Phil Spencer [new Xbox boss]: The biggest request is to bring back Shenmue

[EclecticGroove]

Shenmue sold well, but it would have had to sell more than one copy to every DC sold to recoup the costs. But a lot of the budget was supposedly for assets that could be used/reused in more than just the first game.

The 70M budget is a lot for one game, but when you consider that it may have rolled into 3-4+ games it starts looking much better.

As it stands, it's one of the best selling DC games out there... the problem is the DC itself ended too soon and the game not only couldn't have sales "legs" to continually gain more money, but the work on the assets for multiple games only made it to the second game (which had even less time to sell).

[Team Andromeda]

Shenmue sold well, but it would have had to sell more than one copy to every DC sold to recoup the costs. But a lot of the budget was supposedly for assets that could be used/reused in more than just the first game.

People are getting the $70 million figure a bit out of hand . That money covers the whole of the Shenmue project until the end of 1999. The DC version of Shenmue cost SEGA some $25 million dollars for just the Japanese version . The big trouble for Shenmue was that its sequel failed to sell well on both the DC and XBox and that's what killed the series really. Anytime a sequel sells much worse than it's prequel and doesn't make a profit means its all but had it

[KitsuneNight]

^ according to suzuki it was $47 million not 70

but shenmue 1 still had to be bought twice by every dc owner on the planet to be profitable
at least according to various websources

[Knuckle Duster]

Would not have helped.

Never know.

And the first Shenmue budget also helped fund the second, and likely would have helped the third had they actually made it. If the DC had sold well, and continued its life, and the series had continued, I don't think anyone would have mentioned the budget at all.

This is basically saying if Sega was successful, nobody would be criticizing their failure. The very reason the DC didn't continue it's life was their looming bankruptcy, not helped by a multi-generation tech demo being written and rewritten by a lead development team.

Shenmue didn't do much for them, but it's a victim of circumstances more than anything. What did Panzer Dragoon Saga do for Sega? Not much at all because it was released in the waning years of a system that they struggled with keeping relevant. It was critically praised, but it was no FF7 in terms of sales that's for sure.

Those games didn't cost Sega an insane amount of money up front. PDO was released on Xbox, to critical praise and weak sales. They killed Panzer Dragoon after 4 games in 2 generations. Not a bad run by Sega's record.

Had things gone differently for Sega and the Dreamcast that time and money would have been well spent. Shenmue could have been a whole series of games with a lot of praise. As it stands it is an expensive footnote that was meant to be more.

The toxic fanbase argument can be used for ANY fanbase of any company. Look at Nintendo's current situation, and look at the Sonic fanbase.

How things may or may not have gone differently isn't what I'm saying, and the fan base argument isn't an argument at all on my part. Though, Sonic fan base at least pays out and keeps Sega in the black, they can proactively or maliciously bitch all they want. There are toxic groups begging and making demands all over the place, I'm not denying that. I'm saying the Shenmue fan base is one of them, and it's a vocal minority that shits on every Sega press release with negativity and begging.

How much leverage has the rise of social media given to the beggars, when they dominate and spam everything? How much has New-Sega's brand image diminished, if even slightly because of the constant whining? It's probably negligible, but it's not helping anybody.

I'd label the Shenmue fanbase as simply deluded if they think they will ever see a continuation of the game in a form worth seeing it. They aren't going to spend the money to give it a sequel that measures up to the first 2 in relative production values and quality. I wouldn't be satisfied with a reskinned yakuza game with Shenmue related quests popped in for instance, it would need a lot more work to really "feel" like a Shenmue game.

I agree and at the same time, I don't care. Shenmue wasn't that big of a deal when it came out to the majority of gamers.

It was a too-expensive benchmark for cinematic and QTE driven game play in 3D action games. A noble highbrow art game concept which has slowly and absolutely poisoned the genre template and the industry for years to come.


I don't hate Shenmue. I just don't see why I should like it enough to jerk myself off in Sega's face each and every time they try to tell me about a new game.

[EclecticGroove]

The big trouble for Shenmue was that its sequel failed to sell well on both the DC and XBox and that's what killed the series really. Anytime a sequel sells much worse than it's prequel and doesn't make a profit means its all but had it

But at the same time... how could it have? The DC version was released essentially at the DC's deathbed. It was never released stateside, and the gaming population had generally judged the DC as dead and sat in wait for the PS2.

By the time the Xbox version came around, those who wanted Shenmue had largely gotten the DC version (legit or pirated). That left the Xbox version in a bit of a limbo. It would have been nice if it sold... but it wasn't going to happen. Any expectations that a port of a year old game from a dead system was going to sell millions on a brand new system from a newcomer in the console market were pipe dreams at best.

