Sonic Mania/ Sonic Mania Plus (XB1, PS4, PC, Switch)

[bertodecosta]

When I read your post earlier today, I found myself nodding in agreement. Reading some of the comments thus far, I hope they don't bother releasing a Sonic Mania 2 for quite a long time. Only then will people appreciate the titles released thus far.

Since Sonic Mania is a 25th Anniversary, like a greatest album remixed plus more songs, I bet we wouldn't have Sonic Mania 2 soon.
Not until 30th anniversary at least.

[Joe Redifer]

That said, I couldn't begin to tell what's wrong with an individual that can outgrow Sonic, yet somehow not Mario....

Mario has better/more play mechanics than Sonic. Sonic is hop and bop. And run. That's more or less it. Mario has evolved in gameplay throughout the years and most things don't feel forced on. Mario translates very well into 3D. Sonic absolutely does not. The only thing they really added to Sonic is the homing attack in the 3D games... and I think Rush uses it too? One problem I have with Sonic's design was very apparent in Mania. You start going REALLY fast and all of a sudden you loop around and are suddenly running the other way. You instinctively change directions on the d-pad so you're pressing the way Sonic is running and he comes to an abrupt stop. That's right, if you were blasting right you're supposed to KEEP HOLDING RIGHT no matter what direction he starts running! But even if you do this, the game will eventually decide that you're pressing the wrong direction when he goes left and abruptly Sonic will put on the brakes. It can't make up it's own mind!

Also Tails is a shit character. Makes me glad I never had a little brother. Super annoying. He is the reason I didn't purchase Sonic 2 when it was released and rented it instead as all the mags showed Sonic running around with Tails. I did not welcome Tails. Green Mario is way better than Tails.

[avlon]

Mario has better/more play mechanics than Sonic. Sonic is hop and bop. And run. That's more or less it. Mario has evolved in gameplay throughout the years and most things don't feel forced on. Mario translates very well into 3D. Sonic absolutely does not. The only thing they really added to Sonic is the homing attack in the 3D games... and I think Rush uses it too? One problem I have with Sonic's design was very apparent in Mania. You start going REALLY fast and all of a sudden you loop around and are suddenly running the other way. You instinctively change directions on the d-pad so you're pressing the way Sonic is running and he comes to an abrupt stop. That's right, if you were blasting right you're supposed to KEEP HOLDING RIGHT no matter what direction he starts running! But even if you do this, the game will eventually decide that you're pressing the wrong direction when he goes left and abruptly Sonic will put on the brakes. It can't make up it's own mind!

Also Tails is a shit character. Makes me glad I never had a little brother. Super annoying. He is the reason I didn't purchase Sonic 2 when it was released and rented it instead as all the mags showed Sonic running around with Tails. I did not welcome Tails. Green Mario is way better than Tails.

I'm in agreement with your first paragraph, but I have to disagree about Tails. I find him far more fun to play than Sonic... especially in 3. That said, I don't particularly like any other Sonic characters that were introduced after Tails.

[j_factor]

Mario games tend to be comprised of a lot of very small levels. I always thought it was pretty weak that Mario 3 and World both have flying power-ups but don't do much with them. There's not much vertical space to the levels most of the time. Even when levels have two exits, it's usually a case of finding a hidden spot, not an actual alternate route. Sonic's levels tend to have multiple ways to get through them, and not just route A or B, but different small sections that you can mix and match. I feel Sonic's main strength is the level design, which is also Mario's weakness. The enemies in Sonic are also much more interesting, more varied, and more specific to the different levels. And Sonic has always had way better music.

Another thing is that when I play a Mario game or something similar, I find myself holding down the run button at almost all times. Maybe it's just me, but the way I've always played platformers is not to lollygag. Despite what some people say, Sonic isn't "all about speed" in the sense of simply going really fast, but it is definitely better suited to a quicker-paced play style.

[midnightrider]

Wasn't exactly approaching that bit from a gameplay perspective...

[Raijin Z]

Barring Sonic 2's bonus stages, Tails could never really interfere with Sonic, making him the perfect player for LET YOUR LITTLE BROTHER/SISTER/RAMPANT AI WITH A MECHANICAL HUMANOID BODY PLAY, TOO moments, or just serious co-op fun with someone who was as good at the game as you were. I consider Mario games to be a whole other kind of game, so there's no real direct comparison between Sonic games and Mario games. Unless you compare Mario Kart and Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed, in which case the latter is more fun in that it doesn't overtly seek to embarrass the player with egregious rubber-banding and rule-breaking. Mario Kart plays like its wife is going to be murdered if the player comes in first too often, and the player must be stopped, no matter the cost. But I digress. Funny how there's a complaint about Sonic games making you pay attention to which direction you're going, and reacting accordingly, instead of having to hold right to win. In any case, either is vastly superior to europlatformer garbage like Aero, Bubsy, and the myriad other "collect the useless widgets in idiotically-laid-out levels with no gameplay-changing powerups for a crap ending" games.

[Kamahl]

Hey, not all euro platformers were terrible! Flink, Puggsy, Mega Turrican and Mickey Mania are all very good.
#NotAllEuroPlatformers

[Baloo]

Sonic Mania is no perfect game, but to be honest the originals had their share of problems either.

