Kimble Justice's coming out story

[j_factor]

Remember that all of the allegations against Zoe Quinn come from unproven claims made by a supposed ex-boyfriend that he posted on 4chan in order to attack her with. Talking about the claims without putting them in context of where they came from is leaving a lot out. Whether any of them are true or not, they were released in order to hurt her, and for no other reason.

None of that is true. There are other allegations against Quinn besides what her ex-boyfriend said. I know it's convenient to paint this as being just a case of a spiteful ex, but that's not accurate. She was supposedly involved in attacking The Fine Young Capitalists, which has nothing to do with her ex. The claim that she is close personal friends with a Reddit moderator and had that person delete thousands of posts, also has nothing to do with her ex. When Wolf Wozniak came out and alleged that she had sexually harassed him, that had nothing to do with her ex either.

Also, the claims that were made by her ex, do not only hurt her. Nathan Grayson is more implicated in that story than she is. The story isn't just about some indie developer having cheated on her partner. Because, really, who cares? It's about what (supposedly) happened as a result of that. That's the only reason the story caught on. Otherwise it would just be gossip.

No, she's not. Exploiting the threats? What? That's not true at all...

Oh please. She has used this situation to raise her profile and make herself a sympathetic figure.

It's sad that you apparently have no interest in trying to understand how things are.

If you're going to quote me and say something after it, say something that actually addresses the text you quoted, please.

Think of the difference between the male figures in things like romance novels or soap operas, versus those in action movies, wrestling, or videogames. There's a huge difference between the two. Male and female videogame characters are designed for men.

The difference between a romance novel and a game or action movie is what happens in it, not the male figure presented. I don't really see any difference between Fabio on the cover of a romance novel and Fabio on the cover of Ironsword. (It's true that there are hardly any of the videogame equivalent of a romance novel. But that's content, not image.)

[Kogen]

Yaoi is a gross sexualisation of men that disgusts me and has been created by women to satisfy their perverse fantasies. Yet for some reason men simply accept that women can create games for their own interests and do not complain about sexism. Instead they buy different games and make their own games in the image they want.

[Kamahl]

So apparently Kamahl thinks that slut-shaming is okay. Disgusting... and almost as disgusting is pretending that videogames, which are entirely designed by people, somehow are the same thing as real life events. Characters in games don't make choices, they do what they were programmed to do.

Ha, I knew it, you're one of them. Here it is guys, I'm "slut shaming" now. They can't even detect sarcasm when it goes against their programming. Pathetic.

I'm not even sure who suffers more from retards like ABF, men or women. A woman that actually wants to be feminine, to feel sexy is "accepted" (because feminists aren't allowed to criticise women unless she's a stay at home mom), but if she is depicted in a game... Oh boy, all hell breaks loose. She's now a male fantasy sex object.

You've heard it from ABF guys, those women should not be depicted in games, all women in games must look and act like men. (read: the feminist standard of what a woman should be like, not what the woman might actually want to be)

Here's a hint you moron, there a plenty of women in real life that look better than Lara Croft, and they show more skin than Lara Croft. They are fine with it, men are fine with it, only "dog faced fat feminist ladyboys" (is this the correct counterpart to what they call non-feminist men?) have a problem with it. Games depict them just like they depict stereotypical muscular manly man. Fabio is Fabio whether he's on the cover of a medieval fantasy book or a romance novel.

The standard of "ideal male" isn't very different between what women find attractive and what man want to be. The "ideal male" is all about being the most attractive to women, that's just how nature works.

It's ridiculous there's even a discussion about "Female tropes in video games". There's "Tropes in video games" you can take the women part out. What's essentially a male niche product (hardcore games) must be changed to accommodate women, as if there isn't plenty of AAA titles with strong female characters.

Action Man doesn't need to dress in pink and have Action Jane packed with every box. It's a niche product and so is AAA gaming. As women enter AAA gaming, more games will be accommodating, and less games will feature half naked women slaying demons with their boobs. It's a niche product, let it be.

This whole "women are discriminated against" lie needs to stop. There's no proof of it other than a few anecdotal examples I can counter with my own anecdotal examples, because anecdotal examples are shit.
Some women being discriminated does not imply "All women are discriminated". Some are, and that is bad, but most aren't.

