Great essay on RPG games

[Jeckidy]

Serves them right. This guy is pretty right on:
http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_role-playing_games/

[Drakon]

Needs pictures.

[KitsuneNight]

essay ?
seems more like a rant

[Jeckidy]

While some think its unnecessary to argue for what they like, if I was asked to advocate the genre, the only worthwhile argument for RPGs I can think of goes like this:

Many advocates will often cite certain factors as high-points for playing RPGs (such as story, gameplay, etc.) that I believe are generally more wholly satisfied in other media. For example, the plots often pale in comparison to those found in books, manga, film, even other video games nowadays. Even superficial gameplay that is supposedly 'strategic', which is easily bested in games like Carnage Heart, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, etc.
However, I see games as often being like music. Sometimes it doesn't have to be high-quality to be entertaining. We play platformers that are mindlessly easy and enjoy them, or watch kung-fu movies that are cheesy but fun for what they are. Some people are in the mood for fast music or slow music, or something inbetween. So the fact that these games aren't really as heavy on their respective content as other media doesn't mean they can't be appropriate diversions for certain times. But to try and champion them as being greater in said fields than they really are is delusional.

[Drakon]

I don't see the point in arguing with people who're bitter. I usually just go find people who have better things to do than to hate on stuff.

[Jeckidy]

I don't see the point in arguing with people who're bitter. I usually just go find people who have better things to do than to hate on stuff.

And that's not such a bad thing, really.

[KitsuneNight]

but its not even an argument
its just an overlong self absorbed self important rant as to why jrpg's suck ( and computer rpgs are stuck in rut and not really rpg at all )

the only part i agree with ( or care much about in that long winded rant ) is that cutscenes are anathema to an rpg and that jrpgs for all effects are stuck in a rut and nothing more then cutscene infested grind fests

but other then that that "essay-rant" 's views of rpgs and mine differ and i see no point in arguing further over it

the insomnia title was well chosen though

[Kamahl]

I actually agree with most of the rant, if you go by the Role-Playing Game = DND angle. But he got something very wrong. Although DND players have lots of freedom, the Game Master can completely dictate the entire story, the ending can always be the same regardless of player decisions (besides losing). There's no reason why a computer game can't give you this kind of fake freedom (*cough*mass effect*cough).

[Armoured Priest]

I actually agree with most of the rant, if you go by the Role-Playing Game = DND angle. But he got something very wrong. Although DND players have lots of freedom, the Game Master can completely dictate the entire story, the ending can always be the same regardless of player decisions (besides losing). There's no reason why a computer game can't give you this kind of fake freedom (*cough*mass effect*cough).

There's also the fact that sometimes you get a DM you'll railroad you so hard, you'd feel like you have more player agency in Final Fantasy XIII (where at least you get to set up youir combat stratagies).

Just because in theory PnP role-playing can give you more freedom, it doesn't automatically follow that it does.


Even good DMs are often working off of a comparitively small outline, they are just better able to adapt if they get thrown for a loop by the players (which happens less if you know your players)

In the campaigns I run, for example, I know to plan for my players to try to physically break things (buildings, magic items, physical macguffins, ect). Doesn't meen they always do that (i'm guilty of it as well when I get to be a player)...but they do it often enough that I know to keep it in my mind.

[Jeckidy]

Getting to understand japanese better, it's really interesting to find out what japanese gamers really think and that their views are not that much different than ours, most of the time. For one, there are plenty of them that dislike the RPG genre period for similar reasons as many western detractors. Same pet peeves about poor narrarative, characters who can't be empathized with, various cliches in traditional RPG mechanics and most of all, bad voice acting. The latter is something you could only know by being aquainted with the emotional nuances of the language and culture itself. So really, it's out of ignorance that many think the japanese are better voice actors. Usually the good ones are reserved for big-budget production like Kingdom Hearts. Learn a bit of the language, then browse japanese forums, blogs, articles etc. and see that it is all very true. Sure, traditional JRPGs have a big following still, but it's no different than Call of Duty. Not everyone likes it, but there is a cultural leaning to embrace a certain genre more than another, simply enough. It's not all that they play. Even fans of FPSes stateside usually play other genres including retro 8-bitters and japan is no different. I'd love to take the time to translate alot of these comments from different sources, but I don't know where to begin. If you think all Japanese really despise FPSes, look at Famitsu's glaring praise of Halo. Of course the lack of popularity of the genre in Japan currently is much akin to how JRPGs were viewed in the mainstream over here in the US before their post-FF7 boom. I'm sure they'll pick up and find a vogue, even if its just for a while.

