Sonic Generations and Colours being good are just delusions

[Kogen]

The bolded parts are true for every single main Sonic game ever since Adventure on DC.

Maybe that's why many people don't like Sonic anymore.

Are you calling Big the Cat dumb?

Also I thought Adventure 1's story was genuinely well done, especially E-102's. What is wrong with the writing there?

[Kogen]

Sources?

I've always seen the launch fiscal year shipment data that's why I ask you.

I remember Heroes approaching something like 6 million, mainly PS2 copies. But yeah, I have no idea what his sources are. Your source looks right for the time period it covers.

It is worth remembering those Lost World and Boom mainly sold on 3DS. Imagine how bad the Wii U sales were.

[Soulis]

Are you calling Big the Cat dumb?

Also I thought Adventure 1's story was genuinely well done, especially E-102's. What is wrong with the writing there?

Yes i call him dumb. Sonic's redesign was also dumb, the voice acting was atrocious and it looked like Sega wanted the series to look more childish than a Nickelodeon cartoon show. I'm not sure about the writing or the story itself, i stopped caring about it as i couldn't stand Sonic or Tails talking. But, you know, i never played Sonic games for their story anyway.

[Kogen]

I would suggest playing it in Japanese for better voices.

[Soulis]

Still, Sonic was never a series that needed a "deep" story. Just because the storage medium could finally store lots of data, which allowed companies to use lots of voice acting and FMVs/cutscenes, it didn't mean every game had to be like a movie or something. Bowser kidnapped the princess and Mario has to save her. Robotnic turned all animals into robots and Sonic has to save them. That's all these games needed for the gamers to enjoy the level design/gameplay/controls, etc. These were supposed to be arcade/platformers, not RPGs.

This is why Mario games are still good to this day (or at least better than Sonic games). Because Nintendo doesn't care about creating a detailed lore/story about those. Story was never the priority in a Mario platform game. They just focus on the gameplay, level design and mechanics. Sega had to create a large amount of shitty, randomly designed Sonic friends just so there are enough characters to create a lore and a "deep" story.

Now maybe, just maybe, i would ignore all this crap if the games still had good controls and level design to make platforming enjoyable. But no, it seems that they care more about creating stupid shit that make no sense in a Sonic game to attract the Dora the Explorer audience than making a decent platform game. After Adventure and to this day, they still can't get the controls/physics right. Even in Sonic 4, which was supposed to be the "real" sequel to the Mega Drive games, the physics were laughable and downright buggy. And maybe this is something that many old Sonic fans don't realize (because it's subtle) but the perfect, pinball-like physics of the Mega drive Sonic games was probably the one thing that made these games so addicting and fun to play.

[negative chill]

Sonic Lost World is a good game on it's own, it's just not the Generations 2 everyone was expecting.

Lost World rubbed a lot of people the wrong way because "seemed" like a complete rip-off of the Mario Galaxy games. Personally though, it felt like what X-treme should have been if it had been actually released and not succumbed to the widely documented downward, kamikaze-like spiral that it became

[Folco]

I remember Heroes approaching something like 6 million, mainly PS2 copies.

I really really doubt that was the case.

[Kogen]

Still, Sonic was never a series that needed a "deep" story. Just because the storage medium could finally store lots of data, which allowed companies to use lots of voice acting and FMVs/cutscenes, it didn't mean every game had to be like a movie or something. Bowser kidnapped the princess and Mario has to save her. Robotnic turned all animals into robots and Sonic has to save them. That's all these games needed for the gamers to enjoy the level design/gameplay/controls, etc. These were supposed to be arcade/platformers, not RPGs.

This is why Mario games are still good to this day (or at least better than Sonic games). Because Nintendo doesn't care about creating a detailed lore/story about those. Story was never the priority in a Mario platform game. They just focus on the gameplay, level design and mechanics. Sega had to create a large amount of shitty, randomly designed Sonic friends just so there are enough characters to create a lore and a "deep" story.

Now maybe, just maybe, i would ignore all this crap if the games still had good controls and level design to make platforming enjoyable. But no, it seems that they care more about creating stupid shit that make no sense in a Sonic game to attract the Dora the Explorer audience than making a decent platform game. After Adventure and to this day, they still can't get the controls/physics right. Even in Sonic 4, which was supposed to be the "real" sequel to the Mega Drive games, the physics were laughable and downright buggy. And maybe this is something that many old Sonic fans don't realize (because it's subtle) but the perfect, pinball-like physics of the Mega drive Sonic games was probably the one thing that made these games so addicting and fun to play.

Blame Takashi Iizuka, it was his idea. I would have liked a normal platformer based on Sonic Jam and the OVA for the talking/etc.

