Are game discs made of cheaper quality now, than they were before?

[WarmSignal]

I'm confused. The game in question is a blu-ray. So you're saying even if you can see through it, that doesn't mean the game is damaged? I always assumed that meant chunks of data missing and therefor fubar'd. This copy of Fallout is one GS threw out, it's been passed around a bit for sure. They tend to throw out games that have some sort of physical defect, but it could have been pitched due to the sticker as even they have some standards about what they resell. Sometimes the discs have label scratches that you can see through, like the one in the picture. I don't even bother testing those discs, I usually pitch them back out.

[gamevet]

You should see the damage on the bottom side, if it was damaged on the label side.

[Chibisteven]

I'm confused. The game in question is a blu-ray. So you're saying even if you can see through it, that doesn't mean the game is damaged? I always assumed that meant chunks of data missing and therefor fubar'd. This copy of Fallout is one GS threw out, it's been passed around a bit for sure. They tend to throw out games that have some sort of physical defect, but it could have been pitched due to the sticker as even they have some standards about what they resell. Sometimes the discs have label scratches that you can see through, like the one in the picture. I don't even bother testing those discs, I usually pitch them back out.

With a Bluray disc, a scratch on the label side has to be even deeper. You'd have better luck on the other side of the disc. Which is why they made hard coatings mandatory. You think resurfacing the reading side of a Bluray is practical? No it's not. You finish that sucker off for good so quickly, your head will spin in silver dust. Without the hard coating you've be able to get to the data layer and foil layers on the reading side so fast it's scary.

It is cosmetic defect you have with the disc hopefully. If you don't want to live with that defect you need to take up with the pawnshop that sold you it. Good luck.

In my honest opinion hard coatings should of been necessary with CDs and DVDs since day one. Only did Bluray came along was it actually critical to have it in the first place.

A deep enough scratch can make the disc more prone to shattering violently in a drive if it's spun fast enough and the drive fails to detect a serious problem with the disc is about to happen. A very rare occurrence, but has happened before. It would never happen with a PS3, unless the spindle motor goes psycho from too much power fed to it (which would probably burn out before it would happen). You have better luck pulling this off by attaching the disc to something spins the disc super fast, at that point any disc will shatter if it's fast enough.

[WarmSignal]

You should see the damage on the bottom side, if it was damaged on the label side.

Well, if you can see through the disc on both sides I assume that's damage.

[Michael Helgeson]

Any disc is going to take damage if abused enough. Disc were meant to be treated like fine delicate china. You remove it from its case and insert it into the system carefully. When done, place it back in its case. It doesn't matter which format the disc is, if you treat it well it will usually last. If you don't, the disc wont. Concerning pin holes, they tend to not be related to disc rot. Real legit pin holes happen in manufacturing when the aluminum doesn't spread out evenly/completely to cover the entire disc. This sometimes happens when they don't pull a worn stamper from an injection mold. Other times it is just due to chance. Cd technology was designed with this manufacturing error in mind, and over the years has been able to manage it with error correction in disc playback/reading improving more and more. Error correction is also designed to take thin top scratches into consideration.

Real compact disc rot is usually related to the disc aluminum discoloring in patches over time, then sometimes flaking and falling off. This affected mainly music cd's supplied by PDO years back. Any damage emulating this now is more due to poor user care. Doing things like leaving disc submerged in water for extended time periods, or exposed to extended periods of high heat, like storage in a car/truck during the summer, or constant exposure to extreme heat and cold back and forth will do things to age the aluminum/lacquer, acrylic paint layer of the disc and cause it to discolor, flake off, rot etc.

Laying disc around on their top side carelessly or double stacking disc in jewel cases will cause nicks that appear similar to pinholes, but usually a little larger in size (let alone top scratches). What happens is you may have some extra material on the disc, a slight bump of aluminum, which was then lacquered or painted over. Friction of any kind, even slight, can etch the bump off the disc and expose a hole in the data. This is why it is a bad idea to go laying your disc around label side on your desk, floor, etc. You may be preventing the bottom from being scratched or scuffed, but the data layer is just as fragile, if not more so due to pressing defects.

GD-Rom manufacturing was poor in general and the disc don't hold up well if not treated better then normal. Gd-roms are known to rot easier due to exposure to heat and have the data layer flake off. Disc playback is also more susceptible to errors from pinholes due to the tighter data compression and poor error correction Sega and Yamaha implemented. Top scratches and nicks similar to pinholes are even more dangerous to GD-rom disc playback then normal due to the poor error correction. They basically crammed 1.2 gb on a normal compact disc. You can actually read GD-roms in normal computer drives if you have a drive that can be modified by firmware. Even without modified firmware you can usually read an initial audio/data track. They made sacrifices in order to do do what they did with GD-rom technology.

All in all it was clever, but sadly a bad idea on Sega's part. The writing was on the wall when they initially did bad pressings of disc on the release of the system. Normally years are put into researching new data formats and manufacturing processes. Sega tossed all this to the wind to get a new format to market for their new hardware. They deemed their new format copy proof. They were naive and reckless.

Concerning DVD, HD-DVD, and Bluray. All of these are prone to their own versions of disc rot. I have had Gamecube and PS2 disc here go bad. They were stored well, but just something in the internal layer changed and they went bad and no longer work. It seems to be an issue similar to the later Sony DADC pressed laserdisc, because, like those disc, the rot is not visible, yet. Disc affected were Smash Brothers, Godzilla, and Kingdom Hearts. I have also had a copy of Dune Extended Edition affected in this manner, with one side having sections become unplayable, and getting worse over time, then eventually the other side becoming affected too. This DVD, like the other disc, was stored and treated well.

Blurays have had a issue before where they had mold grow on the disc. Other issues include the data layer discoloring in patches, with the patch growing larger over time. HD-DVD rot tends to be the discolored variety, or the type like the above listed with Dune, where playback ability deteriorates over time with no visible damage done to the disc.


Also to note, but not ultra important. Some NeoGeo cd games were pressed with worn stampers, making the pits in the pressed disc not as good in quality at times. This seemed to have affected Double Dragon to a large scale, and other titles to a much smaller scale. A finely tuned laser can still read the disc fine, but normal tuned lasers tend to have issues. This caused a lot of people to end up with unplayable copies of Double Dragon. I also had a Metal Slug affected the same way. Both my copies of Double Dragon and Metal Slug disc could be checked for errors on pc and in one drive come up fine (a Pioneer), and in another come up with errors (Hitachi and Sony drives).

Both disc would play fine in one Neo CD and not in 3 others. Some Jaguar CD titles had a similar pressing problem. My copy of Baldies would be unplayable about half way through the game due to this. It seemed to have been a well known problem during the Jags lifetime, as others I talked to that had Jag cd add ons had similar problems with Dragons Lair and Myst.

[gamevet]

Well, if you can see through the disc on both sides I assume that's damage.

Gotcha!

[SegaSonic91]

LaserDiscs are the most prone to disc rot. Very cheaply made.

It isn't due to be cheaply made, but rather badly manufactured. The glue that certain pressing companies used was bad and that let's air get between the layers which in turn, causes disc rot. Sony's plant in the US are notorious for it. From my own experience over the past two years, the plants that Pony Canyon used in Japan were bad as well. Always pisses me off when I get an expensive, rotted disc, grrr! I am glad that CDs rarely suffer from the condition.

The current gen should be better for all those morons that cannot take care of their games. Blu-Rays are more resilient to scratches by design. I honestly never understand people that do not take care of their games! It's the exact reason I find it so hard to buy SEGA-CD games, or other US games off evilbay.