Why do people have issues with others not being fans of the SNES?

[EyeDeeNo76]

So my eye does not lie. But I think Zombies Ate My Neighbors is a bad example because of the black info bar on the right of the Genesis version.

Edit: They put these (1.1 and 4.3) options into the NES Mini.

[Kamahl]

That isn't Speccy enough! Where's the rule of "One 8*8 tile can only have 2 colours, whatsoever"?

It's even more restrictive then that, each 8x8 tile can only have 2 colours of the same intensity
Replicating that sonic screenshot using the actual platform limitations would pretty much require redrawing everything from scratch.
I just wanted to show that both the SMS and NES master palettes are great compared to the alternatives.

[Thief]

So my eye does not lie. But I think Zombies Ate My Neighbours is a bad example because of the black info bar on the right of the Genesis version.

Edit: They put these (1.1 and 4.3) options into the NES Mini.

The black bar is the only reason anything will be squished on Genesis Hi-Res mode if directly ported from SNES. Sure Konami could of just used Genesis low-res mode to match SNES resolution exactly, like most games did, but they did it like that to better squeeze extra info needed. That and SNES has easier time with life bars and what not, because SNES has an extra background layer it can dedicate this to. While Genesis, on the other hand, usually brute forces this with sprites (Circus Mystery) or black border (TMNT Hyper Stone).

Only for TMNT Hyper Stone (which is low-res to match SNES exactly, by the way), we lose some background graphics due to black bar for health display cutting it off (in SNES, you can see more background graphics behind lifebars). Versus in Zombies, we lose nothing due to extra information display being handled in the horizontal resolution of Genesis hi-res mode. Only side affect to this is squished image.

[goldenband]

I'd love to see a list of games on the SNES and Genesis that show less of the playfield in the SNES version because of stretched pixels. Itchy & Scratchy is one, and it really affects the gameplay. I suspect there must be more.

(Then, I suppose, we'd have a list of Genesis games that lose screen real estate to HUD features that are transparent in the SNES version. Toys is one of those.)

[Kamahl]

Lion King is one where it really affects the gameplay. I can manage the double ostrich jump on the MD version. The SNES one is next to impossible for me, the extra input delay just makes it even worse.

[Sik]

Phantom 2040 does it too. Even more amusing, the weapon screen is 256px (like on SNES) but in-game it's 320px. This means the health bar will change size when you go change your weapons. Whoops?

[Black_Tiger]

I'd love to see a list of games on the SNES and Genesis that show less of the playfield in the SNES version because of stretched pixels. Itchy & Scratchy is one, and it really affects the gameplay. I suspect there must be more.

(Then, I suppose, we'd have a list of Genesis games that lose screen real estate to HUD features that are transparent in the SNES version. Toys is one of those.)

I believe that many Genesis games also distort the original perspective by porting elements pixel for pixel, but the games use a different resolution.

[Barone]

Amazing analysis Barone, cant rep you right now, but will do ASAP. Comparing the game with the SNES version, what in-game advantages does the Sega port have, that are related to what you posted?

The MD version simply has a lot more going on screen all the time, bigger sprites, better tile variability for each stage, etc.
The charged shots, for an example, were cut from the SNES version and they are supposed to look big. One could argue they couldn't fit them in the cartridge (which has 8 Mbit just like the MD one) but its ROM has like 14-15 KB of empty space that could store the required animation.

The whole "Oh, you can't compare both 'cause the SNES version is a re-imagination for the console public" argument sounds like bullshit to me. I think the Data East developers simply struggled to port the arcade game and decided to re-design it as a bummer version of it that could fit in what they were capable of doing with the SNES hardware at the time.
'Cause even the sections which are very similar to the arcade/MD version show far less concurrency and variability of enemies on screen. Things are more sparsely presented even if the graphics for those objects and enemies appear in the game at some point.

I was having a deeper look into Joe & Mac and things are more interesting than I first realized.

SNES version seems to run/scroll/move things on the screen at 30 fps vs 60 fps of the MD version.
Some bosses seem to animate slower on the SNES as well, like the carnivorous plant one. If it's animated at 30 fps on the MD, it might be 20 fps or maybe 15 fps on the SNES.

By looking at the SNES VRAM on debuggers, it's actually loading a lot of the sprites to VRAM when needed in order to fit things inside the 16 kBytes limitation; on the MD all the enemies animations is loaded to VRAM just once, 'cause it has enough room for that.
This need of constantly transferring stuff to the VRAM might be the reason why they capped the frame rate in the SNES version and why some enemies animate slower; according to some nesdev discussions I'm reading lately (Killer Instinct animates just one fighter per frame AFAIK, Mickey Mania also capped the frame rate of the enemies animation, etc.).

The size reduction of enemies on the SNES version seems to be related to the VRAM area dedicated for each one of them in the sprite system they implemented for this game.
Each enemy has to fit its sprites inside an arbitrary amount of space (1 kB for regular enemies and 2 kB for most bosses). And these sprites are double-buffered for some reason (pardon me for my sheer ignorance here).