[Kogen]

I really really doubt that was the case.

It was really successful due to Fox Kids' Sonic X dub and McDonalds. Every McDonalds had a playroom here of Sonic Heroes. I do not know where to get precise numbers, though.

[Phexar]

https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/s...21365736329216

Sonic the Hedgehog
‏@sonic_hedgehog
Yo, @GameTrailers, before you call Sonic Generations bad again, try not to forget you rated it 8/10. #notdyingyet
http://www.gametrailers.com/games/e1...ic-generations

Well... lol. I wasn't expecting that.

What still baffles me with Sega is that both Colors and Generations were well received (along with the day portions of Unleashed) with people proclaiming that the Sonic Cycle was broken, then they proceeded to throw said well-received formula out the window with Lost World. Huh? Sonic Boom at least was made by a completely different team.

[Kogen]

[Kogen]

https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/s...21365736329216



Well... lol. I wasn't expecting that.

What still baffles me with Sega is that both Colors and Generations were well received (along with the day portions of Unleashed) with people proclaiming that the Sonic Cycle was broken, then they proceeded to throw said well-received formula out the window with Lost World. Huh? Sonic Boom at least was made by a completely different team.

I will stop trolling for a moment.

Is there really such a thing as 'The Sonic Cycle' or is it something nerds on the internet made up to somehow justify their favourite video game series not being so good anymore?

Did Tails and Knuckles really ruin Sonic 3/K? Think about it logically for a moment.

Do you think game developers or normal people really think a 4chan meme is a way to develop and consider video games? Is Sonic Labyrinth good because it does not follow the Sonic cycle?

Also who is 'well receiving' what? I hated the Day Stages in Unleashed and preferred the Werehog stages, and I hated Colours. Unleashed was better at everything than that game.

As for the reason why they dropped the Unleashed gameplay: it was a boosting in a straight line and spamming buttons on jumps. It was shallow, over-done, and boring. What else could they possibly ever do with it that has not already been done? If they made it more complex/hard, people would get frustrated like they did in Unleashed. Go play the Chinese DLC levels to see what I mean, or try to do those damn QTEs rapidly.

[Soulis]

I hated the Day Stages in Unleashed and preferred the Werehog stages

What exactly was good for you about the werehog stages? I mean, except for the lore and the name of the characters was anything about it Sonic-like? Did you feel like you were playing a Sonic game? Didn't you thought that if this wasn't a Sonic game at all and was a random new ip, nobody would see the difference?

What is the identity of a Sonic game? What makes a Sonic game a Sonic game? Is it the speed? the lore? Seems to me that a lot of random ideas are thrown in it like the werehog gimmick or Sonic holding a sword in Black Knight. Why the hell does Sonic need to hold a sword? Because it looks cool to little children? And why he needs to punch enemies with his fists? Weren't his spikes his main weapon all along? I mean wasn't it the reason they made him a hedgehog? Because he could curl like a ball (makes sense for the speed related theme and the pinball themed stages) and use his spikes as a weapon? Also, wasn't Knuckles supposed to be the punching guy? And why did Sonic needed to be a brawling game anyway?

At what point a stupid random idea that comes to someone's head becomes a random stupid idea in a Sonic game instead of a "fresh mechanic"?

[Phexar]

Really, wow. The only good thing I can say about that one is that the rail grinding felt less glitchy than Sonic Heroes (never got sent into an abyss somehow) and that I enjoyed it slightly more than Sonic and the Secret Rings, which I fucking hate.

I will stop trolling for a moment.

Is there really such a thing as 'The Sonic Cycle' or is it something nerds on the internet made up to somehow justify their favourite video game series not being so good anymore?

Did Tails and Knuckles really ruin Sonic 3/K? Think about it logically for a moment.

Do you think game developers or normal people really think a 4chan meme is a way to develop and consider video games? Is Sonic Labyrinth good because it does not follow the Sonic cycle?

No lol, I don't give a shit about the cycle myself actually. Just that Day Unleashed/Colors/Generations made people largely shut up for once about the cycle so there's something to it's popularity amongst gamers at large I guess. Just talking about what the fanbase at large goes for.

Also who is 'well receiving' what? I hated the Day Stages in Unleashed and preferred the Werehog stages, and I hated Colours. Unleashed was better at everything than that game.

General reception and sales? I liked the Night stages too. Day stages were middling. Never played Colors, enjoyed Generations... mostly. Both Sonic's felt a bit off.

As for the reason why they dropped the Unleashed gameplay: it was a boosting in a straight line and spamming buttons on jumps. It was shallow, over-done, and boring. What else could they possibly ever do with it that has not already been done? If they made it more complex/hard, people would get frustrated like they did in Unleashed. Go play the Chinese DLC levels to see what I mean, or try to do those damn QTEs rapidly.

