Sweet Shooter Goodness...

[miked]

Why isn't there more love for the genny's harder to find shooters like Vapor Trail, Gaiares, and Air Buster? I personally think that Gaiares is freakin awesome, and just might be the greatest on the system. The graphics and gameplay are much better then Truxton; which I feel gets very repetitive. And yet people pay out the ass for Truxton, and somehow rank it above Gaiares!!?? I find Vapor Trail much more entertaining then shooters like Thunder Force 3 because of 2 player action. There in NOTHING on the snes that can touch the greatness that is Air Buster, Gaiares, & Vapor Trail!! Screw Twin Cobra; that game is stupid hard with hardly any fun factor to balance it out!! If you can beat any of the 3 shooters I focused on here, youre truly a skilled gamer.

[Genesis Knight]

I'm surprised Gaiares isn't more of a thing, agreed - it's very hard, obviously, but it's Renovation and has some sweet music and cutscenes. There are worse shmups that are more popular! Air Buster is also cool, just because I think decent non-RType horis are harder to find than verts. Again, though, pretty hard.

Vapor Trail I disagree with - it strikes me as painfully mundane and yet people are willing to pair a fair penny for CIB.

[Mega Drive Bowlsey]

Maybe the love isn't there for the very reason you mentioned, namely that they are hard to find and are not well known at all outside of the Mega Drive/Genesis community and even then the fact that a lot of scrolling shooters are tougher than chewing on diamonds puts a lot of folk off. I'm all for a challenge but some of those titles were ludicrously hard. My fave scrolling shooter on the Mega Drive is still Thunder Force IV.

[miked]

Vapor Trail has very good music, a somewhat clever power-up system where u can shoot the item til you get the power-up u want, AND TWO PLAYERS AT ONCE!! that is where I think the game gets the one up on most other shooters. Its also not crazy hard. Its very challenging; but not impossible like that stupid Twin Cobra!! Thunder Force 4 is better then Musha. There, I said it....

[Firebrandx]

I just do the T-Braster trick with the TOZ on Gaiares to make it easier. I know there's also the invincibility code, but I don't want it to be THAT easy. :-P

[miked]

The t-braster weapon is legit. It doesn't brake the game, and its not always available to you when you need it. But talk about a game with great graphics, music, gamplay, & some amazing backgrounds...its the shit!! Renovations was such a weird publisher....they have some of the beast games ever & some unplayable dog shit that shouldn't have ever seen the light of day. Mainly Earnest Evans & Beast Wrestler...Its amazing looking back at Sega's 3rd party support history. 8-bit in house games from sega weren't close to as good as Nintendo's first party games. I grew up with the sms. Loved it, but it always seemed so far behind the nes for game play. If sega hadn't gone all out to get some 3rd parties on board during the 16 bit days; we never would have had the library we know and love. The debate can be made about which console rules. But the same could never be said about first party titles....just a random thought

[Kamahl]

Gaiares is excellent in all categories. Gameplay, graphics, music, presentation. Vapor Trail I find meh, but I love the music.

Air Buster is good, but the weapon mechanic is too annoying, just drags the game down.

EDIT: For first party titles, Sega got a lot better during the 16 bit era. All of the following are first party Sega:

- The Sonic games
- Ristar
- Revenge of Shinobi
- Shinobi 3
- Streets of Rage series
- Phantasy Star series (4 in particular)
- Quackshot

These are the ones that stand out as absolute greats. Nintendo games weren't really any better than these, but they were revolutionary. That's the big difference.

[miked]

air buster & vapor trail are hard as balls and difficult because of the upgrade system in each. But they are 2 players simultaneously!! Does no one else play shooters with friends? Ive been considering putting together a game in my neck of the woods in MA. I thought it would be cool to hold competitions weekly or monthly with cash prizes for games like nhl 94, nba jams, Mario kart, etc...I just don't know enough gamer friends by me to make anything kewl happen;(

[Kamahl]

But they are 2 players simultaneously!! Does no one else play shooters with friends?

Unfortunately no. Don't know anyone else interested in shooters around these parts.

[miked]

Right on about sega getting better with their in-house games. My point was more about SMS first party compared to NES 1st party. We got games like Hang-on & Nintendo got Zelda. Then during 16-bit era Nintendo publishes gems like Mario World 1 & 2, Metroid, LTTP, and I believe Earthbound would be considered in-house. All the games sega came up with in house for the genny just fail to compare to the epic-ness. I love the Shinobi series and streets of rage 2, and PS 4; but its hard to back these as better games then Nintendo's.

[miked]

And no more trashing Vapor Trail!!! I promise its better then Truxton.

[Kamahl]

I love the Shinobi series and streets of rage 2, and PS 4; but its hard to back these as better games then Nintendo's.

Better no, but I'd take PS4 over earthbound anyday. Ristar over Yoshi's Island. Super Metroid is one of my favorite games ever, but Streets of Rage 2 is my favourite beat'em up ever. The original F-Zero is cool but it's not one of the best racing games ever, Shinobi 3 though? Top of the line action game. Depends a lot on how you look at the games.

What nintendo did do, much better than Sega, is make games that pretty much propelled entirely new genres. These games aren't "better", but they're revolutionary, which is actually a much more impressive thing. Sega was more about making superior versions of existing genres. PS1 was better than any RPG that came before it, by far.

[miked]

If you were to just boil down the libraries to first party only; Nintendo would put a beat down on poor little sega!! Comparing master system library to the nes in-house library makes it a miracle that sega thrived during the next gen. Ristar is very good, but I don't think its even close in gameplay and graphics to Yoshi's Island!!?? Even thou I freakin love the heck outta sega, it seems obvious that Nintendo had a lot more talent for game designers.

[Kamahl]

Ristar is very good, but I don't think its even close in gameplay and graphics to Yoshi's Island!!?? Even thou I freakin love the heck outta sega, it seems obvious that Nintendo had a lot more talent for game designers.

Compare the number of games Sega put out on the SMS vs the number of first party nintendo games. Nintendo focused on a few greats, Sega had to go for quantity by sheer need.

In the 16bit era Sega could focus a little more, but they still had way too many teams, and a lot of them did "meh" or downright "shit" games. And yes, Ristar both plays and looks better than Yoshi's Island. Yoshi's Island isn't that great looking, even for a SNES game. And gameplay? Baby mario, enough said.

[tryphon]

Which Nintendo games were so revolutionnary ?

SMB is not the 1st scrolling platformer, there were top-view adventure games before Zelda. I don't really see (I don't deny these games are masterpices).

We got games like Hang-on & Nintendo got Zelda.

No, you got games like Phantasy Star, Monster World (that can compare with any Metroidvania from this time), Psychofox. Best games on both platforms were of equal value.