The N64 Mythology

[TrekkiesUnite118]

True but you know better

Hence why I'm not really taking any of it seriously.

[Da_Shocker]

Man imagine if Konami would've put out both Turtle arcade games on the N64 in one cart arcade perfect ports......

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Man imagine if Konami would've put out both Turtle arcade games on the N64 in one cart arcade perfect ports......

While they were at it they could have put them on the Saturn and PS1 as well.

[Da_Shocker]

While they were at it they could have put them on the Saturn and PS1 as well.

True but I say the N64 cause 3rd parties weren't to keen on supporting multi-taps for the few beat em ups that were out there. Shit Sega could've made Zombie Revenge a 4 player beat em up on the DC.

[A Black Falcon]

It is kind of crazy that it wasn't until the Playstation 2 (or beyond? Was it actually Xbox or GC or something?) that we finally got a home-console beat 'em up with the full 4 player simultaneous co-op mode intact... and when it finally happened people didn't care about beat 'em ups anymore. Ah well.

[j_factor]

That was the one disappointment with Dungeons & Dragons Collection for Saturn. But, that aside, I can't think of many beat 'em ups that should have had 4 players and didn't. 4 players in a beat 'em up is hard to do in terms of game design.

[A Black Falcon]

That was the one disappointment with Dungeons & Dragons Collection for Saturn. But, that aside, I can't think of many beat 'em ups that should have had 4 players and didn't. 4 players in a beat 'em up is hard to do in terms of game design.

Lots of SNES and Genesis games should have, had it been possible! (There is one 4-player SNES beat 'em up, in The Peace Keepers, but as with Guardian Heroes on Saturn, it's a versus mode only, an the single player co-op modes in both games are two player only. That's why I said 'co-op' in my post, to not count those two.)

As for 5th and 6th gen stuff, though, some obvious ones come to mind. Fighting Force is awful, but four player support might have made it slightly less bad, for example. Die Hard Arcade, Dynamite Cop, and Zombie Revenge would all be cool with four players (the latter two on Dreamcast of course). And GC/PS2/Xbox beat 'em ups like the TMNT or Teen Titans games show that four player support does make even bland games like those 6th gen TMNT games slightly more fun than they'd otherwise be. The 5th generation was a somewhat weak period for console beat 'em ups, for sure, but still, none of the few we got had four player modes, even though in arcades four players had been common in beat 'em ups since the late '80s.

On that note, it'd have been pretty cool to see console ports of the arcade Battletoads and Bucky O'Hare games. Those are both good beat' em ups. Golden Axe: Revenge of Death Adder of course also should have gotten a port. All three would have between several years old by the time the 5th-gen consoles released, but still, they'd have been great to see! I know, Bucky O'Hare was based on a cartoon that had been cancelled before the arcade game even released, Battletoads was effectively a dead series as Rare had moved on to Donkey Kong, and Sega was stupid and chose to bring over The Duel instead of Revenge of Death Adder, but ignoring the licenses, those are some pretty good games. (Battletoads Arcade as an early N64 release, along with KI Gold, would have been pretty cool... and obviously the other Golden Axe game instead of The Duel on Saturn.) I know Konami had some other good arcade beat 'em ups it never brought out on home consoles as well -- their somewhat Final Fight-esque ones, Metamorphic Force, etc.

[EmperorIng]

and when it finally happened people didn't care about beat 'em ups anymore. Ah well.

God of War sold pretty well if I recall. Or is that a "hack n' slash"?

[goldenband]

Fighting Force is awful, but four player support might have made it slightly less bad, for example.

Have you ever played Fighting Force in 2P mode? At least in the PlayStation version (can't speak to FF64), the camera is a nightmare! I can't imagine what it'd be like with 4P.

Otherwise, the TMNT games were the first thing I thought of, e.g. Turtles in Time (hypothetical slowdown aside), or the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (i.e. not "TMNT") game from 2003 which only supports 2P as I recall.

[A Black Falcon]

God of War sold pretty well if I recall. Or is that a "hack n' slash"?

That's a good question. That generation saw a "new" genre rise which became quite popular, the "character action game" -- Devil May Cry, God of War, etc. I kind of think of them as a spinoff of beat 'em ups, but they are definitely different from the original genre. Very few of those games have multiplayer, it would be harder with their flashy combat systems, QTEs, etc.

Have you ever played Fighting Force in 2P mode? At least in the PlayStation version (can't speak to FF64), the camera is a nightmare! I can't imagine what it'd be like with 4P.

I haven't played the PS1 version before, only N64 (and the beta Saturn version thing), and the last time I played the N64 version in multiplayer was a long time ago... I don't remember how the camera was.

Otherwise, the TMNT games were the first thing I thought of, e.g. Turtles in Time (hypothetical slowdown aside), or the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (i.e. not "TMNT") game from 2003 which only supports 2P as I recall.

Only the first 6th-gen TMNT game is two player only, the other four that gen are all four player simultaneous games. Three are beat 'em ups, one a basic beat 'em up-esque fighting game. Two have new versions of the original arcade games in them as playable/unlockable extras, with four player modes intact but the original soundtracks replaced with stuff from the '00s series.

I only have three of the TMNT games that gen, the first two and the last one (the PC version of the one based on the '06 movie), and none are that good, but the second one is the best of those, I guess. The third might be the best one from what I've seen, but I haven't played that one. The '06 one, TMNT, is kind of awful, it makes the bland and somewhat dull '00s Konami Ninja Turtles games that precede it look almost good in comparison.

I mentioned the Teen Titans game because I did get that for GC back in '06, and liked it. It's a decently average beat 'em up. I like that all five characters are always on screen, that's cool and adds to the game; not all of the Turtles games that gen have that (the first one and the '06 one definitely don't, but I think some of the ones in between do).

