Quantcast

Page 10 of 30 FirstFirst ... 6789101112131420 ... LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 439

Thread: Hardware pushed to the limits according to Sega-16 members

  1. #136
    Road Rasher
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    419
    Rep Power
    27

    Default

    I always found SMS Fire & Forget II very impressive, tho it's probably some cheap trickery. Nevertheless it's by far the best version of the game, supposedly the game was dev'ed on SMS and then ported. Some catchy PSG music also. Note that being an euro game it should be played on 50hz, on 60hz it's nearly unplayble.

    Only vid I could find that was played in 50hz

  2. #137
    WCPO Agent segarule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    822
    Rep Power
    24

    Default

    goldenband, what you think about this?

    See footbag
    "I wanted to create something that the Famicom wouldn’t have been able to do..." (Kotaro Hayashida)
    Wii is dying. Last game Just Dance 2020. Thanks for all!

  3. #138
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    4,673
    Rep Power
    103

    Default

    ^It's a cleverly designed and very good game, but AFAIK all the techniques it uses are well-known tricks on the Atari 2600: varying color by scanline, using sprite cloning to create copies of objects (like the second row of trees), etc.

    The player character is colorful and large, but easy to build since there's nothing else happening on those scanlines (except the super-simple footbag sprite, which I'm guessing uses the ball object).

  4. #139
    So's your old man! Raging in the Streets zetastrike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Posts
    3,713
    Rep Power
    91

    Default

    Goldenband, what about Killing Time for 3DO? I remember Ewhac and Gammadev mentioning in their videos how it uses a true 3D engine and (I'm trying to remember specifics and failing) that it's doing a lot of things at the same time with the map and enemies, which is why it runs rather choppily.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Black Falcon
    Nope. Bloodlines is the problem, not me. I have no trouble with Super Castlevania IV (SNES) and Dracula X: Rondo of Blood (TCD), and have finished both games. Both of those are outstanding games, among the best platformers of the generation. In comparison Bloodlines is third or fourth tier.

    No, it's unbiased analysis. The only fanboyism is people who claim that Hyperstone Heist and Bloodlines are actually as good as their SNES counterparts.
    My Collection: http://vgcollect.com/zetastrike

  5. #140
    Road Rasher
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    488
    Rep Power
    19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zetastrike View Post
    Goldenband, what about Killing Time for 3DO? I remember Ewhac and Gammadev mentioning in their videos how it uses a true 3D engine and (I'm trying to remember specifics and failing) that it's doing a lot of things at the same time with the map and enemies, which is why it runs rather choppily.
    Yeah Killing Times level structure is pretty impressive for the 3DO... and console FPS of its time in general. That game is a couple frames per second from being my favorite 3DO game.

  6. #141
    ding-doaw Raging in the Streets tomaitheous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Sonoran Desert
    Age
    47
    Posts
    3,981
    Rep Power
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryoandr View Post
    I always found SMS Fire & Forget II very impressive, tho it's probably some cheap trickery. Nevertheless it's by far the best version of the game, supposedly the game was dev'ed on SMS and then ported. Some catchy PSG music also. Note that being an euro game it should be played on 50hz, on 60hz it's nearly unplayble.

    Only vid I could find that was played in 50hz
    What do you find impressive about it?

  7. #142
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    4,673
    Rep Power
    103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by saturndual32 View Post
    Yeah Killing Times level structure is pretty impressive for the 3DO... and console FPS of its time in general. That game is a couple frames per second from being my favorite 3DO game.
    I think that's probably why I'd hesitate to name it to a "hardware pushed to the limits" thread, since other FPSes on the system managed a much better framerate. Pretty impressive game even so, though it suffers from a nasty bug that had to be addressed with a mail-in replacement disc.

  8. #143
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    4,165
    Rep Power
    79

    Default

    Which is also why I don't like when people say the Shenmue proto on the Saturn is impressive, it runs at a slideshow framerate. Although admittedly it was a debug build that had optimizations turned off, but even then. Besides most of the best looking stuff was just good texturing, not detailed models.

    Also back to the point, 3DO has this (somehow better than the PS1 and Saturn ports):



    Or heck the game bundled with the Panasonic 3DO (skip to 3:22 for gameplay)



    Or like several other games. Really, the 3DO was always meant for 3D games so 3D in itself isn't impressive. Also looked up Killing Time and it's nothing compared to the two videos I just posted.

