Sonic 3 Complete VS Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and everything in-between. My thoughts on it.

[Thief]

Of all the levels I really like Mushroom Hill Zone, especially as you progress the level scenery changes in those 'autumn' colors. Makes me feel cozy... but stacking them all up, honestly S3 and S&K are dead even to me with the exception of Carnival Night Zone; that was my least favorite stage, and even then I think it's a good level. And I nailed this on my first try age six:

Yeah, I was one of the few or many that got stumped for some time the first time I got here. But I'm pretty sure I figured it out on my own soon after. Still, sure was frustrating the first time I got stuck there. I actually even thought maybe my copy of the game was glitched.

[Thief]

I always thought neither game made sense without the other. When you realize they're one game the difficulty curve works out pretty well. To me, both games feel like they're missing something when they're separated but there's no way I can look past a bias I've had since I was a kid. Sonic 3 & Knuckles is one of my favorite games of all time and I've played it to the point where it's difficult for me to step back and analyze. It's all so ingrained into me that I can't really look at the levels critically since I breeze through them so effortlessly and have such fond memories of the entire package.

So maybe my opinion would be different if I had a fresher set of eyes but I'm too far gone to really judge Sonic 3 and S&K against each other as separate experiences.

I will however say each game has a single Zone I don't care for. Carnival Night in 3 (no I didn't get stuck on the barrel as a kid and I didn't even know this was a problem for people until I was an adult) and Sandopolis in S&K (though I give them kudos for trying something different unique with it).

Keep in mind Launch Base zone was toned down difficulty wise by quite a bit so the difficulty transition between the two games were smoother. This video here does a nice side by side comparison on how that was achieved (@4:15);

[molul]

Sonic and Knuckles levels on the other hand are freaking frustrating. Mushroom Hill Zone is decent. Sandopolis Zone is absolutely frustrating and puzzle like. Reminds me a lot of something that would be in Castle of Illusion. Lava Reef Zone Act 1 is great, Act 2 is meh. Hidden Palace Zone is boring. Death Egg Zone tried my patience unbelievably, and I felt like I was playing Zero Wing or Thunder Force IV with the music the entire time. Miniboss is unbelievably hard, while the 2nd Boss is unbelievably easy. Sky Sanctuary Zone has amazing music, but looks really ugly for a Sonic game. It makes you wonder if the level was really finished. I think Sky Sanctuary Zone looks like something out of a Sonic ROM Hack. The Doomsday Zone is probably the best epic Final Final boss in all of the series though, and it makes getting the chaos emeralds worthwhile.

Wow. I could agree Sandopolis is boring and long, but:

-Mushroom Hill: not a great first zone (it wasn't meant to be), but music is very cool (I love the drums breaks every now and then), and the season change was a nice touch.

-Flying battery: probably the best level.

-Lava Reef: finally a proper lava zone in a Sonic game! Music in act 1 is awesome, but when the lava cools down after the mini boss fight and the act 2 music begins, that's one of my fondest Sonic memories.

-Hidden palace: just a transition stage, but we fight Knuckles with the prophecy artwork behind!

-Sky sanctuary: one of the best tunes, it really fits the visuals, sounds like you are ascending a tower in the sky. Fighting Mecha Sonic's homage to old boss was nice. And what about the cutscene to Death Egg?

-Death Egg: to me, the best final zone ever in a Sonic game. Music is very cool, gimmicks everywhere (that gravity flip), and the boss chain is epic: boss, epic boss (two transformations), chase Robotnik, then Doomsday zone.

-Doomsday zone: the best final boss in a Sonic game.

Of course I understand the op's opinion but, oh my, when I read the zones impressions I felt the need to write this post xD

[Baloo]

Wow. I could agree Sandopolis is boring and long, but:

-Mushroom Hill: not a great first zone (it wasn't meant to be), but music is very cool (I love the drums breaks every now and then), and the season change was a nice touch.

-Flying battery: probably the best level.

-Lava Reef: finally a proper lava zone in a Sonic game! Music in act 1 is awesome, but when the lava cools down after the mini boss fight and the act 2 music begins, that's one of my fondest Sonic memories.

-Hidden palace: just a transition stage, but we fight Knuckles with the prophecy artwork behind!

-Sky sanctuary: one of the best tunes, it really fits the visuals, sounds like you are ascending a tower in the sky. Fighting Mecha Sonic's homage to old boss was nice. And what about the cutscene to Death Egg?

-Death Egg: to me, the best final zone ever in a Sonic game. Music is very cool, gimmicks everywhere (that gravity flip), and the boss chain is epic: boss, epic boss (two transformations), chase Robotnik, then Doomsday zone.

-Doomsday zone: the best final boss in a Sonic game.

Of course I understand the op's opinion but, oh my, when I read the zones impressions I felt the need to write this post xD

Just randomly saw this when going back over some old posts...but our opinions really aren't that far off. I would say looking back that my opinions of S&K are a little harsh...my real main problems with the game are just the drudgery of MORE blue sphere zones to get the Super Emeralds, the awfulness that is Sandopolis Zone Act 2, and I wasn't a huge fan of Death Egg. But as a combined game...Sonic 3 & Knuckles is still by far one of my all-time favorite games. There's just more polish overall on it than any other game in the series, save Sonic Mania. But Sonic Mania unfortunately was harangued by the fact that it was mostly recycled zones. Now if that game had 3/4s new zones in the vein of Studiopolis and Mirage Saloon, hands-down it would be the best Sonic game. But as it stands, Sonic 3 Complete is the best.

