I don't get SEGA fans petty grudge frm 20+ years ago.

[NeoZeedeater]

It’s a side scrolling platformer that was unlike anything before it. The closest game to be in that genre would be Mountain King, but it didn’t smoothly scroll from area to area. I would have never owned an NES (had a C64) if SMB didn’t exist.

Don't forget Pac-Land. That was the closest thing to SMB before SMB.

Scrolling platformers existed before Super Mario (Jump Bug, Snokie, Dragon Buster, Atari 800 Aztec Challenge, Legend of Kage, parts of Jungle Hunt) but SMB introduced a sense of style unlike anything before. It was the little details like the physics of sliding underneath things and smashing the bricks that stood out, things we take for granted today.

Nintendo did quite a bit of experimentation with platform game design back then. Gumshoe on NES was controlled by the Zapper.

[gamevet]

It seems you don't. Since I was on about 'console' Online RPG. And to compare 7 Cites or Star Flight to a game like Shenmue is just taking it too far. About the closest one got to Shenmue style of game was The Nomad Soul.

Everquest was also on the PS2.

7 Cities of Gold and Starflight were open word adventures in a 2D plane. Shenmue just happened to do it in a 3D world and added QTE events, which existed with Dragon’s Lair and Space Ace.

[NeoZeedeater]

Shenmue's not very open-ended anyway. In the first game you have to choose how to kill time but for the most part it's a fairly linear graphic adventure with simulation and action elements (kind of like a larger scale Last Express). It didn't invent a genre but it was a massive leap forward for realistic detail in video games.

[bultje112]

yes it was revolutionary. it was a game so grand on scale such as budget that it was the new beginning of what an AAA game is. also it did so many new things. the scale of interaction still isn't matched by any game today.

[Team Andromeda]

It’s a side scrolling platformer that was unlike anything before it. The closest game to be in that genre would be Mountain King, but it didn’t smoothly scroll from area to area. I would have never owned an NES (had a C64) if SMB didn’t exist.

Manic Minner came out before Mario Bros and that perfected pixel perfect platforming on the humble ZX Spectrum.

[Leynos]

Shenmue's not very open-ended anyway. In the first game you have to choose how to kill time but for the most part, it's a fairly linear graphic adventure with simulation and action elements (kind of like a larger scale Last Express). It didn't invent a genre but it was a massive leap forward for realistic detail in video games.

Fully agree with this post. It also wasn't open world. Just detailed big sections of a world but is was very segmented. Now Shenmue II on the other hand.


TA there was a game similar to Shenmue before Shenmue. Mizzurna Falls on PS1.

[Team Andromeda]

Everquest was also on the PS2.

7 Cities of Gold and Starflight were open word adventures in a 2D plane. Shenmue just happened to do it in a 3D world and added QTE events, which existed with Dragon’s Lair and Space Ace.

After PSO you do know PSO came out in 2000?. And to compare Starflight to Shenmue really is taking it a little too far. Btw Elite beat Star Flight by years and was what one could call the worlds 1st open world/Sandbox game. Shenmue like Nomad was simply ground breaking, eveb down to its dynamic weather, which even games of today dont always feature

[gamevet]

Manic Minner came out before Mario Bros and that perfected pixel perfect platforming on the humble ZX Spectrum.

Are you seriously trying to compare that game to Super Mario Bros, or even Mario Bros? You’d have to be a serious fanboy to try comparing that 1983 game to Mario Bros.

[quote]

After PSO you do know PSO came out in 2000?. And to compare Starflight to Shenmue really is taking it a little too far. Btw Elite beat Star Flight by years and was what one could call the worlds 1st open world/Sandbox game. Shenmue like Nomad was simply ground breaking, eveb down to its dynamic weather, which even games of today dont always feature

Yeah. I was a day one PSO player and DC owner. PSO was a reaction to the success of SOE’s Everquest, which they knew would be on PS2. It was a rushed game.

