Sellers of disc-based games on eBay suck.

[Blades]

My thought exactly when I read the linked article. Disk rot? Most I have come across came from homes where brat kids walked on them as they lay strewn on the bedroom floor. The plastic resin they make CD/DVD discs from cannot oxidize or otherwise 'rot'. The only thing that causes plastics to break down is excessive heat or direct UV rays from the sun. Metals oxidize. Wood and papers rot. Plastics do not.

Isn't the reflective layer made of aluminum?

[tz101]

I believe that to be correct.

The fallacy with that theory, though, is that in order for any metal, aluminum or otherwise, to oxidize, oxygen must be present. Inside the sealed plastic layers of the CD/DVD disc, there is no oxygen present, so no 'disk rot' can occur.

[Guntz]

Bit rot seems to be a buzzword these days. It's like a catch-all term dumb people use to describe non-working electronics of any kind.

[Ninsega]

I believe that to be correct.

The fallacy with that theory, though, is that in order for any metal, aluminum or otherwise, to oxidize, oxygen must be present. Inside the sealed plastic layers of the CD/DVD disc, there is no oxygen present, so no 'disk rot' can occur.

So you honestly believe it to be impossible for that layer to have pieces "flake off"?

As for the current situation, of course a scratch isn't disc rot, but both have the same effect: rendering discs useless.

[sheath]

I believe that to be correct.

The fallacy with that theory, though, is that in order for any metal, aluminum or otherwise, to oxidize, oxygen must be present. Inside the sealed plastic layers of the CD/DVD disc, there is no oxygen present, so no 'disk rot' can occur.

Yeah, it wasn't oxidation that was supposed to cause discs to "rot" in the first place. The simple passing of the laser across the disc or time alone will cause it to happen faster than the properties of the metal in general. We aren't talking about the metal turning into carbon or disintegrating, it just has to lose the properties necessary to hold all of those 0s and 1s properly. 20-30 years is all that takes.

[Zz Badnusty]

Bit rot seems to be a buzzword these days. It's like a catch-all term dumb people use to describe non-working electronics of any kind.

Yes.

[Ninsega]

AgentBurnwood from Racketboy said it best-

^Seems the above posters are fairly fortunate- hopefully. While I've been aware of it, the issue of bit rot is something that I used to be unconcerned with, right up until the day Metal Slug X for the PS1 suddenly stopped working on me mid game. Taking out the disc revealed no scratches or anything immediately obvious, but a quick check online lead me to look for any signs of bit rot, and sure enough, there was a small white-ish bit rot mark that I would have been oblivious to had I not known what to look for. I had purchased that game new when it came out at Funcoland almost a decade before, and finding bit rot develop on it was a changing moment for me as a collector and gamer. I do check for bit rot on any discs I buy in person (online purchases are almost impossible to check) now, and have been amazed at what I've found.

As the comments on the linked to article indicate, there doesn't seem to be any consistency as to how bit rot strikes. I have old music CD's from the 80's and PC CD's from the early 90's that still work great and have no bit rot, but have had to sell off several Dreamcast and XBOX games that developed bit rot. The reverse has also been true for me, but then again I check everything on a (usually) monthly basis. I've even seen one Blu-Ray (a friend's copy of Talladega Nights) with early bit rot. I have decided against purchasing more than a few DVD's and CD-based games because I found bit rot on them, and have held off on purchasing all but a few sealed disc-based games because of the risk of bit rot. Sealed games aren't immune to this, and there isn't any way to even be sure without opening them, as I found out with a sealed disc copy of TIE Fighter I once picked up locally. While the Sega Saturn and Dreamcast seem to be much more likely candidates than other systems to have their games at risk of bit rot (judging from personal experience and from the comments on the article), all systems with disc-based games are at risk.

Don't dismiss the risk of bit rot- from what I've seen this could be one of, if not the, biggest threats to retrogamers- gamers, collectors, and sellers all.

http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewt...p?f=44&t=32121

And the whole point of me supplying the article is to point out that permanent damage can be done to the disc if anything goes wrong with the top layer, it has nothing to do with the bit rot/disc rot part of it. But you guys insisting that it doesn't exist proves you all have an agenda, one that is made all too clear.

[Bibin]

And the whole point of me supplying the article is to point out that permanent damage can be done to the disc if anything goes wrong with the top layer, it has nothing to do with the bit rot/disc rot part of it. But you guys insisting that it doesn't exist proves you all have an agenda, one that is made all too clear.

