Classic Gaming Quarterly takes a look back at the NA launch of the Sega Saturn.

[gamevet]

The PS3 was losing money for Sony up until 2010, when they could finally build the console for less than they were selling it for.

[Hans-CD]

I can't believe we have to explain the PS3 v 360 gen already! Time sure flies.

Ps3 at launch , actually up until let's be super nice and say late 2009 (uncharted 2), was in a pretty bad situation.
Actually, it reminds me a lot of Xbox One this gen. Lots of exclusives (though in my opinion not always as good as what was available on 360) but bad third party support together with a crazy price.
Xbox 360 was king of the hill until Uncharted 2 came out, around that time Sony started really lowering the price, then getting the SLim out and marketing the more for the gamers.Magically people who were having issues with their 360 changed system instead.

I bought everything at launch as always, but I clearly remember the long drought with Ps3. Then again, truth to be told, in 2010 the tables started turning so much that by 2012 PS3 went from a distant third to being in a tie for second place with 360 (then it surpassed it, but current gen was coming soon).
On software side the table started turning since late 2011 actually, that is when people started preferring PS3 versions of most multiplatform games ( bad ports like Bioshock or Bayonetta 1 were distant memories by then).

Really, gamevet was completely right when he said marketing is the most important thing. Marketing is what the Ps brand built itself on actually.
Let's not blame Kalinske for doing the most important job in a company, hooking up the fish!
A good salesman pitch sells a lot more than great specs.

[Crom]

Let's make a list of all of the things that contributed to the success of the Genesis:

-Timely release
-Relatively cheap production cost
-Easy-to-develop-for hardware
-Extensive first-party software development
-Strong third-party support
-Great advertising campaign
-Recognizable titles (arcade ports)
-Lax competition

and many more.

The success or failure of a home console depends on such a fine balance of so many factors.

Sega did not have any other smash successes out of its many attempts: Sega CD, Game Gear, Pico, 32X, Sega Channel, etc.

I see a lot of people here trying to say "The Genesis succeeded because of good marketing." Yes, marketing was a part of it, but that certainly cannot explain everything. Otherwise, Sega's other well-marketed attempts would also have done better. But even the absence of one of the above factors can spell failure for a console, no matter how well marketed it is.

The Genesis succeeded because of a "perfect storm" of factors. Trying to pin it on one particular thing or person is futile.

.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

.

Marketing I would say was the big reason for it's success though. Especially when we have systems that do the polar opposite of a lot of those aspects you've listed and are still successful due to good marketting (SNES, N64, PS2, etc.) Those systems did not have timely releases, cheap hardware, were difficult to develop for, and did not have lax competition. They did however have great marketing and good third party support as a result.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the most damaging aspect of the Saturn was not the hardware, price, or software. It was poorly handled launch in all regions. It was obviously rushed out the door with half-assed ports and it showed. Especially when compared to Sony's much more polished launch software. If Sega had just waited and did a later release around September-November of 1995, they could have a had a much stronger looking launch that would stack up better against the PS1. You'd have things like Virtua Fighter Remix instead of the glitchy original port. You could possibly have Sega Rally or even a better port of Daytona USA instead of what originally launched. And if Sega had ditched the 32X when it was still on the drawing board, some of those games could have been Saturn launch titles like Star Wars Arcade, Stellar Assault, Metal Head, Doom, Knuckles Chaotix, etc.

[Knuckle Duster]

While it was no PS2 at the start. It was still selling in more than decent numbers early in, despite the high price and a lame line up of games.



It was still selling in good numbers even in the USA. Hell people should remember that 360 1st years sales weren't that hot and half the time it couldn't outsell the PS 2 in month sales . It took a while for the 360 to really start to sell in massive numbers



The Ring of Death hurt MS a lot, but SONY was always doing a better in Europe and Japan and that really helped them in the long run. I agree with you on Kinect though



Yes so price isn't the be and end all . If people want your product they'll find a way to buy it. I'm sure if SEGA Japan had given Tom and his chums an amazing looking and playing Sonic 3D adventure than people would have bought a ton of Saturn's even at its high price . But too much is made with the Saturn high price as after a year it was cut down and at the start of a console only the real die hards buy the machines .
Tom screwed up with not getting SEGA America up to speed on next gen developers and not making or producing enough games for the American market, never mind splinting the SEGA fan base , SEGA development teams and SEGA PR budgets and 3rd party relations with backing either the Saturn or 32X . When with the threat of not just SONY but Nintendo , SEGA needed to 100% focused on 1 platform and backing and pushing only that system

The bias is real with TA.