That is true, just that they dropped a proven success. They could have made it more complex/hard, true, but they also could have refined the formula further still. Then again I also neglected to mention Classic Sonic in Generations which was the most well received aspect of all, and could definitely have done with refining instead of opting for Lost World's style like they did.

[Kogen]

Really, wow. The only good thing I can say about that one is that the rail grinding felt less glitchy than Sonic Heroes (never got sent into an abyss somehow) and that I enjoyed it slightly more than Sonic and the Secret Rings, which I fucking hate.

So that is not saying much.

I just posted it to show how full of it GT is. They have no integrity.

No lol, I don't give a shit about the cycle myself actually. Just that Day Unleashed/Colors/Generations made people largely shut up for once about the cycle so there's something to it's popularity amongst gamers at large I guess. Just talking about what the fanbase at large goes for.

Regardless if those stages worked or not, they ran their course. That type of gameplay has no unique levels, every level is basically the same with different art/music. They did everything possible with it. The only further thing I could see them doing with it is Generations 2 just due to the nostalgia in art/music, but they are too stupid to do that.

Something I do not understand is why they only do Sonic stages. What about Tails? Knuckles? They could do some flying/exploring with Tails, or even co-op. Knuckles could be a reworked Werehog. They could have racing too.

Am I the only one that finds 'just Sonic' pretty stagnant? It makes the games lack replayability. They have no chaos emeralds either. Red rings are OK (they should be emblems), but I do not care for score/time attacking or S ranks. I just find these games so short now. The missions (and rewards) in Generations are the only thing that saved it, honestly.

General reception and sales? I liked the Night stages too. Day stages were middling. Never played Colors, enjoyed Generations... mostly. Both Sonic's felt a bit off.

I have no idea why people hate the night stages. Have they played Marble Zone? Labyrinth Zone? As Knuckles? 20 other slower zones? In Sonic 1, only GHZ and Star Light were 'fast levels', the other 4 were puzzle (Marble/Labyrinth) and physics (Spring Yard/Scrap Brain) levels.

I wish people - fans and developers alike - would study the Mega Drive games. Sonic Team thinks Sonic is just about speed running when that is just a single aspect of the series. Most human beings do not want to just Go Fast.

That is true, just that they dropped a proven success. They could have made it more complex/hard, true, but they also could have refined the formula further still. Then again I also neglected to mention Classic Sonic in Generations which was the most well received aspect of all, and could definitely have done with refining instead of opting for Lost World's style like they did.

Generations 2 could have just been made the same with a better Classic Sonic and people would buy it. I will just repeat: Sonic Team is stupid. Notice how they made DLC for 06, Unleashed, and Lost World, but not for Generations. What the hell is wrong with them?

There is something severely wrong with Sonic Team. Iizuka is not a good brand leader at all.

What exactly was good for you about the werehog stages? I mean, except for the lore and the name of the characters was anything about it Sonic-like? Did you feel like you were playing a Sonic game? Didn't you thought that if this wasn't a Sonic game at all and was a random new ip, nobody would see the difference?

I felt like I was playing as Knuckles, or playing a stage like Marble Zone. Remember that Sonic is not only about speed but about physics and puzzles too, and there is more than one character playstyle. Werehog = Knuckles, basically, and Tails had cruddy QTE flying stages instead of cool Panzer Dragoon stages.

What is the identity of a Sonic game? What makes a Sonic game a Sonic game? Is it the speed? the lore? Seems to me that a lot of random ideas are thrown in it like the werehog gimmick or Sonic holding a sword in Black Knight. Why the hell does Sonic need to hold a sword? Because it looks cool to little children? And why he needs to punch enemies with his fists? Weren't his spikes his main weapon all along? I mean wasn't it the reason they made him a hedgehog? Because he could curl like a ball (makes sense for the speed related theme and the pinball themed stages) and use his spikes as a weapon? Also, wasn't Knuckles supposed to be the punching guy? And why did Sonic needed to be a brawling game anyway?

I have no idea why Sonic would hold a sword, I refused to play Black Knight or the previous game. I hate motion controls.

I think Sonic should roll, spindash, jump on robots, stuff like that. He should be like a saw due to his spikes spinning. The werehog was for a change of pace, for people who like combat and exploring. It could have been done a lot better. Why they never just used Knuckles is beyond me. If I was in charge the game would be co-op and online: Sonic and Tails in platformer stages, Werehog and Knuckles in brawler stages.

At what point a stupid random idea that comes to someone's head becomes a random stupid idea in a Sonic game instead of a "fresh mechanic"?

Sonic Team maybe has ADD collectively.