[midnightrider]

^There's a couple points in there I've observed for a while(one only recently though).

1) I've had the argument "If you can't understand it, how do you know the voice acting is good?" To which you get the usual "They take it so much more seriously." So yeah, there's definitely Japanophile ignorance involved in there.

2) Yuji Hori, creator of Dragon Quest, is supposed to be synonymous with "video games" in Japan. ~17 million SNES's were sold in Japan. 3.2 million copies of Dragon Quest VI were sold, as the highest selling RPG on the console. You would figure if the genre was that popular, it would have sold as well, if not better than the graphics whoring DKC did here. III sold .6 million more than VI, as the most successful game in the series, and the NES was most likely more dominant in Japan than the SNES was.

[Jeckidy]

They only discontinued the Famicom in 2003. That shows you how well loved it was.

There are definately certain nuances behind these games that makes them more appealing to Japanese. Stuff that is made with their sense of humor being the most obvious. But even there they are critical of their own games as much as any culture. Among the piles of RPGs available, many are shunned and admitted to being too 'cookie-cutter'. When you take note of how many JRPGs exist in their market and how many were brought over here, you can kind of understand why the games we do know managed to get picked up for localization at all. There are some popular series in Japan that are almost as bad as Madden for rehashing the same content over and over in each iteration such as the Momotarou Dentetsu games. Playing Atelier Marie for Sega Saturn recently is an example. This game is part of the Atelier Alchemist series which was only localized fairly recently by Nippon Ichi. The first was ported to practically every platform at the time so that you couldn't get away from it. The sequels are pretty much the same thing, and sometimes better. The concept of mixing items and finishing school assignments was original but the newer ones have sort of bested the earlier ones. For instance, I find the battle system of the first game to be very inane like most 8-bit RPGs. Regarding the mechanics, sounds like the case with *ahem* GTA.

Also, considering how mainstream they are and also how easy RPGs are with enough patience to simply grind through every game, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the hardcore japanese gamers view it on par with western stuff like FarmVille. I haven't really gotten a good look at the consensus on that though, so don't quote me on it.

[KitsuneNight]

^and the moment you saud with enough patience you can grind your way through a game my mind turned off

and i would turn the game off too where is the fun in having to grind ?

grinding is not fun its a tedious repition of the same damn task over and over and over again designed to stretch out the game as long as possible

[midnightrider]

Heh, I mean I know what site I'm linking here, but still...:
http://kotaku.com/the-20-jrpgs-you-must-play-1222229344

"Quintet released a handful of actiony RPGs for Nintendo systems. Many are very good—ActRaiser, Soul Blazer, Terranigma—but the highlight is Illusion of Gaia"

I know there are opinions, but in the same sentence that listed Terranigma, Illusion of Gaia is the highlight(and ActRaiser is an RPG?)? Only issue with Terranigma is the late game grinding, but this was a good game that took a lot of people by surprise when emulation came about, since it was never released in North America. This next one is a real beaut though.

"Back in the 90s, when Final Fantasy had exploded and JRPGs were almost as ubiquitous as first-person shooters are today, Sega offered up their own take: Phantasy Star, a sci-fi epic that would be to Star Wars what Dragon Quest was to Lord of the Rings"

You want to talk about revisionist history... There's a commenter that believes it too... The games were released 2 days apart in Japan(FF first...by 2 days...) and Phantasy Star is a Final Fantasy knock off? RPG's were not only popular, but almost as widespread as FPS's nowadays? The original Final Fantasy being the reason for it? I mean, if one is going to fancy themselves a journalist, shouldn't a prerequisite be doing research?