As a Sega Genesis gamer, do you care about stretched aspect ratio?

[retronostalgia]

I always used to think, as a Genesis owner, that its square pixels were a big point in its favor vs. the SNES. But in the last few years I've learned:

* The Genesis had a 256x224 mode just like the SNES did, and as a kid I never (I think?) noticed when games used it.

* Pixels in the SNES's (and Genesis') 256x224 mode aren't 5:4 aspect ratio, as I'd assumed, but 8:7

* Pixels in the Genesis' 320x224 mode aren't square either. (Though they're *close*, at 32:35) Does any emulator offer a mode that matches this?

See here for more info: http://pineight.com/mw/index.php?title=Dot_clock_rates

Anyway, to answer the question, I prefer screen and pixel aspect ratios to be as close as possible to what was originally intended. Both early NES emulators (square pixels, oversquished) and full-screen 16:9 pictures (too-wide pixels, overstretched) look terrible IMO. I'd much rather have black bars and a slightly smaller picture!

[axel]

Welp :v

Virtua Fighter 32X has a widescreen mode it seems. 2D graphics are still stretched but the 3D graphics are corrected for widescreen.

How can such a thing be possible? The Genesis layers are stretched, the 32X layers aren't?

[Sik]

Because all it does is change the matrix used for the 3D transformations (polygons can have its vertices placed arbitrarily, so shrinking them horizontally isn't a big deal). The 2D graphics are not scaled at all because they aren't rendered through that. Some widescreen games on later systems do something similar too.

Note that the pixels are not 1:1 in widescreen, the resolution remains 320×224 :​P

[Yohko16]

* The Genesis had a 256x224 mode just like the SNES did, and as a kid I never (I think?) noticed when games used it.

Ye but on Mega Drive 256x224 pixels is the low resolution and less commonly used mode while on SNES it's the default resolution ^^

Personally I can notice when Mega Drive games run in low res mode, they lack definition and have wrong aspect ratio compared to the games in 320x224 pixels. Some games even alternate both, like Crusader of Centy which runs in 320x224 pixels for the most part except the title screen which is displayed in 256x224 and looks all wrong compared to the rest :P

[derFunkenstein]

Pixel shape to me is irrelevant. The games were generally made with art that was designed to be stretched to the shape of a 4:3 CRT so I always play with stretched pixels to fit 4:3. Doesn’t matter if it’s a Genesis game or SNES. They’re made for 4:3 regardless of pixel shape.

[Yohko16]

Pixel shape to me is irrelevant. The games were generally made with art that was designed to be stretched to the shape of a 4:3 CRT

Not true.

Most SNES games for example have graphic assets made without taking 4:3 stretching into consideration. It's easy to spot with things supposed to be square or round and which end rectangle or oval on SNES but it's not only squares or rounds, it's everything which has wrong aspect ratio.

Also stretched pixels is stretched pixels and it's not good either.

4:3 is the best rendering for system of that time so it's just a fail here.

And as if the aspect ratio issue wasn't enough, SNES resolution is also smaller than Mega Drive (20% smaller) and multiplats suffer big time from this, with cropped screens which is annoying, especially with games which scroll, which is the majority of games lol, but not only as things such as puzzle games also suffer. Puyo Puyo 1 and 2 on SNES have the opponent portrait in his playfield more likely because it wasn't possible to put it in the middle and this affect the presentation a lot.

[Gryson]

Yes, regarding the SNES, there are many games that were not designed correctly with 4:3 in mind, including the Mario games:



(source)

The OP's point was that there is a lot of debate in the SNES community about playing at 4:3 or not, since there are so many games not designed for it.

Are there Genesis games that exhibit the same problem?

(PS: funny to see people still posting about 16:9 stretching without reading OP )


Edit: So I looked at Monster World IV, which runs at 256x224:



Proportions are definitely wrong at 4:3. Look at the misshapen circle of the tunnel hole and the squares of the wall/floor.

Here's a list of other low-res Genesis games:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/...ode%20List.txt

Are any designed with 4:3 in mind?

[Sik]

The Sonic CD special stages (which run at 256×224) actually account for the aspect ratio difference. Which is also what irks me when people use the Sonic sprites as-is in hacks in parts running at 320×224 -_-

[Yohko16]

Yes, regarding the SNES, there are many games that were not designed correctly with 4x3 in mind, including the Mario games

Yup.

The OP's point was that there is a lot of debate in the SNES community about playing at 4x3 or not, since there are so many games not designed for it.