[Team Andromeda]

Well Three Dirty Dwarfs did have a 3 player co-op

[Da_Shocker]

I also would've loved to see some Neo Geo games on the N64. It's funny how people say Sony was anti-2D with the PSx but go look at the N64 and there was what a handful of 2D games released not even sure if there are any 2D fighters on the system. With that being said I would be very interested in seeing how many multitaps were sold with the NES, SNES, Genesis, Saturn, PSx and even PS2. I don't remember anybody owning one even with the Genesis being a sports powerhouse and the PSx too. And it's not like they were that expensive I mean they typically cost 19.99 which was the same the standard controllers back then.

[j_factor]

Lots of SNES and Genesis games should have, had it been possible! (There is one 4-player SNES beat 'em up, in The Peace Keepers, but as with Guardian Heroes on Saturn, it's a versus mode only, an the single player co-op modes in both games are two player only. That's why I said 'co-op' in my post, to not count those two.)

As for 5th and 6th gen stuff, though, some obvious ones come to mind. Fighting Force is awful, but four player support might have made it slightly less bad, for example. Die Hard Arcade, Dynamite Cop, and Zombie Revenge would all be cool with four players (the latter two on Dreamcast of course). And GC/PS2/Xbox beat 'em ups like the TMNT or Teen Titans games show that four player support does make even bland games like those 6th gen TMNT games slightly more fun than they'd otherwise be. The 5th generation was a somewhat weak period for console beat 'em ups, for sure, but still, none of the few we got had four player modes, even though in arcades four players had been common in beat 'em ups since the late '80s.

It's hard to balance for four players, while at the same time making the game playable for 1-2 players. Either the game is too easy in four player mode, or the screen gets too busy and overwhelming. I mean, have you played Guardian Heroes a lot? It already gets pretty crazy at times, with two players plus the AI robot guy and a screen full of enemies. Two more players on top of that? I can only imagine how hectic that would be.

[maxi]

I also would've loved to see some Neo Geo games on the N64. It's funny how people say Sony was anti-2D with the PSx but go look at the N64 and there was what a handful of 2D games released not even sure if there are any 2D fighters on the system. With that being said I would be very interested in seeing how many multitaps were sold with the NES, SNES, Genesis, Saturn, PSx and even PS2. I don't remember anybody owning one even with the Genesis being a sports powerhouse and the PSx too. And it's not like they were that expensive I mean they typically cost 19.99 which was the same the standard controllers back then.

[Hans-CD]

I finally finished reading this topic, very interesting as always! The bickering with N64 fans is a classic, as I always thought back in the day. Afterall, imagine living with N64 as your primary console during the " 32 bit era ", dreadful!!
I'm very grateful to Barone for compiling such an accurate list of "facts" that Nintendo 64 fans are bringing up since the dawn of time, actually I linked this discussion to a few real life friends who were poor chaps with N64 only and I'm getting kicks out of their reactions.

-Warning, incoherent wall of text incoming -

I really never understood the N64, bland graphics, forgettable sound experience and all around lack of a robust title lineup. I bought it on launch as I usually did and I admit I was underwhelmed with Mario 64. I am a huge Super Mario World fan. I actually think it is one of the best if not the best platformer ever, I would choose that over any Sonic and I love my Sonic. Knowing this I was expecting Mario on the Ultra 64 to be SMW on steroids, what I got instead was something of a blue balls feeling.

I liked the game art style, graphics sure were spot on (if somewhat blurry, but that's something I then came to expect from every N64 game) the soundtrack was refreshing and overall it was a rather fun experience.

That is until I reached the first "you need XX stars to proceed" door. At that point, I had no idea that the game wanted me to play all the levels countless times to find this or that thing, do this or that ..essentially a way to force you into playing in the same field over and over again. Now , I got all the Yoshi coins in SMW, all the bonus levels, everything you can think of, but that was after many playthroughs. I decided the pace i wanted to set for my own game, usually the first run of a game was always aimed towards beating the game, if I liked the game then a second run was in order, to memorize the levels, enemies patterns and so on.
After that it was secret hunting time. Mario 64 instead forced me to collect a lot of stuff when all I wanted at the moment was to just go on and see different stages, worlds, hear different music tracks , enjoy the game at the pace I felt was right.
I stopped playing 3d platformers with Mario 64, so that was my first one and the last one almost. I'm not counting Sonic Adventure since that's a particular almost racing game-esque style of platformer. Actually the only 3d platformers I really enjoyed are the recent SM3DW on the WIi U and SM3DL on 3DS.

I learned just now that you guys were referring to Mario 64 styled games as collectathon and it definitely makes a LOT of sense.
Anyway, I bought many other games for my 64 but mostly was disappointed because my favourite genres were either not covered or were just ham fisted attempts of a game.
Fighting games, Jrpgs, Action/Survival horror games, Racing games, notable arcade ports. These are all genres that almost do not exist on the 64, and usually when there are some they are really poor or at the very least uninspired and bland.

For me the N64 was the complete opposite of my up to now favourite Nintendo console, the SNES. Lack of solid third party titles, lack of game genres, lackluster game presentations and so on.

I guess you could say the same about my Saturn, but I feel the at least it had a better coverage of different game genres. The n64 felt like a niche console that was not even good at being a niche console, where the Saturn instead shined. Maybe it was because I was in my early late teens early twenties when N64 came out, but I couldn't feel the same "magic" that I usually felt when playing Nintendo consoles. However back then it survived the gen and actually managed to get a few years under the spotlight in the USA especially, I always felt baffled and confused about that.

I see that most of the 64 fans are actually people a good 10 or so years younger than me, so maybe the fault lied in me and not in the console itself, but this topic made me finally realize that many other players felt the same as me and actually still do.