I think everyone is just clarifying that those holes in the top layer occur typically from damage, and that actual disc rotting manifests itself less often and in a different form. I don't think anyone is saying it does note exist, and as for an agenda, are you off your rocker?

[Ninsega]

I don't think anyone is saying it does note exist, and as for an agenda, are you off your rocker?

A lot of guys on these sites tend to use rare/hard-to-find games as "security deposits", so anything threatening their value needs to be toned down/dismissed as to not upset them.

[sheath]

Yeah, the inevitable failure of all of these things has me watching the market price for games and hardware pretty closely. At some point it will get too sweet for me to avoid selling all but my most nostalgic games and consoles. Or it will all sink to nothing and I'll keep it rather than taking a loss selling it. The later should mean that I waited too long though.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

AgentBurnwood from Racketboy said it best-



http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewt...p?f=44&t=32121

And the whole point of me supplying the article is to point out that permanent damage can be done to the disc if anything goes wrong with the top layer, it has nothing to do with the bit rot/disc rot part of it. But you guys insisting that it doesn't exist proves you all have an agenda, one that is made all too clear.

No one is saying top damage won't cause problems. We are simply pointing out that it's most likely not a form of Disc Rot. All I'm adding to that is that a few pin holes probably isn't going to cause much of a problem. My Megaman 8 Disc has quite a few pin hole specs, but it plays perfectly. One FMV skips on my Saturn, but on my PC through SSF it plays perfectly. So I'm more inclined to believe that's linked to the scratch on the underside and not the pin hole specs. If it was top damage related, my PC wouldn't be able to read it either.

As I stated before CD's are designed to take a little bit of a beating, they have error correction algorithms worked into them and I think I might have read about there being redundant data to prevent errors further. Basically the amount of top damage to cause a problem will more than likely cause the disc to flat out not boot.

A lot of guys on these sites tend to use rare/hard-to-find games as "security deposits", so anything threatening their value needs to be toned down/dismissed as to not upset them.

It has nothing to do with that. We're simply pointing out that in some cases it doesn't cause a problem, and that it's not a form of Disc Rot.

EDIT:

Just to further drive this home, I just ripped my Megaman 8 Disc to my computer. I then downloaded an ISO, mounted it through daemon tools, and ripped the files off of it. I did an overall compare and all the files are accounted for. Further more all the file sizes match up correctly. Finally I opened up all the FMVs (the largest files most likely to be affected by possibly missing data) in HexWorkshop and compared them to the FMVs from the downloaded ISO. The files matched up 100% at the bit level, meaning absolutely no missing data whatsoever. I also compared other files and got the same results. I haven't compared every file yet, but I expect I'll see the same thing.

In short, those Pinholes have had absolutely no effect on the data on my Megaman 8 disc, yet it has enough that according to that guide it should be missing tons of data. Tiny Pinholes most likely are not going to have a detrimental effect on your game's data. Now if you have huge hunks of damage, then you should worry.

[Ninsega]

I am quite aware that hairline/pinhole/etc. scratches on the important surface of a disc is not 'disc rot'. I posted that article to point out that damage of any kind to the important surface results in a permanently-damaged disc. Stating that it 'doesn't cause a problem in some cases' is a moot point when money is on the line. If you have irreparable shit, please do not bother clogging up a marketplace with it, otherwise you are going to have pissed off customers like moi.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Read my edit above. My Megaman 8 disc has tons of pinholes in it, yet there's no data missing and it's definitely not irreparable shit. It's only functional problem is a scratch causing an FMV to skip, which as you mentioned earlier can be repaired. It's just not mint condition.

[Ninsega]

Read my edit above. My Megaman 8 disc has tons of pinholes in it, yet there's no data missing and it's definitely not irreparable shit. It's only functional problem is a scratch causing an FMV to skip, which as you mentioned earlier can be repaired. It's just not mint condition.

That's great, now will you bother mentioning that in a listing if you ever decide to sell it? Or will you completely avoid noting that because it works perfectly for you?

[TrekkiesUnite118]

That's great, now will you bother mentioning that in a listing if you ever decide to sell it? Or will you completely avoid noting that because it works perfectly for you?

If it works perfectly for me, it's going to work perfectly for you. CD's don't care who's using them, they just store data after all.

I'd probably list it as a used copy in fair to average condition, which is accurate.