I don't get SEGA fans petty grudge frm 20+ years ago.

[Leynos]

Gosh, I'm not sure how to say this if you don't already understand it... but we are talking about games that had the biggest impact. And how much a game sold combined with how well that game was received is a significant part of the equation of how much of an influence it ultimately ends up having on the video game industry. Specifically talking about Super Mario Bros, this is a game that literally introduced an entire generation of kids to video games in general. This doesn't mean it's a better game than some other hidden gem, but it does make it a more influential title. If you can't see the distinction (and I'm sure you don't) then I can't help you.

As usual, you've derailed a thread with goofy stuff like a Spectrum game that had nothing to do with the subject.

Can't rep.

[gamevet]

Others started it and you also joined in. What's PC RPG's or a PS2 RPG got to do with a SEGA and Nintendo thread?.

You bust in and don't take the time to read what people say, or even take the time to google; Most people would know that PSO was a groundbreaking title. It truly was the worlds 1st Global Online console RPG it shipped before anyone could take their PS2 online in the states or Europe, it was a world 1st!. Shenmue was truly groundbreaking, so was VF, so was Virtual Racing 4 viewpoints. To me, SEGA is and were a better corp than Nintendo Looked to push the genre's forward more, far more innovative and made the better games and looked to use the most cutting-edge hardware.

I pointed out that Everquest was the game that created the online MMORG. PSO being the 1st on the console does not change that fact. The only thing ground breaking about PSO was that it was a console 1st, nothing more.

You then went on about an average platformer that came out way after Donkey Kong, the game that was what all other platformers after it had to outdo, and even Sega’s attempt (Congo Bongo) couldn’t match it.

[Leynos]

Eh? There were MMORPGs on PC before Everquest. There is that one from 1995 that is 3D but now sits abandoned but can still download for free for some reason. There is a text-based one from the 1970s that is still active. Forget the name. Granted I have not read the full exchange so I maybe missing some context but maybe you mean Everquest is the first to use a specific formula of an MMO? Ones that what we call MMO's now took its inspiration from Everquest? NetHack from the 80s is still active. Gemstone IV is an MMO from the 80s still active. Ultima Online from 1997 and still active. Not trying to agree with Ta or shit on your posts but just saying older MMO's than Everquest but as I mentioned as someone, not that familiar with their different formulas, maybe Everquest shaped the more modern MMO. Forgive me.

[gamevet]

Eh? There were MMORPGs on PC before Everquest. There is that one from 1995 that is 3D but now sits abandoned but can still download for free for some reason. There is a text-based one from the 1970s that is still active. Forget the name. Granted I have not read the full exchange so I maybe missing some context but maybe you mean Everquest is the first to use a specific formula of an MMO? Ones that what we call MMO's now took its inspiration from Everquest? NetHack from the 80s is still active. Gemstone IV is an MMO from the 80s still active. Ultima Online from 1997 and still active. Not trying to agree with Ta or shit on your posts but just saying older MMO's than Everquest but as I mentioned as someone, not that familiar with their different formulas, maybe Everquest shaped the more modern MMO. Forgive me.

You’re right. There was Ultima Online and other Online games, but it was the success of Diablo and Ever Crack that made people start noticing what online gaming could become.

[Leynos]

I can agree with that.

[gamevet]

I can agree with that.

Sega’s Heat Net is said to have had a huge influence on the design of Microsoft’s Xbox LIVE.

[Leynos]

Dreamcast, in general, was the Blueprint for Xbox. The controller. The two slots for memory cards. Both used Direct X API. Xbox focus tests used Dreamcasts. Xbox nearly had VMUs. Xbox was nearly BC with DC games. Then we had all those DC and SEGA exclusives on Xbox. I think SEGA and MS saw Xbox as the continuation of Dreamcast. Why for me after Dreamcast it's my fave system of that gen. SEGANet I believe was the foundation for XBL. XBL was far better of course. I also personally see Xbox 360 as Dreamcast 2. I don't see Xbox One with any of that DNA tho personally.

[sull56ivan2010]

European game developers have produced first class software for decades. Show some respect.

???? Where did I say I hate European game developers? You're looking at my post out of context.

[gio]

Why?

Because nostalgia.

