Pier Solar: Official Thread

[retrospiel]

They did the same thing with Pac-Man too.

[108 Stars]

Absolutely. Like I said we had to scrap plans for visible monsters for example; it just was not doable in a way that makes works well with what was done. It is impossible to fulfill every wish.

With SO I am just saying it because it seems an especially obvious point to most gamers (the random encounter rate I mean), making it more sad that people did not know of SO's planned release earlier so that it could have been changed in time. That's all.

Iam quite excited about SO myself, I was hoping for a ROM-release for 3 years... since drx found it but suddenly went silent on the matter (we now know why).

I have been very annoyed with Phantasy Star II and III's many battles, so I fear my long-awaited SO will now be as tedious for me. :/

[retrospiel]

I understand keeping the integrity/feel of games from that era, but if you have the ability to provide an improved version/mode as well as something that is close to the original game, why not do it?

What the lead programmer of the game said:

"That's how we would change the battle rate. It would not be significantly difficult to watch a debugger as it steps through the 68000 opcodes and figure out how it's deciding when it's time to fight. I'm sure either myself or the other programmer could figure this out, if that was what Brandon wanted."

So not that difficult, just cut the encounters in half and double the EXP except for the bosses.

For the most part SFT is making games the way a single person sees fit; and the thing with the random encounters shows just how easily one man can miss a flaw that is very obvious to most others.

With SO I am just saying it because it seems an especially obvious point to most gamers (the random encounter rate I mean), making it more sad that people did not know of SO's planned release earlier so that it could have been changed in time. That's all.

Again, my point was this: It seems to me a conscious decision by SFT to show their respect for the original game. It most definitely is not something that slipped their radar.

[snotmaw]

My copy came today and I couldn't be happier. Rarely do I ever play a game that feels like a lot of love and time were put into every detail and this is one of them, thanks WM

[108 Stars]

Again, my point was this: It seems to me a conscious decision by SFT to show their respect for the original game. It most definitely is not something that slipped their radar.

I don't think so. SFT changed games before and did so with SO; just not in regard to that point. Brandon stated in the thread he did not feel a change was neccessary. So it was unawareness of this being an unpopular feature in RPGs.

[retrospiel]

How do changes to Legend of Wukong and CMA saying that he did not feel a change was necessary hint at unawareness ?

[Zebbe]

Maybe the fact that you have to grind up to level 15 to beat the first dungeon, followed by the game getting easier, easier and much easier until the final boss which can be killed in two rounds?

[cheaterdragon1]

Maybe the fact that you have to grind up to level 15 to beat the first dungeon, followed by the game getting easier, easier and much easier until the final boss which can be killed in two rounds?

I found the enemies in the dungeons to be very difficult. The bosses were the ones that were easy. If only Brandon had upped the difficulty on the bosses.

BTW I don't think you can defeat him in 2 turns, because he will heal. I think you need 3 or 4 turns. Which of course is still bad.

[retrospiel]

Maybe the fact that you have to grind up to level 15 to beat the first dungeon, followed by the game getting easier, easier and much easier until the final boss which can be killed in two rounds?

You're talking about Wukong, I assume. I can imagine that this probably is yet another reason why Star Odyssey was not modified in this regard. Changes like this are likely to introduce loads and loads of additional problems. *cough*Streets of Rage 3*cough*

[Zebbe]

BTW I don't think you can defeat him in 2 turns, because he will heal. I think you need 3 or 4 turns. Which of course is still bad.

I think I killed him in two turns. I used all my best attacks with my three characters and the sixth attack killed him.

[108 Stars]

How do changes to Legend of Wukong and CMA saying that he did not feel a change was necessary hint at unawareness ?

Are you kidding me? You say he probably wanted to keep the game close to the original so he consciously decided not to change it. Yet that was never a concern with either BP or Wukong. And other things were changed even in SO itself. So he does not seem to care about keeping it as original as possible, but to improve.

So it eludes me how the frequency of battles would be the one thing that must stay true. He says he did not feel they needed to be reduced... so he was obviously unaware that it would have been a good thing to change that for most.

[Zebbe]

(You're talking about Wukong, I assume) - I can imagine that this probably is yet another reason why Star Odyssey was not modified in this regard.

Because SFT want their games poorly balanced? I would have done what someone else suggested: halfed the encounter rate and doubled the EXP (except on bosses).

[retrospiel]

Are you kidding me?

No.

You say he probably wanted to keep the game close to the original so he consciously decided not to change it.

Yes.

Yet that was never a concern with either BP or Wukong.

I am not aware of major changes made to BP (aside of bugfixes and some dialog) ?

And other things were changed even in SO itself.

The list he posted was a list of very care- and respectful bugfixes. The only thing that was changed were the previously unheard voices when the playable characters die which might still fall under bugfix depending on how you look at it.

So he does not seem to care about keeping it as original as possible, but to improve.

Even if previous works would proof the opposite, you cannot exclude the possibility that perspectives change over time.

So it eludes me how the frequency of battles would be the one thing that must stay true. He says he did not feel they needed to be reduced...so he was obviously unaware that it would have been a good thing to change that for most.

I don't think these things are mutually exclusive. You can think that a change is not necessary and keep the localized version as close to the original as possible both at the same time.

Because SFT want their games poorly balanced?

I haven't played Star Odyssey yet but I did not feel that Beggar Prince was poorly balanced ? (although a bit on the easy side, but I've yet to see a really challenging RPG)

I would have done what someone else suggested: halfed the encounter rate and doubled the EXP (except on bosses).

Sounds like a very good idea but I am not sure if it really would have been that easy.

[108 Stars]

The text changes to BP have been rather substantial according to Brandon.
And now SO has text changes aswell to add the "space age humor", the restored SFX, lower case letters and an item that now has a new use.
So I don't see any logic in consciously keeping the encounter rate very high if you are aware it will be an unpopular decision. The one thing where you can be sure players will complain about you consciously don't change while others you do change?

No, I don't think so. I think he was unaware what a favorite topic of gamers' complaints this is nowadays and did not attempt it for that reason.

SFT wants its games to be enjoyed by as many as possible, so naturally he would have tried to improve on that. Brandon just thought it was no big deal as I understand it.

[Zebbe]

I haven't played Star Odyssey yet but I did not feel that Beggar Prince was poorly balanced ? (although a bit on the easy side, but I've yet to see a really challenging RPG)

I happened to mean Legend of Wukong again. If you want a challenging RPG, try Wizardry IV.

Sounds like a very good idea but I am not sure if it really would have been that easy.

If they took the original Blue Almanac ROM instead of the half-broken canned Star Odyssey ROM with removed content and full of bugs and fixed that up, maybe they would have had time and resources enough to investigate and fix the random encounter rate and EXP curve.