[gamevet]

yes it was revolutionary. it was a game so grand on scale such as budget that it was the new beginning of what an AAA game is. also it did so many new things. the scale of interaction still isn't matched by any game today.

It was a great game that used elements from other games. It just didn’t do open world 1st, or QTE either.

[Team Andromeda]

Are you seriously trying to compare that game to Super Mario Bros, or even Mario Bros?.

I very much doubt you ever played Manic Minner on the Spectrum in 83. But before anyone saw Mario Bros, it perfected pixel perfect jumping and platforming. It was a land mark game, like many 8 bit and 16 bit micro computer games.

And as a day one PSO. Player you should know it came before Everquest and well before SONY even launched its PS2 online service. PSO was the world's 1st Global Online console RPG. I know Fuji had a Saturn Online RPG, but that wasn't Global and online was simply used for new content to be downloaded. PSO was a true 1st and its friends system and universal communication system utterly year's before their time.

[Team Andromeda]

yes it was revolutionary. it was a game so grand on scale such as budget that it was the new beginning of what an AAA game is. also it did so many new things. the scale of interaction still isn't matched by any game today.

Yep, it was one of the 1st 3D polygon games where NPC's had their own lifes and routines, irrespective of players input or actions. It had a dynamic weather system and where the Snow or rain gradually built up, even today little games feature that.

I found the game to be a little dull to play, and a little overrated as a gamr that was fun to play. But it was a staggering achievement for a 1999 game and helped to shape what open world gamed would go on to become. Really incredible given the limits of DC memory constraints

[MrMatthews]

Are you seriously trying to compare that game to Super Mario Bros, or even Mario Bros? You’d have to be a serious fanboy to try comparing that 1983 game to Mario Bros.

I’m hardly a SMB fanboy, and I think it no longer deserves a place near the top of every “TOP VIDEO GAMEZ EVAR” list, but seriously? Everyone here trying to suggest that another similar game was more ground-breaking and more of a landmark title is super super deluded. History has proven that Super Mario Bros had more of an impact than any other game of its type from that era.

It’s all too easy for the Hate Boys circle jerk crew to dismiss SMB because it is by Nintendo. “Of course it sold millions,” they’ll say. “Those drooling fan boys will buy ANYTHING Nintendo shits out!” But Nintendo was NOBODY at that time. I doubt even a fraction of the people playing SMB during its meteoric rise to popularity even made the connection that this was the ‘Donkey Kong’ company.

Super Mario Bros literally changed the video game landscape purely on the strength of the game alone, not by the brand-recognition of the company behind it. Yeah, Pac-Land or this ‘Manic Minner’ came first... but how many systems did it sell? How many lists did it top in the computer magazines in 1986? Or 1987? Or 1997?

In this one case, there’s a pretty clear and indisputable winner.

(Neo Zeedeater, I borrowed your game but that wasn’t directed at you)

[gamevet]

I very much doubt you ever played Manic Minner on the Spectrum in 83. But before anyone saw Mario Bros, it perfected pixel perfect jumping and platforming. It was a land mark game, like many 8 bit and 16 bit micro computer games.

It's Manic Miner! WTF is wrong with your spelling?!

Manic Miner ain't shit to me. I've played the arcade platforming masterpieces Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr. and Mario Bros. before I ever played that mediocre platformer on the C64. It's not even as good as something like Miner 2049'er (which it was inspired by) or the Jump-man games. Why are you even bringing it up? It's not a side scrolling platformer like SMB.

And as a day one PSO. Player you should know it came before Everquest and well before SONY even launched its PS2 online service. PSO was the world's 1st Global Online console RPG. I know Fuji had a Saturn Online RPG, but that wasn't Global and online was simply used for new content to be downloaded. PSO was a true 1st and its friends system and universal communication system utterly year's before their time.

Do you see that part I've put in bold? This is how it's supposed to be written.

And as a day one PSO player, you should know it came out before Everquest.

Now, back onto that subject. Console, yes, but Ever Quest came out over a year and a half before PSO was released on console. I honestly thought it was fun for about 100 hours and got totally bored with it. It's pretty much like playing 4 large levels of Gauntlet with 3 other players. Playing it over....and over....and over... got boring really fast.

I’m hardly a SMB fanboy, and I think it no longer deserves a place near the top of every “TOP VIDEO GAMEZ EVAR” list, but seriously? Everyone here trying to suggest that another similar game was more ground-breaking and more of a landmark title is super super deluded. History has proven that Super Mario Bros had more of an impact than any other game of its type from that era.

It’s all too easy for the Hate Boys circle jerk crew to dismiss SMB because it is by Nintendo. “Of course it sold millions,” they’ll say. “Those drooling fan boys will buy ANYTHING Nintendo shits out!” But Nintendo was NOBODY at that time. I doubt even a fraction of the people playing SMB during its meteoric rise to popularity even made the connection that this was the ‘Donkey Kong’ company.

Super Mario Bros literally changed the video game landscape purely on the strength of the game alone, not by the brand-recognition of the company behind it. Yeah, Pac-Land or this ‘Manic Minner’ came first... but how many systems did it sell? How many lists did it top in the computer magazines in 1986? Or 1987? Or 1997?

In this one case, there’s a pretty clear and indisputable winner.

(Neo Zeedeater, I borrowed your game but that wasn’t directed at you)

My 1st time seeing SMB was in a game room at a Pistol Pete's Pizza in Phoenix in the fall of 1986. I hadn't even seen the game on the NES at retail, because they were showing Duck Hunt and Gyromite in an expensive bundle at the local retailers. My 1st experiences with the 4 Mario titles were at the arcade, and not on a console. Nintendo won me over in the arcades, before I ever played their NES.

[Black_Tiger]

Commercial success as a measure of merit makes sense if you're an executive of a game publisher. Keeping score of sales to determine a game's worth as a gamer is as lame as judging a game by its collectible value. Most films are garbage today because this mentality.

Pac Land didn't sell consoles because it was an arcade game. It doesn't matter how many 5 year olds grew up with SMB as a pack-in with the NES their parents bought them. It doesn't change the fact that Pac Land was a big deal in Japan (where most console and arcade games were made that generation), during the development of SMB.

Regardless of how much influence it must have had on SMB, it still did most of the innovations SMB gets credit for, long before it was released. The rest of the noteworthy features that SMB carried over from Mario Bros were taken from the original Pac Man. Pac Land also had other noteworthy features, plus actual artwork and parallax.

SMB is literally the Pac Land-ization of Mario Bros.

[gamevet]

Commercial success as a measure of merit makes sense if you're an executive of a game publisher. Keeping score of sales to determine a game's worth as a gamer is as lame as judging a game by its collectible value. Most films are garbage today because this mentality.

Pac Land didn't sell consoles because it was an arcade game. It doesn't matter how many 5 year olds grew up with SMB as a pack-in with the NES their parents bought them. It doesn't change the fact that Pac Land was a big deal in Japan (where most console and arcade games were made that generation), during the development of SMB.

Regardless of how much influence it must have had on SMB, it still did most of the innovations SMB gets credit for, long before it was released. The rest of the noteworthy features that SMB carried over from Mario Bros were taken from the original Pac Man. Pac Land also had other noteworthy features, plus actual artwork and parallax.

SMB is literally the Pac Land-ization of Mario Bros.

It's not just about commercial success. It's about game X having an influence all across the industry. There was no game like PAC-MAN, and once it arrived, everyone from Bally to Atari was trying to make a game like it, but not too obvious. I was more impressed with Jungle Hunt, than I was with PAC-LAND. I honestly don't see how PAC-LAND had any influence on SMB, other than having scrolling backgrounds. SMB is essentially Mario Bros. with a scrolling world.