"More than decent" PS3 launch sales. Xbox 360 launch wasn't a big deal compared to PS2? (No shit. What was?)

$599 US Dollars became a meme. Playstation's entire history of profit was wiped out with higher losses. It had worse looking, poorly performing ports of most multiplat games for like 4-5 years. They didn't even make a Dual Shock 3 for launch because they were too cheapskate to pay their dues to patent holders.

PS3 was a disaster.

[Gentlegamer]

$599 US Dollars became a meme. Playstation's entire history of profit was wiped out with higher losses. It had worse looking, poorly performing ports of most multiplat games for like 4-5 years. They didn't even make a Dual Shock 3 for launch because they were too cheapskate to pay their dues to patent holders.

PS3 was a disaster.

This is all true. And all the more amazing the recovery Sony made over the course of the generation.

[gamevet]

I can't believe we have to explain the PS3 v 360 gen already! Time sure flies.

Ps3 at launch , actually up until let's be super nice and say late 2009 (uncharted 2), was in a pretty bad situation.
Actually, it reminds me a lot of Xbox One this gen. Lots of exclusives (though in my opinion not always as good as what was available on 360) but bad third party support together with a crazy price.
Xbox 360 was king of the hill until Uncharted 2 came out, around that time Sony started really lowering the price, then getting the SLim out and marketing the more for the gamers.Magically people who were having issues with their 360 changed system instead.

I bought everything at launch as always, but I clearly remember the long drought with Ps3. Then again, truth to be told, in 2010 the tables started turning so much that by 2012 PS3 went from a distant third to being in a tie for second place with 360 (then it surpassed it, but current gen was coming soon).
On software side the table started turning since late 2011 actually, that is when people started preferring PS3 versions of most multiplatform games ( bad ports like Bioshock or Bayonetta 1 were distant memories by then).

Sony's mistakes with the PS3 are more than just the costs of the hardware itself. They launched the console with mediocre software and used the platform to push the Blu-Ray format. Sure, it was the most affordable (and best) Blu-Ray player on the market, but as a game console, it was getting its ars handed to it. Sony turned it around by focusing on games and catching up to the online features of Xbox Live. Their marketing of Blu-Ray was pretty much an afterthought heading into 2009.

Really, gamevet was completely right when he said marketing is the most important thing. Marketing is what the Ps brand built itself on actually.
Let's not blame Kalinske for doing the most important job in a company, hooking up the fish!
A good salesman pitch sells a lot more than great specs.

It's funny when everyone tries to say that Sonic was the main reason why the Genesis was successful in North America. Japan also had that title available on the Mega-Drive, yet they didn't have a clue about how to use that title as a marketing tool for the console. Tom saw the Genesis as a means to sell the razor, to sell the blades. He took a loss on the hardware and used the software as a means to make the profits back, and then some.

The guy took a pretty generic plastic doll hero (He-Man), from just another action figure, to one of the most iconic toys in the 80's. It wasn't just simple luck.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

The PS3 really is interesting to look at as a Saturn fan. Sony pretty much made almost all the same mistakes with the PS3 that Sega made with the Saturn. However Sony had the money and time to put into re-branding the system for what was essentially a relaunch 3-4 years later, which is what helped turn it around. It would've been interesting to see how something like that would have worked for the Saturn if Sega had the money and the time of an extra long console generation to try it.

[Team Andromeda]

"More than decent" PS3 launch sales. Xbox 360 launch wasn't a big deal compared to PS2?

Not what I said at all. After the 360 launched it hard time out selling the PS2 ( a system more than 5 years old) in most of Europe and even the PS2 in the USA. In fact the 360 1st year sales numbers weren't that great at all. And MS too had to cut its price to try and get better sales .

