Streets of Rage 4 (Official Thread)

[Team Andromeda]

It's interesting how many Sega personnel are still around from the old days working on games for Sega. They must have a good corporate culture considering. Nagoshi, Hiro, Ootsubo, Kodama...

Don't forget Masayoshi Kikuchi who's the best Producer in SEGA and well most of Japan. Sadly it seems that -Kodama-san is relegated to just old ports. Nice to see some of the old SEGA is there, but the likes of Ueda-san, Yu GOD Suzuki and the genius that is Mizuguchi-san are huge losses for me on a personal level

While they'll never get any credit Yoji Ishii and Rikiya Nakagawa were massive losses. Ishii-and was SEGA's best ever producer IMO SEGA Arcade division really lost out when Nakagawa-san left SEGA over Sammy.

All that said, the past 2 years has seen SEGA Japan get back to some good form and produce some wonderful games and also some lovely looking games too. Its seems that since Hajime Satomi son has taken charge of SEGA, things are on the up. Hopefully next-gen, they'll be no silly focus on Mobile gaming and doing games on the cheap. But more console AAA games.

[Virtua Hunter]

An example from a completely unrelated game, from two hardware generations later, doesn't prove that Ancient weren't thanking the developers of the original SoR as courtesy, especially when the context isn't even the same.

The examples you give are different in that they're people and organisations that are being thanked for help in specific areas. The credits explicitly say what areas of assistance they're being thanked for. That's not the case for SoR2, is it? In addition, from the fact the people thanked are all credited under their real names, it's self evident that crediting practices had changed by the time Shenmue was released.

"special thanks" still works the same from '90 to 2020.
The only things that changed during the years, is that nowadays credits are much more detailed and longer compared to 16 bit (and not only because dev teams are bigger of course, simply now there is the habit to include EVERYONE, especially marketing people, even dogs and wives or the man that bring the coffee, these especially in american and european games, no kidding), while back in the day only the core team usually got credited, many times even with just their nicknames.

As you can see in the very detailed Shenmue credits (that kind of detailed info was rare), the special thanks weren't just courtesy, there are people and other Sega teams thanked for specific roles, even external companies.

then we return to SOR2:

We don't even know who most of the people thanked in SoR2 are.
Do you have any evidence, such as accounts from developers regarding crediting practices of the early '90s or other solid proof, that an external developer making a sequel to an internally developed game would never have thanked the team behind the previous game, or that Sega and the original developers of SoR had much input other than to give the yes or no to certain things (such as getting rid of Adam)?

Instead we do know very well at least one person thanked in that "Special Thanks Team Streets of Rage" in SOR2 credits: "a certain" Noriyoshi Obha...a nice guy and one of key people of SOR2, that guess what, was not directly credited in SOR2.

Even if it was a case of a simple "yes and no" to certain things (and it isn't, Ancient didn't worked alone to SOR2), the moment you give some kind of input that affects the game, we already can't talk anymore about simple courtesy, that's the purpose of "Special Thanks" after all.

(from what I remember Adam was cutted simply for memory limitations, probably Obha himself confirmed this).

[Virtua Hunter]

In this thread: Virtua Hunter and Team Andromeda discover that they are long-lost soulmates.

Result: The amount of incomprehensible gibberish has now doubled on the forum.

only politicians and children resorts to mocking their opponents when they are losing an argument...

[Gryson]

You just don't give up, do you?

I provided first-hand evidence countering whatever half-baked idea you were advocating, and you rejected it for the reason that it didn't fit into your preconceived narrative.

About ten other people proceeded to inform you that you were misguided. You then went off on some random tangent that I don't think anybody has been following.

To return to your original point:

1) You first tried to argue that, in the past, Sega did not just hand out its properties to any random developer to work on. You were then informed that yes, in fact, they did: Sega always played fast and loose with its properties in the 16-bit era. They gave SOR2 to Ancient, who at the time were led by a 22-year-old designer (Ayano Koshiro) and had never developed a game aside from the GG title they were working on.