I think a big problem here is that "equality" means different things for "feminists" and everyone else. Equality (in my dictionary) means equal rights, respect for differences, and equal chances.

Questionare time:
1. Do women have equal rights to men? No, they have more (parenting and marital laws).
2. Are differences between men and women respected? No, everyone is supposed to blend into a weird middle ground.
3. Are there equal chances? Unfortunately no, which is why you have programs that help integrate into male dominated environments. There's no reverse effort for men.

Feminists seem perfectly fine with the first 2, and totally ignore the efforts being done on the 3rd (Eclectic did so in this very thread, and he's the best kind of feminist, or at least supportive of the movement).

[retrospiel]

Used to think of myself as a feminist but I am not so sure anymore. I still believe in equality and how a lot of things are social and not biological but people like Sarkeesian REALLY make me question myself.

[Kamahl]

Used to think of myself as a feminist but I am not so sure anymore. I still believe in equality and how a lot of things are social and not biological but people like Sarkeesian REALLY make me question myself.

I was in the same position, but questioning anything about feminism gets extremists going after you. No different from religious extremism or anything of the sort. Whenever I see cult like behaviour I go running, and start questioning a lot more than I was originally.

A little bit of anecdotal "evidence" from my self. I'm currently doing a software engineering thesis, I've been studying informatics for 6 years now.
Here's what I've gathered to far:

1. Every year from the inception of the course there's been women enrolling in it.

2. Some women are very good at it, others are very bad, no different from men.

3. The number of "very good at it" women seems to remain constant or increasing slightly every year, while the bad ones are multiplying like crazy. (The percentage of "very good at it" men is pretty constant too, but on the women's case the percentage is technically decreasing even though more good ones are enrolling)

4. All of the "very good at it" women I've met have no difficulty interacting with men. Contrarily to popular belief some are not only very attractive, but act very feminine.

5. These women believe in feminism, but hate the favouritism they get. They see men trying to "help" them as an insult. I really like this sort of women.

6. A large portion of the "very bad at it" women proudly proclaim to be feminists, demand constant special treatment from men, and make men feel like they're walking on eggshells around them.

7. I know of quite a few of these so called "feminists" who had sex with a guy in exchange for him doing a project for them.

8. There are two courses on informatics, one math heavy, the other isn't. The non-math heavy has a 55/45 split favouring women. A large percentage of the teachers in both courses are women.

9. There is a lot of incentive for women to go into engineering fields, and the males there treat them like princesses (the "feminists" don't see a problem with this, and even demand it)

10. Every women that was "very good at it" that I know finished the course and got a job in the field has very few complaints, the worst i've heard is that they hate when they notice guys are hesitating to speak something in fear of offending her. I wonder whose fault that is -_-...

11. I only witnessed one instance of a guy doing something that really offended a woman (that one was from a different course but was working with informatics). Basically two guys (who weren't working with her) were arguing in the same room. One of them responded to the other by burping. She told him she thought that was out of line, and shouldn't be done in a work environment. The man quickly apologised, said she was totally right he forgot where he was, and never did it again. Not once did he complain she was "a feminist bitch" or anything of the sort, he actually agreed with her, even though she really hammered him about it (calmly pointing out the issue would have had the same effect).

Hope this clears where I'm coming from.

[midnightrider]

I don't get how one can look at the Phantasy Star's and see sexism. I guess you'll find anything, if you actively look for it. Both characters that died, chose their fate. Heroically at that. That's what we were supposed to see. Not "lol, useless bitch died," or whatever hyper feminists think people actually thought of those scenes.

Nei chose to come along with Rolf, forcefully. She knew she was going to die, hell if you refuse to fight that battle, it even goes into that. She also knew that if she stayed alive(or more to the point, if Neifirst stayed alive), it would be worse for the world, and eventually makes the hard choice to save it.

Alys chose to become a hunter. When she saw her younger partner, who was pretty much a little brother by this point, in danger, she reacted, pushing him out of the way. Unfortunately, she couldn't move fast enough to also escape the blast aimed at Chaz.

