Digital Foundry (Official Thread)

[Folco]

If we're talking Nintendo overall, then yes, the handhelds saved their asses. Other than when the Wii came out, that has been the only reason Nintendo has stayed afloat since 1996.

Prove it ;-)

Overall profits remained similar between the SNES era and N64 era.
If N64 sold much less third-party software compared to SNES, at the same time N64 sold more first-party software than SNES (of course first-party games earn higher profit margin compared to just collect the licensee/cart production fee).

Nintendo historical data:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=963700

Yep! You have to give NOA a lot of credit for their clever marketing and sustained support of the SNES beyond 1997. They didn't try to battle every console that came along in 1993, and stuck to their software strength with the SNES. Meanwhile, Sega segregated their Genesis user-base with the Sega CD and 32X creating confusion for those that bought the console, and they didn't have much momentum heading into the 32-bit console race.

Nintendo didn't do anything special with SNES.
The ongoing strong software support until 1996 was just the consequence of SNES being introduced late in US (1991) and N64 being late (1996), it wasn't an exceptional long period.

Sega on the other hand was really idiotic.
Mega CD have some merits so I understand why they tried that add-on (the positive impact the CD addon had on PC Engine was worth to take note) but I can't understand who thought it was a good idea to invest resources on a quasi-next gen addon when Sega best interest was to focus solely on their future which was the Saturn.
It's like Sega didn't understand the basic concept that for a console manufacturer the priority is to ensure their next platform is a success, even at cost of short term profits, because if it isn't you are fucked for an entire generation.
Look at Nintendo they cancelled an assured million-seller like Starfox 2 to not damage the perception of their next console that wasn't even out (in the end Starfox 64 became the best selling title in the series).

[Black_Tiger]

It's like Sega didn't understand the basic concept that for a console manufacturer the priority is to ensure their next platform is a success, even at cost of short term profits, because if it isn't you are fucked for an entire generation.

This literally describes how Nintendo threw away their dominence in the video game market during the period you're describing. They relied on taking advantage of publisher and customer loyalty for too long with the their first two consoles. The Nintendo 64 was the ultimate slap in the face and they likely would have become a third party publisher if it weren't for the fluke success of Pokemon. Even if Pokemon never happened, the Gameboy might not have carried them.

[Folco]

This literally describes how Nintendo threw away their dominence in the video game market during the period you're describing. They relied on taking advantage of publisher and customer loyalty for too long with the their first two consoles. The Nintendo 64 was the ultimate slap in the face and they likely would have become a third party publisher if it weren't for the fluke success of Pokemon. Even if Pokemon never happened, the Gameboy might not have carried them.

My belief is that no gaming company could have won against Sony that generation because Sony not only had a good product in their hands (good performance/cost ratio), could leverage resources unthinkable for pure gaming company (owning the fabs, distribution channel already in place in Europe etc.), but more importantly the internal company dynamics was favorable to Sony to gain third-party support faster than Nintendo and Sega could have because Nintendo and Sega still operated with the old assumption that first-party software was what pushed their own system and therefore saw third-party as rivals to keep under their control while Sony started from zero and understood that they could just attract more third-party support than the other two to be competitive because no matter how ace your arcade games are or how revolutionary your first-party games are in the end the output a single company can publish is limited compared to all the other publishers combined.

As for Nintendo they acted as they always did in the '80s and '90s, that is as a dominant entity however Sony changed the landscape (to be more precise Sony was riding the change) and that totally threw out Nintendo possibilities to gain the crown.
The entry fee to compete with the new Sony model was so high that every pure gaming company which manufactured consoles except Nintendo exited the market between the second half '90s and early '00s.

As for the bolded, data (link above) disprove your statement.
Since Nintendo exhaust their growth in the early '90s, their profits were always quite stable until the Wii/DS boom when they sharply spiked and 3DS/WiiU which was Nintendo darkest time (first losses ever since they entered the gaming industry).

[sull56ivan2010]

[QUOTE=Folco;778630]Prove it ;-)

Overall profits remained similar between the SNES era and N64 era.
If N64 sold much less third-party software compared to SNES, at the same time N64 sold more first-party software than SNES (of course first-party games earn higher profit margin compared to just collect the licensee/cart production fee).