[Team Andromeda]

But at the same time... how could it have? The DC version was released essentially at the DC's deathbed.

Well that was part of the trouble, but it still flopped in Japan and Europe .

By the time the Xbox version came around, those who wanted Shenmue had largely gotten the DC version (legit or pirated)

I think most people just moved on and the fact that the XBox version looked basically like the DC version never helped matters . In the end the top brass with-in SEGA will just look at the sales of Shenmue 2 on two different systems and think to themselves its an IP not even worth going near, unless MS or SONY come into help fund it

[EclecticGroove]

I think most people just moved on and the fact that the XBox version looked basically like the DC version never helped matters . In the end the top brass with-in SEGA will just look at the sales of Shenmue 2 on two different systems and think to themselves its an IP not even worth going near, unless MS or SONY come into help fund it

At this point, I'd imagine that is the case no matter how well it sold (short of being a sales juggernaut of course).

It's not a style of game that sells multi millions traditionally, so even if it would, they are not likely to take that chance.

And even if they do re-use the IP... I don't think it's going to be what former fans want. It would either be some by the numbers "re-imaging" with a lot more pandering to the current GTA/COD crowds, or it would be a lower budget game that basically does very little over the older entries.

Sony or MS (or even Nintendo) coming in with financial support wouldn't change that. Unless Yu Suzuki winds up finding millions to fund this himself, it's going to get saddled with tons of content the powers that be think will help it sell better.

Not that I think it will ever happen mind you. I could see them doing some low budget XBLA/PSN style game just to finish the story more than I can see the series legitimately getting finished.

[KitsuneNight]

^ i wouldnt mind seeing the yakuza engine being used for shenmue 3
if only to end the story

[Black_Tiger]

Shenmue may have been an expensive experiment at the time, but it wouldn't be expensive today as similar games are made all the time and development tools have dramatically evolved.

[gamevet]

With a budget of $70 Million and only selling maybe 1-2 million copies it's a pretty big factor for why it was a failure. The game didn't even break even.

What was the budget on that Final Fantasy movie, $100 million? It almost took Square out of the software business.

[KitsuneNight]

^ 137 million
it killed square picture which is a pity really cause square has delusions of being a movie maker only they produce "interactive"movies so they can charge you 60 bucks for the dubious pleasure

[Team Andromeda]

What was the budget on that Final Fantasy movie, $100 million? It almost took Square out of the software business.

The Huge difference was CSK/SEGA had already bankrolled Shenmue development and set aside some $300 million dollars for software development before the DC had even gone on sale . Plus CSK had billions in the bank too . Selling the DC at a loss was what was really hurting SEGA

[SegaSonic91]

But at the same time... how could it have? The DC version was released essentially at the DC's deathbed. It was never released stateside, and the gaming population had generally judged the DC as dead and sat in wait for the PS2.

By the time the Xbox version came around, those who wanted Shenmue had largely gotten the DC version (legit or pirated). That left the Xbox version in a bit of a limbo. It would have been nice if it sold... but it wasn't going to happen. Any expectations that a port of a year old game from a dead system was going to sell millions on a brand new system from a newcomer in the console market were pipe dreams at best.

I do remember statements being made that the future of Shenmue depended on the success or failure if the XBOX version. I knew before it was released that it meant Shenmue would be dead and buried. The XBOX port was terrible, rushed, highly flawed technically and saddled with the fucking awful US voices only. I blame most of that on it being not made in Japan. It was also on the XBOX which even at the very early stages of its life had too many anti-Japanese game bias among its ownership. It still sickens me that a masterpiece like Panzer Dragoon Orta sold so badly. It also sickens me that although the game debuted with sales of 20,000 it's first week in Japan which was great for an XBOX game, DOA Beach Volleyball sold FOUR TIMES AS MANY COPIES it's debut week. Ugh!

[EclecticGroove]

The xbox port was acceptable, but the problem was it was just a straight port. Literally nothing of any real value was added to it. And since you couldn't even import your Shenmue 1 character, that means it was actually inferior from the standpoint of a dreamcast owner that loved/played the first.

And for your average xbox owner? Yeah, not much of a game they are going to be interested in. It looked dated, played dated, and generally wasn't going to look like what the xbox was selling.

[old man]

^ 137 million
it killed square picture which is a pity really cause square has delusions of being a movie maker only they produce "interactive"movies so they can charge you 60 bucks for the dubious pleasure

Which is why they can't sell their "games" anymore.