If either of these women reacted differently, the same people looking at this as the fridge trope, or whatever, would complain that they were perceived as weaklings, and thus women the weaker gender. There's no winning when you're looking to make sure there's a problem to complain about.

If there were any actual sexism involved, Rolf/Rune would force Nei/Alys into the kitchen to make them sandwhiches, and then after eating them, give the women black eyes to prove male superiority, or something. I seriously doubt Rieko Kodama would have let something like that happen. You know, the woman who was the lead executive designer behind this series?

Oh, and just to get this one out of the way, Duke Nukem's dialogue. Also written by women. Are you going to explain that, along with Rieko Kodama, these are self hating gender traitors?

[retrospiel]

^ Personally I always hated ignored Duke Nukem for its dialogue but looking for sexism in a game like Donkey Kong / Super Mario (which is loosely based on King Kong's story) - or as a friend recently implied: Emiko Yamamoto's Castle of Illusion (which is based on the Snow White fairy tale, and the Mickey/Minnie characters obviously) - just goes way too far.

As many have pointed out before me these are insanely old story archetypes that were chosen mostly because they can be explained in a couple of seconds. The main feature of these early games used to be gameplay and not story.

[Lan Di]

Feminism is an extremist movement that thrives on fear and intimidation. Some people are terrified to be called a misogynist, homophobe, or racist for just from being truthful or candid. Some people would rather be popular and accepted than to be demonized on an unwarranted basis. And that is the feminists' strength, fear and intimidation (money and political muscle helps too).

The feminist movement is like Al Sharpton on steroids wearing a dress. Political agenda and money is the motivator. Grievance is a big money industry. Just ask Gloria Allred, she is THE premier liberal feminist grievance queen. BTW, the 1960's civil right movement was for oppressed blacks, not feminists, gays, LTGBs, or illegal immigration. Those groups like to exploit the civil rights movement for personal gain. MLK, didn't die for those groups.

"Gloria Allred: If You're Not a Feminist", Then You're a Bigot". Grievance mobster extraordinaire.

[Gogogadget]

Samus, Bayonetta and Lara Croft are examples of women that actually win feminist points, again just because a woman may be a bit sexualised (or sexualises herself) doesn't make her an enemy of feminists.

[Phexar]

This guy wrote a neutral-ish article about the conflict around the word 'gamer': http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...ive-the-gamer/

Some of these gamers really do hold deeply sexist viewpoints, which makes writing what I’m writing now somewhat precarious. I am not an ally to misogynists, but I’m not impressed by many of their critics either.

But bad apples do not create an identity for an entire group of people, and critics and journalists who attempt to destroy a word in the name of politics are not furthering some noble goal, some cultural evolutionary step. As if by proclamation anyone could declare a word dead to begin with.

[j_factor]

That's a good article. I thought those "death of the gamer" articles that every major gaming site posted around the same time (and all by different authors, was this coordinated or something?) were really pretentious and self-serving. And I don't appreciate the implication that if you disagree with them, you are a misogynist. Or that if you continue to use the term gamer, you are tacitly supporting the trolls. You don't get to dictate the meaning of words.

[Kamahl]

This guy wrote a neutral-ish article about the conflict around the word 'gamer': http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...ive-the-gamer/

That was a rather good article, and the quote from a blog of a female gamer there was even better.
How do you stop the fighting when both sides see the other as crazy?

Posting the blog post because it really is a must read: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s70jhl

[Lan Di]

That was a rather good article, and the quote from a blog of a female gamer there was even better.
How do you stop the fighting when both sides see the other as crazy?

Posting the blog post because it really is a must read: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s70jhl

Good for her. That article took bravery on her part. I see it this way, both sides feel threatened when their comfort zone and/or agendas are shaken. Their is no excuse for death/rape threats. Just like there is no excuse to threaten to take away someone's identity and to force change in the name of progression and feminism. Violence and threats are not the answer. I compare those people to the Ferguson rioters. They are all out for self gratification and destruction. Savages come in many forms.

This world is big enough for all of us.

[Pyron]

I find it funny a person exposing himself on the Internet and be angry at being criticized and attacked by morons ....
after all, is already known for ages that the internet is the home of the trolls!

[Gogogadget]

Feminism is an extremist movement

No it isn't.