2) You then tried to argue that, well, OK, yes Sega gave its properties out pretty casually, but they provided lots of support and and guidance and handholding. You were then provided with a direct quote from one of Sega's most acclaimed (and honest) 2nd party developers stating the exact opposite: Sega did not provide support to 2nd party developers (aside from paying them, which Maegawa states is the best form of support).

Let's get to the real issue here: Based on your post history on this forum, it is clear that you have some weird restriction that a game is only authentic if it is developed by the original developers. That is, simply put, an absurd restriction.

[Team Andromeda]

The REAL Issue is that for many, they are fans of the Mega Drive/Genesis. Not SEGA its self

[PreZZ]

I have played the game multiple times now, and its a great game. About the art style, the devs took original sketch drawings from the 90’s and brought them as close as possible to that style, and its awesome imo. There’s a bunch of Debbie Downer’s here, play it (or don’t!) and stop whining...

[Sik]

only politicians and children resorts to mocking their opponents when they are losing an argument...

Says the person who's acting like an cranky old guy who can't stand the idea that "the kids" are having fun with something different than what they had.

[BonusKun]

only politicians and children resorts to mocking their opponents when they are losing an argument...

See I think you'd have a good point but when Gryson said this..

Approving the development of a game has nothing to do with supporting it.

Why are you so resistant to what I'm saying, yet have obviously not read the sources?

And it's obvious that he's right about how you're acting then yeah I don't blame him for getting annoyed because you won't step up to the plate. You're being really good at dodging the point he's making even when the evidence is right in front of you.

The REAL Issue is that for many, they are fans of the Mega Drive/Genesis. Not SEGA its self

I'm sorry............................................. What?

[Virtua Hunter]

You just don't give up, do you?

I provided first-hand evidence countering whatever half-baked idea you were advocating, and you rejected it for the reason that it didn't fit into your preconceived narrative.

About ten other people proceeded to inform you that you were misguided. You then went off on some random tangent that I don't think anybody has been following.

you just provided a quote and based all your argument on that, you can't reach the truth with just some partial statements.
and you still try to ignore facts that totally contradicts those statement...

To return to your original point:

1) You first tried to argue that, in the past, Sega did not just hand out its properties to any random developer to work on. You were then informed that yes, in fact, they did: Sega always played fast and loose with its properties in the 16-bit era. They gave SOR2 to Ancient, who at the time were led by a 22-year-old designer (Ayano Koshiro) and had never developed a game aside from the GG title they were working on.

Sega was known as one of the most "younger" companies, with its internal team made all of 20-25 years old people.
I already explained (even if you don't want to understand) that Yuzo Koshiro had already ties with Sega way before Ancient was established (in fact it was established just to work with Sega at Sonic 1, because Koshiro wasn't a Sega enployee).
Koshiro had to work to Revenge of Shinobi, SOR1 (where he also helped Ohba with planning) then Sonic 8bit, before Sega decided to give Ancient SOR2 (that was always produced and supervised by Sega and Ohba).

2) You then tried to argue that, well, OK, yes Sega gave its properties out pretty casually, but they provided lots of support and and guidance and handholding. You were then provided with a direct quote from one of Sega's most acclaimed (and honest) 2nd party developers stating the exact opposite: Sega did not provide support to 2nd party developers (aside from paying them, which Maegawa states is the best form of support).

Let's get to the real issue here: Based on your post history on this forum, it is clear that you have some weird restriction that a game is only authentic if it is developed by the original developers. That is, simply put, an absurd restriction.

Maegawa and Takahashi honest? Now you must be kidding.
Takahashi still has a grudge against Sega, to the point that after Sega, they completed changed the identity of Camelot and transformed it in a pathetic Mario sports division.
Maegawa basically destroyed Treasure in the latest years making it a catalogue company.