Nintendo historical data:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=963700


The profit excuse. At the expense of losing their audience more and more until the Wii and DS came out.

[Folco]

The profit excuse. At the expense of losing their audience more and more until the Wii and DS came out.

Thank you to let me know to not take you seriously.

[Thief]

Thank you to let me know to not take you seriously.

Well don't just stop there. Explain yourself, because I don't follow and would like to know.

[Gogogadget]

How does making more money equate to losing their audience?

[sull56ivan2010]

Thank you to let me know to not take you seriously.

You know how many times I've heard that lame ass excuse for the last five years? A lot. Unless you can figure out why each home console of Nintendo's, barring the Wii, has declined since the NES, I'll keep seeing profit posts as an excuse and the handhelds as the reason why they stayed afloat, especially when the GBA came out.

[Soulis]

That game made me cringe every time I walked into Best Buy, because they had it showing on the massive multi-screen display above. I'm pretty sure that the employees were ready to quit, after many months of hearing baby Mario crying relentlessly.

Some times i wonder if people who hate this game have any other argument except Mario's cry sound.

[Gogogadget]

The Mario Cry sound is annoying, but it's hardly a reason to write off what is genuinely a really good game.

However if I worked in a store with a demo and I heard it on the daily yeah i'd probably of took of my own life.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I thought these might be interesting to post. A channel on youtube has been comparing Capcom Fighters across Saturn, PS1, and other systems and it's pretty in depth:







It's kind of neat seeing how close the Saturn ports were to the Arcade even going back to the first Alpha. It's also kind of funny considering how much praise the PS1 port got while the Saturn port got some flak from a certain magazine.

[gamevet]

Nintendo didn't do anything special with SNES.
The ongoing strong software support until 1996 was just the consequence of SNES being introduced late in US (1991) and N64 being late (1996), it wasn't an exceptional long period.

Sega on the other hand was really idiotic.
Mega CD have some merits so I understand why they tried that add-on (the positive impact the CD addon had on PC Engine was worth to take note) but I can't understand who thought it was a good idea to invest resources on a quasi-next gen addon when Sega best interest was to focus solely on their future which was the Saturn.
It's like Sega didn't understand the basic concept that for a console manufacturer the priority is to ensure their next platform is a success, even at cost of short term profits, because if it isn't you are fucked for an entire generation.
Look at Nintendo they cancelled an assured million-seller like Starfox 2 to not damage the perception of their next console that wasn't even out (in the end Starfox 64 became the best selling title in the series).

Yeah, they did. The introduced the Super FX Chips that allowed games like StarFox and DOOM to run on the console. They also had chips like the DSP, SA1 and CX4 that allowed for data compression for titles like Street Fighter Alpha 2, faster CPU speed and math co-processing for titles like Mega Man X2 and X3.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ment_chips#DSP

[bultje112]

Prove it ;-)

Overall profits remained similar between the SNES era and N64 era.
If N64 sold much less third-party software compared to SNES, at the same time N64 sold more first-party software than SNES (of course first-party games earn higher profit margin compared to just collect the licensee/cart production fee).

Nintendo historical data:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=963700


Nintendo didn't do anything special with SNES.
The ongoing strong software support until 1996 was just the consequence of SNES being introduced late in US (1991) and N64 being late (1996), it wasn't an exceptional long period.

Sega on the other hand was really idiotic.
Mega CD have some merits so I understand why they tried that add-on (the positive impact the CD addon had on PC Engine was worth to take note) but I can't understand who thought it was a good idea to invest resources on a quasi-next gen addon when Sega best interest was to focus solely on their future which was the Saturn.
It's like Sega didn't understand the basic concept that for a console manufacturer the priority is to ensure their next platform is a success, even at cost of short term profits, because if it isn't you are fucked for an entire generation.
Look at Nintendo they cancelled an assured million-seller like Starfox 2 to not damage the perception of their next console that wasn't even out (in the end Starfox 64 became the best selling title in the series).

[Gogogadget]

Well he's right, making a bunch of addons for the Megadrive clearly helped Sega

[bultje112]

he claims nintendo did nothing while they clearly did ad chips to their games making them cost a 100$ I remember well.