To me, I think the biggest and really only major problem with Mania is the zone selection and design. The boss battles are by far the most inventive of any Sonic game to date. But most of the zones are just the opposite. They have some cool gadgets, but bringing back 8 of the zones and making the other 3 new ones rehashes of previous Sonic zones was boring. Titanic Monarch was basically a mash-up of Scrap Brain, Carnival Night, and the Bonus Stages from Sonic 3 and Knuckles. You can see this in the rest of the stages too. Press Garden Zone reusing elements from Launch Base Zone. Mirage Saloon Act 1 rehashing Wing Foretress Zone from Sonic 2 in Act 1, and Quartz Quadrant from Sonic CD in Act 2. Likewise, bringing back Blue Sphere for the Bonus Stages was also a nostalgic play and a bit bland. I played through 18 of these or whatever in S3&K. They're fun, but not fun enough that I want to play through them again. I think this is part of a larger recent trend in video games though of just remaking and rehashing old games for the nostalgia factor. Who didn't play Castle of Illusion, or Ducktales Remastered, or Shovel Knight? Mighty Gunvolt? In the latter's case, is it really original if it's the exact same gameplay but with new stages? Perhaps that really is the only defining thing about 2D sequels to games: Level design. Those of us who have played through 6 Mega Man games with little more than new levels and one gadget or power-up here or there: Is it really that different when it boils down to it? But for Mega Man fans, every single one may not be the best, but you're playing them anyway because they have new levels.

2D games by the hardware nature have never been terribly inventive at all, Mario being the exception between the first 4 of his series that all managed to be significantly different from each other in feel and design while still being reminiscent of the first and memorable.

Overall, I think Sonic Mania is a fantastic game. But I can't understand why some are disappointed. New Zones is the defining feature of any sequel of 2D games. People don't want new gameplay mechanics. They just want new environments to explore. So that's where to me, Sonic Mania falls flat.

My CE is still on its way, so I haven't played this yet.

Anyone who's played willing to do a Hands-On for the site? I have images but no write-up.

Also:

I know this is late but I'd love to do one.

[Blades]

Mario evolved? That's a joke. Mario games are just as boring today as they were 20 years ago. The only jewel was SM64, and that's only because it had a new mechanic.

[Raijin Z]

Mario actually devolved. The last, what, six "traditional" Mario games released have all been identical, barring a few powerups. At least Mega Man gave us wildly different types of stages, hazards, and bosses.

[Baloo]

I was speaking specifically to the first four 2D Mario games. Not the recent stuff. Take it easy.

[Thief]

Funny how there's a complaint about Sonic games making you pay attention to which direction you're going, and reacting accordingly, instead of having to hold right to win.

Think Joe was referring to Flying Battery Act 2 where if you don't hold the opposite direction to move forward upside down, you fall to your doom. Complete BS moment since I found it impossible to react to since that was also the first time this mechanic was introduced to my knowledge in this game. There should of been a non-instant death example of this earlier or this one should have been that introduction example without the instant death penalty. Or better yet, just not have an instant death for failing to react to this game mechanic in time like past Genesis Sonic games.

Hey, not all euro platformers were terrible! Flink, Puggsy, Mega Turrican and Mickey Mania are all very good.
#NotAllEuroPlatformers

I made it all the way to last stage in Mickey Mania, and from that experience I wouldn't call it very good.

#Eurotrash

[Thief]

Sonic Mania is no perfect game, but to be honest the originals had their share of problems either.

To me, I think the biggest and really only major problem with Mania is the zone selection and design. The boss battles are by far the most inventive of any Sonic game to date. But most of the zones are just the opposite. They have some cool gadgets, but bringing back 8 of the zones and making the other 3 new ones rehashes of previous Sonic zones was boring. Titanic Monarch was basically a mash-up of Scrap Brain, Carnival Night, and the Bonus Stages from Sonic 3 and Knuckles. You can see this in the rest of the stages too. Press Garden Zone reusing elements from Launch Base Zone. Mirage Saloon Act 1 rehashing Wing Foretress Zone from Sonic 2 in Act 1, and Quartz Quadrant from Sonic CD in Act 2. Likewise, bringing back Blue Sphere for the Bonus Stages was also a nostalgic play and a bit bland. I played through 18 of these or whatever in S3&K. They're fun, but not fun enough that I want to play through them again. I think this is part of a larger recent trend in video games though of just remaking and rehashing old games for the nostalgia factor. Who didn't play Castle of Illusion, or Ducktales Remastered, or Shovel Knight? Mighty Gunvolt? In the latter's case, is it really original if it's the exact same gameplay but with new stages? Perhaps that really is the only defining thing about 2D sequels to games: Level design. Those of us who have played through 6 Mega Man games with little more than new levels and one gadget or power-up here or there: Is it really that different when it boils down to it? But for Mega Man fans, every single one may not be the best, but you're playing them anyway because they have new levels.

2D games by the hardware nature have never been terribly inventive at all, Mario being the exception between the first 4 of his series that all managed to be significantly different from each other in feel and design while still being reminiscent of the first and memorable.

Overall, I think Sonic Mania is a fantastic game. But I can't understand why some are disappointed. New Zones is the defining feature of any sequel of 2D games. People don't want new gameplay mechanics. They just want new environments to explore. So that's where to me, Sonic Mania falls flat.



I know this is late but I'd love to do one.

Like I've said, The Force Awakens formula. Because this is where this trend started gaining serious traction due to crazy amount of cash it brought in, crazy amount of play it safe cash. So you can see why this is so trending these days with investors.

[Gogogadget]

When I read your post earlier today, I found myself nodding in agreement. Reading some of the comments thus far, I hope they don't bother releasing a Sonic Mania 2 for quite a long time. Only then will people appreciate the titles released thus far.

So basically, they should stop making good games so we are forced to buy shitty ones

Yeah that won't work

[Kamahl]

I made it all the way to last stage in Mickey Mania, and from that experience I wouldn't call it very good.

It's not as good as the Magical Quest series or the Illusion series but it's still quite good. Unlike most euro games it has responsive controls and linear levels that are sequences of interesting set pieces (instead of expansive levels filled with random crap). Besides the crappy boss fights there isn't much I would change.