  9. #144
    WCPO Agent segarule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    822
    Rep Power
    24

    Default

    What do you find impressive about it?
    I agree with you. I dont see nothing impressive about it. But you could say to us if you point some SMS game that you think that pushed the hardware to limits in your opinion?
    "I wanted to create something that the Famicom wouldn’t have been able to do..." (Kotaro Hayashida)
    Wii is dying. Last game Just Dance 2020. Thanks for all!

  10. #145
    Road Rasher
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    488
    Rep Power
    19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Which is also why I don't like when people say the Shenmue proto on the Saturn is impressive, it runs at a slideshow framerate. Although admittedly it was a debug build that had optimizations turned off, but even then. Besides most of the best looking stuff was just good texturing, not detailed models.
    Wasnt the Saturn Shenmue demo running at about 15 FPS?, thats not too bad for its generation. After all, N64 Zelda games ran at barely 20 FPS, didnt they?. Its also close to the framerate of Panzer Dragoon Saga. And of course the Shenmue demo had room for improvement. Even at that frame rate, nothing on that genre looked that good for the Saturn.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Or heck the game bundled with the Panasonic 3DO (skip to 3:22 for gameplay)



    Or like several other games. Really, the 3DO was always meant for 3D games so 3D in itself isn't impressive. Also looked up Killing Time and it's nothing compared to the two videos I just posted.
    But Crash and Burn is using some sort of prerendered track, didnt it?. And the cars are prerendered too. Looks great and moves smooth, but t feels really limited.

  11. #146
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    4,165
    Rep Power
    79

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by saturndual32 View Post
    But Crash and Burn is using some sort of prerendered track, didnt it?. And the cars are prerendered too. Looks great and moves smooth, but t feels really limited.
    Tracks aren't prerendered (note how the camera always stays centered on the car, it wouldn't be able to do that if the track was prerendered), cars seem to be sprites though. But again, don't forget this is a launch game on a console during a time where 3D was a complete rarity everywhere.

  12. #147
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    4,673
    Rep Power
    103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Also back to the point, 3DO has this (somehow better than the PS1 and Saturn ports):
    While some of the issue is probably just lazy/rushed porting, the 3DO did have a few interesting hardware advantages over the PS1 (not sure about the Saturn). Here's what I wrote a while ago when my memory was fresher:

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    I also think the 3DO was more flexible in dynamically allocating color bit depth to textures and/or polygons; IIRC it had all kinds of different options, whereas the PS1 was far more granular, which in turn caused memory shortages and/or reduced color counts when games were ported from 3DO > PS1. ewhac and gammadev talk about that at some point.
    I'm pretty sure it was in their Star Fighter gameplay video that they discussed that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Tracks aren't prerendered (note how the camera always stays centered on the car, it wouldn't be able to do that if the track was prerendered), cars seem to be sprites though. But again, don't forget this is a launch game on a console during a time where 3D was a complete rarity everywhere.
    FWIW Crash 'n Burn does use a trick to improve rendering times, though I'm not sure how standard it is. Again, quoting myself (but more recently):

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    Crash 'n Burn - streams pre-compiled "lists of visible parts" from disc so that the program already knows what the player can/can't see and doesn't have to calculate it, yielding massive improvement in performance
    Apparently they used a program to simulate driving down the track, put together those "lists of visible parts", and went from some pathetic number of FPS to the result we now see.

  13. #148
    Hero of Algol
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,315
    Rep Power
    202

    Default

    “As part of the crew back then, we had Mark Cerny as our resident super genius programmer. Even then, he had brilliant design insights. He had done Marble Madness and Sonic 2; in fact, a lot of the early crew came from Sega. Madeline Canepa came from Sega. Mark Cerny had come from Sega. He was really instrumental in creating our early engines that were able to draw these 3D streaming worlds. Crash n’ Burn, Total Eclipse, and Off-World Interceptor were all based on that core technology.
    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...-dynamics.aspx

  14. #149
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    4,673
    Rep Power
    103

    Default

    The post I had in mind came from one Gregg Tavares at Crystal Dynamics, FWIW:

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!se...do/2297E2KsDOI

  15. #150
    Hero of Algol
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,315
    Rep Power
    202

    Default

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to goldenband again.

    This is the best part IMO:
    On CnB we wrote a program that would 'drive' down the track and for each section of the track it makes a list of all the parts that can actually be seen. These 'lists of visible parts' are then stored in the CD and as you drive down the track the 'list' for the part of the track you are currently on is loaded. This makes it run faster because we don't have to do all the calculations for which things are visible while you are racing.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •