Pier Solar: Official Thread

[NeoVamp]

Lets not forget those of us squeezed into 'Needing' a preorder to obtain a copy due to continuous hints of unavailability rather than have the option of waiting for the product to be finished.

THIS!!


Really felt like mafia business imo.


Ey, if you want one better buy now eh, otherwise no game for you at all,
only one print, is only release ever future unknown eh!

[Zebbe]

We're completely honest when we say this edition won't get another run, for various reasons. We are not obliged to produce more copies of it when it's sold out, nor are people obliged to pre-order. We are just telling how things are. We are dumb for letting people wait so long with their money on our account, and we are dumb for not producing more copies for those who don't want to wait long without their money. We are also dumb for not publically telling everything about each development decision, like all professional game publishers have done with all their delayed games.

This is the first time we are doing this and we know we have done many mistakes, but we are doing OUR best with the situation at hand and our top priority is to make the game you are expecting and the game we have promised to deliver. If you aren't happy with that, we have since May 1st given the refund option. For those who are happy with it, you also have an update to read on the website.

Sorry if I've sounded harsh now and the last few days, but I'm equally frustrated about this as many of you are. However, I'm equally confident that the game will be great (to me, only topped by Chrono Trigger and Phantasy Star IV 16-bit RPG-wise) the day it is done and I'm working every day to achieve it.

Thank you so much for the support, everyone!

[Devil N]

WM is a team of non-profit and volunteer game developers, which means unexpected things can happen that you can't plan for. Well, that pertains to most developers, but it's not like they can devote all their time to this project as it is. Setbacks happen, members leave and then they are pushed back a few steps in trying to re-make what was lost.

That is very true and that is also why WM still has a lot of credit left to burn. I've been involved in several hobby/fan game projects myself, and I know how hard it can be to produce something worthwhile with a loosely knotted team, especially when everyone's got other things on their minds as well. The only thing you could accuse Zebbe & co. of in this regard is being too optimistic, and occasionally confusing optimism with confidence.

Give them some damned slack, if you ask me. Demanding things adds a ton of pressure, and to unrealistically ask for a deadline time like you are their publisher is downright rude. They aren't required to give you a definite outline timetable.

They have gotten an immense amount of slack. To be honest, I'm very surprised that this backlash hasn't started any sooner. Don't forget it's been nearly a year now since the original deadline was missed, and they haven't had much to show for in the meantime.

Now that would all be well and good if Pier Solar was still a fancy hobby project. Nobody would have any right to complain if it were just a for-fun kind of thing. But that all changed drastically on September 1st 2008, when they first started taking pre-orders. That's when the game changed into a commercial product (non-profit perhaps, but still commercial), the supporters became paying customers, and the developers committed themselves to giving their customers a return on their investment. You cannot take these things lightly anymore once you start receiving money.

Do paid developers/publishers give you a timetable and when big setbacks happen (anyone remember half life 2?) do you call them out and demand blood? No, you don't. Just because this is a small time operation does not give you the right to try and bully them into giving you some timetable just to shut you up.

That's because professional developers do not make any commitments directly to their end users (the gamers). Developers have an agreement with their publishers, and it's the publisher who acts as the customer in that accord. If the developer can't keep to their schedules, it will be the publisher who gets to make the demands. They can choose to either delay the game or to rush it to release unfinished. And if the publisher decides to delay a game, what are you as a gamer going to do about it? If you happen to have pre-ordered the game, then that's something between you and the retailer; neither the developer nor the publisher can be held directly accountable.

Actually I will give you a time table if you so want... here it is:

The game will be finished when it is done.

That's what they said about Duke Nukem Forever. Every other serious game developer/publisher (even id Software) has already stepped away from that mantra, because it is simply unsustainable in the real world.

[Lorfarius]

Can someone confirm what' sactually going to happen when all the preorders sellout? Is that it the game will never be sold again?

[Knuckle Duster]

I just signed up to Sega-16 Forums.... what a bunch of whiny QQing spoiled brats. Some of the concerns are legitimate, but a lot of them are trying to call you guys out saying that the game is mediocre at best in relation to graphics, sound, story etc. If they didn't like the way things are looking then I advise them to shut up and cancel their preorder. Nuff said.

It's nice of you to presume you need to advise us with your infallible wisdom on a different message board entirely.

Today we see a 'good' update from Tulio, & Zebbe's continued faith comparisons in the project reaffirms it's potential greatness.
A realistic release date should still be set. How about "April Fools Day 2010"?

[Zebbe]

It will be sold again, but not in this exact form. We haven't planned anything, but there are some ideas we will go through when the game is sold out.

[Knuckle Duster]

The game would make a killing being ported & published on:

XBLA
PSN
WiiWare
NDS

[websurfer]

I'm still very much looking forward to this game.

A few months ago it seemed Beta testing was going to be happening "soon". Zebbe's update a few days ago greatly disappointed me. It honestly seemed, to me at least, like alot of work was left to be done and it might not even make a 2010 release, that disappointed me.

The game would make a killing being ported & published on:

XBLA
PSN
WiiWare
NDS

Yep after it's finished and sold out I expect it to show up on at least one of those places. Maybe even the Iphone/Ipod Touch.

I hope a PC version with the Sega CD music shows up. Can they get a PC version onto a service like Steam?

[Xonticus]

It's nice of you to presume you need to advise us with your infallible wisdom on a different message board entirely.

Today we see a 'good' update from Tulio, & Zebbe's continued faith comparisons in the project reaffirms it's potential greatness.
A realistic release date should still be set. How about "April Fools Day 2010"?

I'm actually very glad that you read the official boards often. I also see that your infallible wisdom is being put to good use on here as well We all know you are obviously omniscient and all knowing so your wisdom is well met by our malleable minds. Bravo.

@ Devil N

Yes we know about the developer/publisher relations and how they work. You still cannot deny that one of the best developers out there, Valve, still goes by that "It's done when it is done" attitude and makes amazing games.

My point is, we aren't the publisher here. Someone said earlier about us being investors, yes I do agree with that. As an investor, knowing time tables is good. BUT, when I preordered the game, I knew that my investment didn't have an exact timetable, which is a gamble in any investment. From the youtube video released a couple months back showing the physical progress of the development ( You guys HAVE seen that one, yes?) and the constant, but slow trickle of updates, my confidence is still there.

And knuckle duster, call me blind or whatever you want, but I call it confidence. You have to learn to be more trusting, friend. I fear for the people who hold no trusts in their lives, no less on a mere fan project. Call me naive if you must, get that out of your system so we can continue talking about the future of this project, not the past.

[matteus]

I get the impression alot of people haven't seen the video...

[Xonticus]

I get that impression too. ENJOY!

[Lorfarius]

Is there any more plans to release more vids or screenshots? I can understand a lot of people being frustrated about the moving release date but the news page is a bit...barren. A few more tidbits might help ease the pain

[matteus]

Is there any more plans to release more vids or screenshots? I can understand a lot of people being frustrated about the moving release date but the news page is a bit...barren. A few more tidbits might help ease the pain

In response to your question, yes we could release more videos, images, etc, etc but if we did that we'd end up showing you half the game and thats really not the idea We want to leave people with something they'll be impressed by it! Not boot it up and think "oh yes I saw most of this on the website!"

[jerry coeurl]

You don't have to show most of the game in order to keep a news page updated. Just a weekly blurb about the progress being made would probably cut down on the backlash substantially.

[Devil N]

Yes we know about the developer/publisher relations and how they work. You still cannot deny that one of the best developers out there, Valve, still goes by that "It's done when it is done" attitude and makes amazing games.

Valve is a big exception to the rule. Ever since the introduction of Steam, Valve has effectively been their own publisher, so they have nobody to answer to but themselves. Sure, they've got some deals with other publishers for physical releases, but in all those cases it's been Valve pulling the ropes, while the publishers just had to be happy they could share some of Valve's success.

Besides that, I'm sure that behind the scenes the people at Valve are a highly disciplines bunch, working under strict deadlines for each project. They just appear on the outside to have this "when it's done" mentality, because after all they get to decide for themselves when they think a project will be done.

Getting back to the topic at hand, I'd like to emphasize that my criticism here is not because I mistrust WM or lack of faith that they'll ever finish the game. On the contrary, I honestly sympathize with them, because I can imagine that the pressure and expectations are becoming grueling by now, and working on the project probably isn't as much fun anymore as when they started. I wish them all the best in their efforts and sincerely hope they can release themselves from this burden very soon.

Even so, I do think some constructive criticism here is certainly justified. I think the guys at WM have grossly underestimated what they were getting themselves into and are now in way over their heads. During the process, they made some serious mistakes and promises were made that they realistically could never keep. I don't mean to rub it in, but it definitely needs to be said. Let's hope it's been a good learning experience.