[Genesis Knight]

Baloo, what are the Japanese sci-fi movies you associate with S&K's look?

[zyrobs]

Baloo, what are the Japanese sci-fi movies you associate with S&K's look?

Don't know about movies, but there was a comparison a while back showing a ton of similarities between S3&K and Laputa: Castle in the Sky.

[Baloo]

Baloo, what are the Japanese sci-fi movies you associate with S&K's look?

The vibe of Death Egg Zone reminds me a ton of the anime movie Macross: Do You Remember Love? Of course the Death Egg itself is lifted from Star Wars. And its interesting the comparisons of Laputa: Castle in the Sky to Sky Sanctuary Zone, as that is my favorite Miyazaki movie!

Just bumping this thread becahse I bought a Genesis Model 1 and Sonic 3 Complete as a cart repro Genesis and am playing through it again during COVID-19 quarantine. The Genesis Classic Mini had input lag so bad that it wasnt fun to play on there, plus emulation doesn't quite have the same feel.

My points mainly still stand about Sonic 3 Complete, but actually this time around I have come to appreciate Mushroom Hill Zone as a great zone, and I enjoy the music. Nothing beats Sonic 3 Complete with the proper music cues and Flying Battery Zone in its original place. I can play this game over and over again and kudos to whoever did this hack.

Also, does anyone else feel that playing as Super Sonic sucks the fun out of the game? I got all of the emeralds by Carnival Night Act 2 and blew threw it and the Zone 2 boss. Then turned the game off to finish later. I dont think it is fun at all to play as Super Sonic really. Sucks the enjoyment and challenge out of the game.

But Sonic 3 Complete has its perch at the top of best Genesis games for me. The ultimate rom hack.

[Assman]

Also, does anyone else feel that playing as Super Sonic sucks the fun out of the game? I got all of the emeralds by Carnival Night Act 2 and blew threw it and the Zone 2 boss. Then turned the game off to finish later. I dont think it is fun at all to play as Super Sonic really. Sucks the enjoyment and challenge out of the game.

I agree and I disagree. I've always been a collectard when it comes to the emeralds, so for years I made it my goal to snatch all chaos emeralds by Hydrocity and all super emeralds by Mushroom Hill before proceeding to wreak all havoc as Super/Hyper Sonic at any given opportunity with few exceptions (those exceptions being Hydrocity and Ice Cap as I refused to miss out on those groin grabbingly transcendent tunes).

In recent years, however, I largely avoid transforming unless I'm feeling particularly vulnerable in a dodgy area with hundreds of rings and no shield. I do find it to affect the enjoyment to some extent and certainly the challenge, but I still often find it to be an absolute blast. I'm ambivalent. Groin grabbingly ambivalent.

[Baloo]

How are you able to get all super emeralds by Mushroom Hill Zone? I thought you could only get one per entry to the Master Emerald room?

[Barone]

But Sonic 3 Complete has its perch at the top of best Genesis games for me. The ultimate rom hack.

The only thing I wish would be added to it is a complete rewrite of the original games' audio system.
'Cause the awful PCM playback quality really hurts the soundtrack or, at least, keeps it from unleashing its full potential.

(those exceptions being Hydrocity and Ice Cap as I refused to miss out on those groin grabbingly transcendent tunes).

In recent years, however, I largely avoid transforming unless I'm feeling particularly vulnerable in a dodgy area with hundreds of rings and no shield. I do find it to affect the enjoyment to some extent and certainly the challenge, but I still often find it to be an absolute blast. I'm ambivalent. Groin grabbingly ambivalent.

I totally agree with this.

[Assman]

How are you able to get all super emeralds by Mushroom Hill Zone? I thought you could only get one per entry to the Master Emerald room?

Sonic can get to at least 7 giant rings on the route I normally take. Looking it up now I'm seeing claims that he can get to 8, but I can't remember if I've seen them all.

[axel]

Wow, I had the opposite reaction as most of you. I thought S&K was just as good as S3, Mushroom Hill is my favorite "Level 1" of the series. Sandopolis Zone was tricky at first but I didn't find it bad at all, the barrel was way worse because there's no indication not to jump. Overall I consider S3&K to be one of the greatest platformers of all time.

I'll have to give S3 Complete a try though.

[joyeux]

Sonic 3 Complete has some features that IMO improves and takes the experience to a new
level. For example, the total control of Super Sonic transformation, allowing to transform or go back to normal at your will, changes the game's pacing for me. I tend to play collecting the most rings I can, and when I get unprotected from any Shield, I activate Super Sonic. When I find another shield, I go back to normal.

Sonic 3 feels more fresher and diverse then S&K IMO. The color tones are brighter and the music has a vibrant MJ feel. S&K stages feels darker and overly long, like Sandopolis Act II. Listening to the arabian theme and playing the long stage makes me feel a little sick. I still think the game is great, but still a little subpar with Sonic 3. When both games are combined, it is really a very nice experience.

[axel]

S&K stages feels darker and overly long, like Sandopolis Act II. Listening to the arabian theme and playing the long stage makes me feel a little sick.

I was going to say "it's not that bad is it" and then I realized I can still hear every note of the Sandopolis theme in my head even though I haven't played the game in ages, there is probably a reason for that...

[joyeux]

It's not bad, Sandopolis is a well designed stage, but a slow one. Maybe they were too successful making the player feel like being in a desert. 😁 Time Over everytime for me, because I lose a lot of time collecting rings.