliced a lot of tape.

Radio station production directors will adjust the volume of your file for the parameters of their digital playback system. We peak ours at 0 dbu.
So, as long as you don't digitally clip your commercial, we'll adjust the final
level on our end.

No decent station is just going to rip it in to their system without checking/adjusting levels.

My experience is that with today's radio processing, the less you compress and hard limit, the better and louder your spot will sound, because were going to crush it.....again.

Nothing wrong with some good tasteful limiting, but be careful with compression.
Some US broadcast stations do 25db of compression!!!

EQ is important. High Pass everything 30hz and below.
Do a little 2db dip from 200-400hz. And a nice +2db shelf from 2k to 12k.
The voice-over will pop."

Yeah popping affects devices like, professional speakers.

[Vector2013]

Well let's not go further about that. Might spiral into all kinds of debates to distract from our goal at hand.

Too late

[MaxWar]

LoL, I perfectly know what you mean with the Loudness war, I myself made some mixing mastering work ( on amateur level ) but I still got confronted to this insane trend. Everyone nowadays strive to sound louder than the next one and we are losing the dynamic range in recordings for the mere sake of sounding louder than the next guy.
It will end up like the story of the easter Island where everyone wanted to build a bigger statue than the one before and in the end everyone died lol.

Yet I still dont quite understand how you got there from talking about genesis console revisions?

[MaxWar]

lulz

[Vector2013]

LoL, I perfectly know what you mean with the Loudness war, I myself made some mixing mastering work ( on amateur level ) but I still got confronted to this insane trend. Everyone nowadays strive to sound louder than the next one and we are losing the dynamic range in recordings for the mere sake of sounding louder than the next guy.
It will end up like the story of the easter Island where everyone wanted to build a bigger statue than the one before and in the end everyone died lol.

Good I'm glad you know what I'm talking about. That graph perfectly backs up what I said.

Yet I still dont quite understand how you got there from talking about genesis console revisions?

Because of this.

Why waste the production cost adding a filter? cd audio is a well defined industry standard.

In 1991 most cd's still had dynamic range (not loud as fuck) and playing 80's cd's (which sounded better imo) on my m1 Sega cd (made good like sony cd players and others ah 1991 Japan products) was good (better than playing it off a Philips in 1999 with a loud as fuck 1999 Californication cd). I'm glad Sega cd rca out sounds better than my 1999 Philips rca out. Then I proceeded to discuss loudness war of cd's and the shit quality of products (revisions at one time were totally better at everything than previous once, but 90s to now it's all $ make it cheaper smaller and louder). But was saying Sega CD is more than just a cd player, it was infancy of vg cd media basically. Discussed music equipment makers like JVC which brought to mind Philips (cd-i) then their cd players later (downgrade in quality, then wanted to mention downgrade in cd's). WHICH IS A FACT, MOST CD'S AFTER 1995 ARE SHIT. Then got back into vg aspect of revisions and explained the cheaper parts (caps) and locations and Sega making more of a profit on smaller boards/revisions was an issue. Some games made on Genesis 2 at studio are loud on model 1 because of filter difference. I believe the new rom posted discusses this. Discussed caps/filters to person in more detail. Basically I was ranting on quality of things, they got worse. Model 2 shit sound than model 1, cd's are too loud and are shit because dynamic range is drowned.

[Drakon]

I said it a million times but you are curious so I'll repeat it, imo the best stock sounding model 1 I have is the va2 revision. You can almost directly pinpoint a va2 or va5, va6 or w/e by serial number. Va 6.8/7 are obvious, no "high def graphics" logo and no rear ext so sound is shit but video great. Unless you mod. Drakon, I have a va7, want to buy it so you can mod it, even if it's for another member ?

Sorry I already have two va7s from a member on my forum. People practically give va7s away I got two super clean and fully tested va7s for 10$ each plus shipping. He was even nice enough to test that 32x, scd and the headphone jack all work normally first. I already full modded up one and it's currently the system I use.

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...odel-1-Genesis

[Vector2013]

Sorry I already have two va7s from a member on my forum. People practically give va7s away I got two super clean and fully tested va7s for 10$ each plus shipping. He was even nice enough to test that 32x, scd and the headphone jack all work normally first. I already full modded up one and it's currently the system I use.

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...odel-1-Genesis

Ha I hear you. Okay no problem.

[retromangia]

Wow, such great information Vector... I had no idea that older CD's sounded better than newer CD's... but everything you say makes perfect sense. They want to cut cost on newer boards, so they use cheaper parts.. thank you!

ok, so basically I want to use one of the older Genesis Model 1 va2 - va5... these will have great sound, but not so great video..

what if I was to throw a 32X on top of that.. would that help make the video better?

Can i have the best of both worlds?

thanks guys!