Which games have scaling and rotation?

[Kamahl]

Any examples of software driven sprite scaling, as in not stepped pre-renders, are there on SNES or PC Engine just out of interest?

I don't think there are any, the way they pack pixels is very bad for software effects.

[Team Andromeda]

I know it isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it does sound much better on real hardware than in this video. The emulator they used sounds tinny, and, in some cases, flat out wrong.

It really doesn't sound that much better on real hardware . I should say that Sol Feace on the Mega Drive had some nice rotation effects

[zetastrike]

So a console is only "truly" capable of scaling if it can run Afterburner or Outrun 1:1 with the arcade? Cool, bro. No one is saying the Genesis can run Outrun or that it's as good as the Sega CD, all we're saying is that it's capable of a few scaling/rotation effects here and there, which you won't admit because it doesn't "support" it.

[Barone]

We forgot some stuff...
Like Marvel Land's rotation in this object:
http://youtu.be/mxITelodq_8?t=1m50s

And this:
http://youtu.be/aEOEHs7zO4I?t=34m18s

[midnightrider]

http://youtu.be/aEOEHs7zO4I?t=34m18s

How would you describe the effect on the next stage, with the turning log?

Also, it really sucks that they never made a Smurfs game where you play from Gargamel's point of view .

[Bottino]

It really doesn't sound that much better on real hardware . I should say that Sol Feace on the Mega Drive had some nice rotation effects

Of course it does. Those guys at longplays uses some kind of old emulator for their MD videos;it sounds like shit.

Here's a high quality recording from real Hardware:

Well, if some kid wants to play dodgeball with a basketball...

Hum... that's gotta hurt. I like it.

[sheath]

Here are the recordings of Adventures of Batman & Robin's music I took from my launch model Genesis 1 a long time ago. They are 192KBPS MP3s but definitely sound better than emulation does most of the time.

Track 2

Level1 Boss

Track 3

Track 9

Track 11

[Kamahl]

The AoBaR soundtrack is everything the SoR3 soundtrack wanted to be.

[cleeg]

Oddly enough, that was apparently deliberate. Someone at Sonic Retro found that removing one line of code made the rotation super smooth:

http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.p...=11123&st=3555 (scroll down about halfway)

I've googled the arse off this, and what I'd like to do is...

Use some sort of program that will display the code, and delete the line from the above link, kindly provided by Assman. I assume it's that simple? I have tried using a hex editor, but I don't think that's the right sort of program.

I'd love to experience the smooooth rotational experience of the special stage.

Cheers!

[Barone]

I've googled the arse off this, and what I'd like to do is...

Use some sort of program that will display the code, and delete the line from the above link, kindly provided by Assman. I assume it's that simple? I have tried using a hex editor, but I don't think that's the right sort of program.

I'd love to experience the smooooth rotational experience of the special stage.

Cheers!

Look:

Here's an IPS Patch I've just created for those with flash carts who want to experience that smooth rotation effect but don't want to have to re-compile the game from sources.
I've used only hex editing instead of source code editing + compilation.

The input file expected for this patch is "Sonic The Hedgehog 1 (W) [!].gen" - which is already the later revision (with the Japanese release improvements) (a.k.a. REV 01):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0c...it?usp=sharing

[cleeg]

^ Worked a treat, and right under my nose too! Many thanks indeed Barone.

[EPSYLON EAGLE]

Shadow Run on the matrix stages, scaling effects at 0:45.

[A Black Falcon]

Any examples of software driven sprite scaling, as in not stepped pre-renders, are there on SNES or PC Engine just out of interest?

I don't know if anything else does on the SNES, but I would imagine the Super FX games do...

So a console is only "truly" capable of scaling if it can run Afterburner or Outrun 1:1 with the arcade?

Not quite 1:1 is required, but close, yes. 32X levels of inaccuracy are good enough to count (Afterburner 32X isn't quite arcade-perfect, but it's more than enough), but not what the Genesis can do for sure.

ool, bro. No one is saying the Genesis can run Outrun or that it's as good as the Sega CD, all we're saying is that it's capable of a few scaling/rotation effects here and there, which you won't admit because it doesn't "support" it.

I have not once said that the Genesis can't do a few sometimes-neat scaling or rotation effects here and there, because of course it can do that. But system support for scaling and rotation isn't just that, it's being able to do the Outrun or After Burner level stuff systems like the Lynx, Sega CD, or 32X can do.

Probably the most impressive scaling on the Genesis for me would be Red Zone's helicopter levels. There's only one map, I think (don't all the helicopter levels play in the same map?), but it sure is cool.

Of course the Genesis can't match hardware sprite scaling. If it could, they wouldn't have included that feature in the Sega CD.

For sure, that that difference is so important has been my point all along.

Show me where anyone said software scaling on the Genesis is just as good as hardware scaling, or that the Genesis "supports" scaling and rotation, a phrasing you've used in multiple posts already.

What, most of the posts bashing me for saying what I did weren't basically saying exactly that? Sure didn't sound like that one bit, that's for sure. By saying that my statement was false, people are of course saying that the Genesis supports scaling and rotation, and no one criticizing me qualified that, until now.

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...e-Rescue/page6 &etc. So many stupid insults, and I don't see anyone reasonably qualifying things like you have here.

That doesn't mean that software scaling (and rotation) isn't a thing, or that it hasn't been done on the Genesis.

Yeah, usually for an object here or there, and often with big framerate implications, since it all has to be done in software and hardware power is limited. It is nice that the Genesis can handle it at all though; it does show that it has the fastest CPU of the generation, pretty much (the TG16 CPU is about as fast, but it's 8-bit so more limited in comparison, I think...). I've never heard of a TG16 or TCD game which has real-time scaling or rotation, and on the SNES I doubt anything does it without a Super FX 1 or 2 chip. I don't know if you could do a scaler game on the Super FX, though... it was generally used for polygons. Do games like Doom or Dirt Trax FX use scaling for the sprites in those games, though? Of course those games have poor framerates, but anything using realtime polygonal 3d that gen did, excepting 32X games since that is more powerful.

[Zz Badnusty]

We forgot some stuff...
Like Marvel Land's rotation in this object:
http://youtu.be/mxITelodq_8?t=1m50s
And this:
http://youtu.be/aEOEHs7zO4I?t=34m18s

heh, I just checked in on this thread to see if Marvel Land had been discussed.
Marvel Land was surely one of the first Mega Drive games to feature rotation. If I'm not mistaken it was one of the first arcade platformer games to feature rotating gamefield objects in the levels. The 8-meg cart was surely a significant release for Namco.
I recall one US magazine (Electronic Gaming Monthly, i think) made note of it: "Scaling on the Genesis!" emblazoned over a screenshot.

[Team Andromeda]

I don't know if you could do a scaler game on the Super FX, though..

It happens in Yoshi Island quite a lot .

because of course it can do that. But system support for scaling and rotation isn't just that, it's being able to do the Outrun or After Burner level stuff systems like the Lynx, Sega CD.

Hardware support for such effects always tends to looks better than software trying to emu the effect . That said they are some great examples on the MD of it emu rotation - I don't care how it was done it still looks impressive . Sprite Scailing is an area that was harder for the MD to handle though