Those two have all the interest of getting all the merits for what they did in the glory days of their companies (a glory achieved only thanks to Sega), given the sad state of their current business...

But let's pretend they are honest, even then I countered ALL their claims:

lack of promotion false
lack of support false
lack of playtesting false

unless you want to ignore facts, I don't see how you can continue with your biased narrative.

for the final part yes
A game is only genuine SEGA when it's made by Sega and their original dev, we should have this on the homepage to don't stray from the right path.

[Gryson]

You are simply not able to counter anything I've said.

Sega was known as one of the most "younger" companies, with its internal team made all of 20-25 years old people.
I already explained (even if you don't want to understand) that Yuzo Koshiro had already ties with Sega way before Ancient was established (in fact it was established just to work with Sega at Sonic 1, because Koshiro wasn't a Sega enployee).
Koshiro had to work to Revenge of Shinobi, SOR1 (where he also helped Ohba with planning) then Sonic 8bit, before Sega decided to give Ancient SOR2 (that was always produced and supervised by Sega and Ohba).

How does any of this counter the point that Sega gave SOR2 to an unaccomplished, new development company? Yuzo Koshiro is a composer - the one role that may be most removed from the quality of gameplay.

Just look into the development of SOR2 to see how lucky we are to have gotten the product we did. Ancient had almost NO actual employees - they sub-contracted everything out, and a lot of the work had to be re-done because it came back poorly. Read Ayano Koshiro's account here.

Maegawa and Takahashi honest? Now you must be kidding.
Takahashi still has a grudge against Sega, to the point that after Sega, they completed changed the identity of Camelot and transformed it in a pathetic Mario sports division.
Maegawa basically destroyed Treasure in the latest years making it a catalogue company.

Those two have all the interest of getting all the merits for what they did in the glory days of their companies (a glory achieved only thanks to Sega), given the sad state of their current business...

You really show your ignorance here. Masato Maegawa (Treasure) and Hiroyuki Takahashi (Climax, Sonic Software) are perhaps two of the people who speak most highly of Sega from that era. I would even guess that you've never actually read anything they've said. I have, a lot. You are so off base here that I don't know what to say.

But I think it's clear to most people on this forum that you don't know - you're just trying to dismiss them so you can support your crazy narrative, which you put so succinctly here:

A game is only genuine SEGA when it's made by Sega and their original dev, we should have this on the homepage to don't stray from the right path.

Just absurd.

[IrishNinja]

boy howdy, i sure am enjoying this renaissance of fake-ass sega games made by a bunch of non-sega nobodies these days, while sega figures out yakuza and sonic

imagine playing monster boy, new toejam & earl, panzer dragoon remake, SOR4, sonic mania and the like and thinking "lol this isn't genuine"

[Sik]

I'm sorry............................................. What?

Eh, I see what he meant, there are a lot of fans who will refuse to acknowledge anything Sega does unless it's directly tied to their console days.

[BonusKun]

Eh, I see what he meant, there are a lot of fans who will refuse to acknowledge anything Sega does unless it's directly tied to their console days.

Which to me was just a stupid thing to say. For me the Sega Genesis etc was about the games I enjoyed playing on it. I never did the whole console war thing years ago and just played the games I liked.

[BonusKun]

boy howdy, i sure am enjoying this renaissance of fake-ass sega games made by a bunch of non-sega nobodies these days, while sega figures out yakuza and sonic

imagine playing monster boy, new toejam & earl, panzer dragoon remake, SOR4, sonic mania and the like and thinking "lol this isn't genuine"

You must spread some more rep around etc etc.

[Sik]

Which to me was just a stupid thing to say. For me the Sega Genesis etc was about the games I enjoyed playing on it. I never did the whole console war thing years ago and just played the games I liked.

Yeah, but I think the comment wasn't whether the idea is stupid or not (it is) but that there are a lot of people who do it anyway :​P