Playstation's entire history of profit was wiped out with higher losses

SONY losses were more than just the PS3 I think you'll find. SONY lost out big time with the move to LCD TV's (where it was slow to move on to the jump for LCD) and its mobile phone arm cost it a fortune and I'm not sure if its Computer sector ever made real money (no wonder they sold it off) . PS3 did make huge losses at the start, but some 4 years in it was able to sell the PS3 not cost price, but at a profit and of course the PS3 helped SONY win the format war too,

It's funny when everyone tries to say that Sonic was the main reason why the Genesis was successful in North America

That's because it was . After Sonic Mega Drive sales hit insane numbers and also because Sonic is the best selling MD game of all time .

yet they didn't have a clue about how to use that title as a marketing tool for the console

Like Tom and the rest of SEGA America with the Saturn , I guess.

And btw lets put an end to the PS debate . SONY never offered the PS to SEGA, and in June of 1992 decided to go it alone to make their own Console after the NCL put down . Her's the Edge Special on the making of the PS with Ken and Phil and 'lets chart our own course'

[Team Andromeda]

The PS3 really is interesting to look at as a Saturn fan. Sony pretty much made almost all the same mistakes with the PS3 that Sega made with the Saturn

They made more or less all the mistakes, other than no SONY America trying to make a add on to the PS2 to extend its life and be sold as stop gab . But SONY was 100% focused onthe format and also they had marketshare . So all the bullshit excuses of poor tools and being hard to develop on and complicated CPU that developers used with the Saturn, went out the window with the PS3 .

Its always about marketshare

[bultje112]

The SNES was going strong well into 1996 and the Genesis was still selling very well in late 1994 and early 1995.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128453

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=701305

pretty much prooves that kalinske called it right. 16 bit market was the market well until 1996

That's not what cost Nintendo. N64 was outselling PlayStation during most of 97. It was the drought of games and the huge third party push Sony received that hurt Nintendo.


Was Comix Zone the type of game expected to be competitive with Donkey Kong Country?

perhaps in the us. rest of the world not even close

[bultje112]

This place sometimes just makes me laugh ... I thought SEGA was meant to have killed the Mega Drive in 1995, now its meant to be one of the best selling systems in 1995 and 1996 . In 1996 PS sales were really good and strong and helped by games like Resident Evil and Crash ECT



PS was selling better and its software was dominating all the charts in late 95 and 96 . Snes was always going to last that bit longer that the MD given it came out 2 years latter and also the fact that SGI had to delay its N64 chipset by over a year.



Yes The deal with Nintendo was to provide a CD drive for the Snes, but also has part of the deal SONY was also going to bring out its own separate stand alone machine. Sony did push ahead and wanted to bring out its Snes PS, but then that was dropped

what are you talking about? genesis sold 2 million in 1995(won't even go into software sales) in us against 400,000 saturns. pls explain this and how 32 bit market was >>> 16 bit market

[Team Andromeda]

what are you talking about? genesis sold 2 million in 1995(won't even go into software sales) in us against 400,000 saturns.

The Saturn was a dead duck inthe USA. The PS sold over 800,000 units alone by Christmas of 1995 in the USA in Europe its goes on to sell 600,000 units too in 1995. So that blew apart Tom's big idea that they wasn't a market. And in 1996 Sony go on to sell 3 million units in the west alone with price cut couldn't make enough PS systems .

Nice one TOM !

[gamevet]

Those numbers are way off. It took 9 months for the PlayStation to hit 1 million units (shipped?) sold in the US. The PlayStation sold around 300k by the end of 1995, compared to the pautry 125k Saturns sold.

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/PlayStation

[gamevet]

That's because it was . After Sonic Mega Drive sales hit insane numbers and also because Sonic is the best selling MD game of all time.

Right?

Sega of Japan couldn't even get the Mega-Drive out of 3rd place in its own country. Sonic should have lifted the MD out of a distant 3rd place, but those idiots in Japan didn't have a clue about how to sell product.

And btw lets put an end to the PS debate . SONY never offered the PS to SEGA, and in June of 1992 decided to go it alone]

Sony announced that they were going to release their 16-bit version of the Play Station in 1993. Ken's little project was still being researched at that time. There was no 32-bit PlayStation prototype in 1992.