Another interesting info which gives a notion of how the limitation of having to choose just two sprite sizes on the SNES can make things way more complicated is:
The main character uses two sprites for his standing frame in the MD version. On the SNES it uses eight sprites.
Two sprites for the crouching frame on the MD. Four sprites on the SNES.
Four sprites on the MD for the regular jump frame. Ten sprites on the SNES.

[Kamahl]

But Barone, every tech spec list for the SNES says 128 on the sprite category vs 80 on the Genesis. Even the Nerd said so! Clearly that must mean it is better at handling sprites. Same for the 512 pixel maximum resolution, that is totally what every game ran at and why they look so much better.

/s

[Barone]

shhhhhhhh

Ben Heck may hear you and he'll spread those expert secrets in his next "in-depth" hardware analysis.

[Team Andromeda]

I still don't get why people for both sides of the camp , just can't give each machine credit . Both systems were brilliant and did stuff the other system would have issues with . So it was great to own both systems and enjoyed what both had to offer

I only wished the Mega CD ASIC chip was used more for effects like this ingame

[Sik]

I still don't get why people for both sides of the camp , just can't give each machine credit . Both systems were brilliant and did stuff the other system would have issues with . So it was great to own both systems and enjoyed what both had to offer

Because people see a larger sprite count and think it's better without realizing there's another limitation that negates this benefit.

This said, there is one thing the SNES sprite system has that is better no matter how you look at it: any 8px silvers that are off-screen don't factor into the bandwidth no matter the size of the sprite, while on the Mega Drive even off-screen sprites eat bandwidth. This gives the SNES some more wiggle room before hitting the scanline limit, which can be useful if there's a lot of stuff going on, or more importantly to use it as a second plane when mode 7 is in use.

I only wished the Mega CD ASIC chip was used more for effects like this ingame

YES PLEASE

The main idea behind the add-on was the scaling/rotation enhancement features, yet aside from Core Design it seems devs didn't give it any thought. I guess nobody was interested on the Sega CD in the first place, and then you have Digital Pictures jumping in and releasing a tad of FMV games giving everybody the impression that was the main advantage of the system and scared anybody who could have cared away. Fucking hell.

[Flygon]

Funny thing is, when I look at the Sega CD, it's the sound system I find juiciest. You have something that can basically stream samples to the RAM, and have access to the rest of the Mega Drive's sound system.

Nevermind the possible craziness you could have with the onboard CPU either mixing or generating samples. Of course, maybe I'm just too focused on the music and not so much on the graphic.

[Team Andromeda]

Because people see a larger sprite count and think it's better without realizing there's another limitation that negates this benefit.

This said, there is one thing the SNES sprite system has that is better no matter how you look at it: any 8px silvers that are off-screen don't factor into the bandwidth no matter the size of the sprite, while on the Mega Drive even off-screen sprites eat bandwidth. This gives the SNES some more wiggle room before hitting the scanline limit, which can be useful if there's a lot of stuff going on, or more importantly to use it as a second plane when mode 7 is in use.

I get that, but some Mega Drive fans are acting to no better than the Snes fans this thread took issue with . Both systems could do wonderful stuff and each one did something the other console would find hard to do - It was a great era of gaming and made owning both systems a think to do .

The main idea behind the add-on was the scaling/rotation enhancement features, yet aside from Core Design it seems devs didn't give it any thought. I guess nobody was interested on the Sega CD in the first place, and then you have Digital Pictures jumping in and releasing a tad of FMV games giving everybody the impression that was the main advantage of the system and scared anybody who could have cared away. Fucking hell.

John O'Biren used the chip a lot too and so did Game Arts but those were the only real ones . Sonic CD makes great use of the chip for the DA Garden and clouds on the title screen only to make next to use of it in-Game - when all the bosses should have made use of the chip in some shape or another . Fair play to Core Son Of Chuck makes use of ASIC chip in Game for some extra effects over the Mega Drive version and it looks really impressive and shows what could have been done .

[Barone]

I still don't get why people for both sides of the camp , just can't give each machine credit . Both systems were brilliant and did stuff the other system would have issues with . So it was great to own both systems and enjoyed what both had to offer

I get that, but some Mega Drive fans are acting to no better than the Snes fans this thread took issue with . Both systems could do wonderful stuff and each one did something the other console would find hard to do - It was a great era of gaming and made owning both systems a think to do .

You're so hypocrite and full of shit it hurts.
You've stalled this and countless other threads for dozens of pages just 'cause you can't handle "reading" anything not appreciative about the sacred cows of The Church of TA's Wondermega.

Hadn't you and chilled harped so much about the SNES' superior hardware and software quality, then me, Kamahl, Sik, etc. maybe wouldn't even have posted in this thread.