PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

[Yharnamresident]

I'm waiting for the measurements on the games you promised, SF, SC, Test Drive 6 etc put some images of games to break this sequence of texts.

Its hard bro, where I live right now is insanely bad for getting sick. Its this townhouse neighbourhood located in a very high altitude. I gotta Vitamin D supplements even in summer.

Also is SC=Soul Caliber? I posted it years ago but it was my outdated format.

[Yharnamresident]

Also I just posted this:

So I looked at what might be Sega's version of Street Fighter II. This game was a insane commercial and critical success.

Remember this is on Naomi 2.



Yes these graphics are insane for 2001. The guy has the polygons of some entire DC/PS2 early games.



I don't know why I'm fighting the same guy but thats how it was.



Yes it has polycounts of a GC/Xbox game.



This Han lady was pretty tough but I finally managed to beat her.

[SegaAMD]

the polygons in RE4 shouldn't be taken seriously, I think this could be a mistake. I mean in the PC version a user captured a scene and measured the polygon count and found something like 64,000 polygons on the Frame the same scene was measured on the ps2 and it was about 20,000... Can you understand that? the devs can do culling so the count doesn't mean the count. One more example in TriggerHeart Exellica considered to be one of the only Dreamcast games to reach 3M pps, that is 50k in the frame at 60fps, in a certain scene someone edited it and it gave something like 44,000 then measured the ps2 version in exactly the same place and it only gave 8K, the scene was absolutely identical. Here's the data, see how much they can do culling

[Yharnamresident]

the polygons in RE4 shouldn't be taken seriously, I think this could be a mistake. I mean in the PC version a user captured a scene and measured the polygon count and found something like 64,000 polygons on the Frame the same scene was measured on the ps2 and it was about 20,000... Can you understand that? the devs can do culling so the count doesn't mean the count. One more example in TriggerHeart Exellica considered to be one of the only Dreamcast games to reach 3M pps, that is 50k in the frame at 60fps, in a certain scene someone edited it and it gave something like 44,000 then measured the ps2 version in exactly the same place and it only gave 8K, the scene was absolutely identical. Here's the data, see how much they can do culling

Some games glitch out the PS2 emulator and Triggerheart is one of them. Thats the reason I don't post the PS2 version of Test Drive Le Mans, says its running at 2000 polygons at 30 FPS like a PS1 game.

[Yharnamresident]

Anyways I will start working on a big post, should be done today if you are in my time zone.

[SegaAMD]

Some games glitch out the PS2 emulator and Triggerheart is one of them. Thats the reason I don't post the PS2 version of Test Drive Le Mans, says its running at 2000 polygons at 30 FPS like a PS1 game.

yeh, but culling is real devs do it all the time on ps2 in most games. Of course, the community extracted the assets from the gamecube and ps2 version, GC its really like twice as much as the PS2 version - despite the 33% reduction in pixels -. But we cannot take seriously a measure of 16k, 20k 30k polygons per scene in that game, considering that only the two characters together in ps2 10k. this is Dev doing culling.

[gamevet]

Its not as close to the PS2 as the 360 is to the PS3, but a bit closer than the PS2 compared to OG Xbox.

Or Gamecube. That was a powerful little box! Way more powerful than the PS2.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

.
My claim or yours trekkies?

It's your claim. You said it multiple times in this thread and other threads as well as on your site. It's the entire reason you want your posts deleted. Just a few months ago you came into this thread saying it vinidicated your argument from years ago, and that argument was the 1 Million Polygons claim.

.You have been following Agostinho Barone's "full on retard" protocol since he decided he couldn't find a legitimate way to discredit what I wrote on Gamepilgrimage.

Gamepilgrimage discredits itself with it's poor research, extremely biased claims, and misrepresented facts for the sake of fanboyism.

Can't you see that? You probably can't, because you can't stop and admit a single mistake in your posts, and you cannot, ever, cite anything other than yourself.

I've literally cited actual game performance, dev manuals, etc. And when I'm proven wrong beyond any doubt I do admit I'm wrong. You've just never been able to actually do that.

You're all over the place with your posts, but all you ever cite is yourself. This is your biggest clue.

Are you arguing with me or yourself?

So let's look at my "bonkers" artical from 2001, edited in 2005 one more time shall we? It includes....
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/DCPScompare.htm
"As late as 2005, Capcom was forced to drop the polygon counts of the PS2 port of Resident Evil 4 from the Gamecube to between 900k to 1.5 million polygons per second, at 30 frames per second, while the Gamecube original ran at nearly twice this polygon count. This means that the entire generation of game consoles was relatively close to the Dreamcast's specs. This is in opposition to the idea, propagated by the media, that the PS2, Xbox and Gamecube's games were running 2-4 times the polygon counts of the Dreamcast's max specs. "

Lots of caveats there, but you can't be bothered to admit it.

The problem wasn't the "caveats". It was you pointing to your own blog posts as factual evidence that the entire generation was hovering around 1 million polygons per second over and over again in multiple arguments over the years. You'd pretend to admit you were wrong every now and then and claim to not make that argument again, but within a week you'd be in another Dreamcast console war making that same argument. And after an 8 year break from the forum you came back out of the blue to try and make some claim that you were right and this thread proved it.

You and your overlord posse crassly dismissed the Usenet source I used, which stated quite clearly the PS2 would nominally display two times the polygons on screen. It's in the same article, from before I even got my History degree:
You jumped up and down on this very forum in the Gen threads that this was wrong.

Because it's a random usenet post with nothing to back it up. It holds as much weight as a random post on 4chan.

Now you're waffling on that topic.

I'm not? I still say that usenet post is nonsense and isn't really saying anything of value. All I'm saying is that spec wise the PS2 is a fillrate powerhouse that relies on CPU power and a shitload of bus bandwidth to brute force it's way through most issues.

The original point, stated again here for all to read, was that the PS2 was not, and never was going to be, 10X, or 33X, or 66X as "powerful" as the Dreamcast. Good luck finding a benchmark that objectively maps 224 interpolated lines full of sparklers and polygons on top of polygons.

But the PS2 is more powerful than the Dreamcast. Sure there might be some hyperbole in those numbers you're listing but the fact is it is more powerful and the Dreamcast would have been at a serious disadvantage had it stuck around. That's not to say it couldn't have been competitive with good software, but it definitely would have started to show it's age and weaknesses sooner than the other systems.

I have stated since before the Internet turned into an idiotic tabloid

The only idiot tabloid being posted in this thread is gamepilgrimage.

[sheath]

Children of Rousseau, Hume, Hegel, Marx and Darwin have zero intellectual integrity. Exemplified by trolls like "trekkies".

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Children of Rousseau, Hume, Hegel, Marx and Darwin have zero intellectual integrity. Exemplified by trolls like "trekkies".

Can you please stop drunk posting on this forum?

[sheath]

Can you please stop drunk posting on this forum?

So here again, Agostinho Barone has been feeding you information from way back in 2012. Why he worked his way into my personal life I will never know, but you are definitely the gun.

The only issue I had back then was I was surrounded by assholes. I hope anybody in these groups take note.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

So here again, Agostinho Barone as been feeding you information from way back in 2012. Why he worked his way into my personal life I will never know, but you are definitely the gun.

The only issue I had back then was I was surrounded by assholes. I hope anybody in these groups take note.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I was just responding to the complete nonsensical replies and arguments you're making that seem to be more fueled by emotion than reason.

[Yharnamresident]

yeh, but culling is real devs do it all the time on ps2 in most games. Of course, the community extracted the assets from the gamecube and ps2 version, GC its really like twice as much as the PS2 version - despite the 33% reduction in pixels -. But we cannot take seriously a measure of 16k, 20k 30k polygons per scene in that game, considering that only the two characters together in ps2 10k. this is Dev doing culling.

Yes culling does exist, however a game like Test Drive Le Mans only runs at 900,000 PPS on Dreamcast. Theres absolutely no way the devs would do culling to make it run at PS1 polycounts.

Or Gamecube. That was a powerful little box! Way more powerful than the PS2.

Eh, I'm not sure. The power distance might be the same(Dreamcast vs PS2, PS2 vs GameCube).

See the thing is, the Dreamcast does have major hardware advantages over the PS2. Its the same with PS2 compared with GameCube if I remember. However with PS2 compared to OG Xbox, theres none.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Eh, I'm not sure. The power distance might be the same(Dreamcast vs PS2, PS2 vs GameCube).

See the thing is, the Dreamcast does have major hardware advantages over the PS2. Its the same with PS2 compared with GameCube if I remember. However with PS2 compared to OG Xbox, theres none.

From what I understand the big thing with PS2 vs Gamecube is that Gamecube has a more advanced GPU that lets it do a lot of things easily with less effort, but PS2 just has a ton of CPU power and bandwidth to just brute force it's way through a lot of things in the right hands. So in some scenarios there are things that the PS2 can do that the Gamecube would struggle with. Similar with the Dreamcast there are a few features it has that are better than the PS2, but the PS2 again can brute force it's way into a lot of things the Dreamcast would struggle with.

[Yharnamresident]

From what I understand the big thing with PS2 vs Gamecube is that Gamecube has a more advanced GPU that lets it do a lot of things easily with less effort, but PS2 just has a ton of CPU power and bandwidth to just brute force it's way through a lot of things in the right hands. So in some scenarios there are things that the PS2 can do that the Gamecube would struggle with. Similar with the Dreamcast there are a few features it has that are better than the PS2, but the PS2 again can brute force it's way into a lot of things the Dreamcast would struggle with.

Yes so the power distance is likely about the same. What you said makes a lot of sense because the GameCube and Dreamcast are both very well-balanced consoles, where as the PS2 was all about FLOPS and bandwidth.