Most SNES fanboys are blind anyway so it doesn't matter for them xD

But ye, there are also legit SNES fans and I can see why this resolution issue hurts and same goes for the NES.

But games should be played in 4:3 anyway, playing in a square is not good (at least IMO) so they have to deal with stretched pixels and usually wrong aspect ratio or simply forget that the NES and SNES exist ^^'

Again Sega more wisely designed their consoles back then, with the Master System mostly running its games in 256x192 pixels (4:3 perfect) and the Mega Drive mostly running its games in 320x224 or 320x240 pixels (4:3 perfect or close).

Are there Genesis games that exhibit the same problem?

Sadly yes. There are like 10-15% of the Mega Drive library which runs in 256x224 pixels and most of these games with wrong aspect ratio once in 4:3.

As I said, for some of these games it's forgivable cuz they are demanding games, things like F1 or Kawasaki Superbike Challenge, but it's sad for games such as Monster World III and IV or the Shining Force games.

[Yohko16]

Are any designed with 4:3 in mind?

The Super Monaco GP games at least

This could be interesting to establish a list with all the Mega Drive and Mega-CD games which run in 256x224 pixels but which are designed with 4:3 in mind.

The Sonic CD special stages (which run at 256×224) actually account for the aspect ratio difference

Didn't know about that, I gonna check it.

Which is also what irks me when people use the Sonic sprites as-is in hacks in parts running at 320×224 -_-

Haha, ye, dat fail!

[Gryson]

I checked Captain America, Mega Bomberman, and Shining Force, and they all seem stretched at 4:3. Don't have time to check more now but I'm curious if we'll find any others aside from Sik's example.

[Yohko16]

@Gryson: I've posted meantime and brought the Super Monaco GP games as examples of Mega Drive games which run in 256x224 pixels but which are designed with 4:3 in mind. The title screen, menus, etc. are in 320x224 pixels but once in game it swaps to 256x224 pixels but with adjustements made to match the arcade graphics once in 4:3.

Ye, let's find out if there are more games like this, either on Mega Drive or Mega-CD!

I know that on SNES side, there are at least a few games which have adjusted graphics such as Earthworm Jim 2 but as consequence the graphic assets don't look as nice as Mega Drive counterpart.

And on PC Engine there's Black Hole Assault which runs in lower resolution than the Mega-CD version but with adjusted graphics so same as above, it has good aspect ratio but the graphic assets don't look as nice as the Mega-CD version.


edit: Virtua Racing on Mega Drive runs in low res mode but seems to have graphics made with 4:3 in mind.

[QuickSciFi]

I still don't quite understand the OG post. Without a point of reference, I don't see how a game that was designed only for the SNES can be discussed in such terms without another system port to compare it to.

If we are talking about multiplats that came out on both systems, then, yes, I care a great deal; because most of said multiplats look stretched like shit on the SNES compared to their Genesis counterparts.

Examples:
Earthworm Jim
The Lion King
Jungle Strike
Desert Strike
Urban Strike

And these are just off the top of my head. But the list goes on and on...

[Flygon]

As I said, for some of these games it's forgivable cuz they are demanding games, things like F1 or Kawasaki Superbike Challenge, but it's sad for games such as Monster World III and IV or the Shining Force games.

With Shining Force, I suspect it's purely a ROM and RAM saving measure.

The game, for the overworld maps, actually uses the smallest background nametables it can get away with. Effectively having a 256*256 virtual screen - how it gets away with managing this is really not worth getting into the effort of telling.
This frees up VRAM, presumably to fit more artwork into. Streaming art assets is difficult when they're all compressed in the ROM!

Similarly, the game's artwork actually accounts for the aspect squish. And, presumably, in-battle sequences were deliberately drawn for that to also save on ROM.

There's no technical reason for Shining Force to need to use the 256-wide mode.
But there's certainly a budgetary reason for it to do so.

These things start making sense when you realize how tiny the ROMs were, and other weird edge cases with the hardware design.

Don't get upset at the developers.

[Yohko16]

@QuickSciFi: even exclusive SNES games are affected by the resolution issue. 256x224 pixels is not only limited in size but also has flawed shape for something meant to be displayed in 4:3.

Check out what has been previously posted, with Yoshi's Island having wrong aspect ratio and same goes for the majority of the SNES library, multiplats but also exclusive games.

Another example is Zombies Ate My Neighbours. It wasn't necessary to wait until the Mega Drive version came out to see that the SNES original has wrong aspect ratio once in 4:3 (and funny enough, there are SNES fanboys who pretend that it's the SNES version which has good aspect ratio ).