[Team Andromeda]

Eh? There were MMORPGs on PC before Everquest. There is that one from 1995 that is 3D but now sits abandoned but can still download for free for some reason. There is a text-based one from the 1970s that is still active. Forget the name. Granted I have not read the full exchange so I maybe missing some context but maybe you mean Everquest is the first to use a specific formula of an MMO? Ones that what we call MMO's now took its inspiration from Everquest? NetHack from the 80s is still active. Gemstone IV is an MMO from the 80s still active. Ultima Online from 1997 and still active. Not trying to agree with Ta or shit on your posts but just saying older MMO's than Everquest but as I mentioned as someone, not that familiar with their different formulas, maybe Everquest shaped the more modern MMO. Forgive me.

Right please explain to me how that is on Topic, much less where I said that PSO was the world's first Online RPG. I just said PSO was the world's 1st Global Console online RPG

[Leynos]

Right please explain to me how that is on Topic, much less where I said that PSO was the world's first Online RPG. I just said PSO was the world's 1st Global Console online RPG

I wasn't talking to you, genius.

[Team Andromeda]

I pointed out that Everquest was the game that created the online MMORG. PSO being the 1st on the console does not change that fact. The only thing ground breaking about PSO was that it was a console 1st, nothing more.

You then went on about an average platformer that came out way after Donkey Kong, the game that was what all other platformers after it had to outdo, and even Sega’s attempt (Congo Bongo) couldn’t match it.

This was meant to be about SEGA and Nintendo. I just said PSO was a 1st for the consoles. But in your rush to prove me wrong, you list PC games and a PS 2 game that shipped some 3 years after PSO. I was clearly on about consoles and also SEGA too at the time. I never made out that PSO was a 1st on any format or the best, just that it was a real 1st for the consoles and a clear example of SEGA trying to push the boundaries of console gaming, thats all. I'm not going to to argue or say anymore about it for fear of getting banned

I would agree with you that Nintendo not only beat SEGA to platform games, but imo Nintendo made far better ones than SEGA did too. Mario 3 and IV were just utterly amazing and still are to this day, so is Mario 64 and Galaxy too

[Folco]

what is in any way unique about nintendo games?

Since late '80s/early '90s Nintendo actively looked out for unique gameplay style that could be popular and from which
they could create a franchises that could be successful generation after generation.
They correctly understood that having a genre king is much better (more profitable) that simply releasing clones in popular genres in a specific time period because once a genre run out of popularity all it remains are the very most popular franchise(s).
With the current high budget in the console space there are very little alternative to the kind of games Nintendo iterate each generation.
Want to play a Mario Kart-like game? You probably would end up buying the newest Mario Kart.
Want to play a Smash Bros-like game? You probably would end up buying the newest Smash Bros.
Want to play a 3D Platform game? You probably would end up buying the newest Mario 3D.
And so on (Mario Tennis, Animal Crossing, Tomodachi, Mario Party).
I'm not saying that there aren't any alternative (for example Sonic Kart games or PlayStation All Stars or Ratchet & Clank), what I'm saying is that since Nintendo owns the most popular franchises that defined a (sub)genre (often in (sub)genres not popular anymore) they can displace any competitor.
Super Mario Odyssey will soon become the best selling 3D platform game of all time yet the genre isn't healthy at all, there are very little new 3D platform games released (genre died out around PS2/GC/XB gen).

[Folco]

The games yay... more Mario more Zelda more treating gamers like they're not adults, not grown up since the NES. You can be innovative and do very well as SONY showed. Not only have SONY made very innovative games (and Dreams look to keep that up) they also have tried to be innovative with Hardware be that the Eye Toy or PSVR- which is the greatest revolution in console gaming this gen. SONY can be informative with Hardware and also cater for the child gamer and the gamer who's grown up and still make a profit from it too. Nintendo is just a dinosaur in the digital age and get far too much credit imo

Nintendo have always done games for everyone (at least that's their goal).
They still release critically acclaimed and popular games (like Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey last year).
Nintendo is a dinosaur in the videogame business because they were there almost from the beginning: they were selling pong clones and releasing classics during the golden age of arcades and they are still producing very popular games with old characters created back in the '80s which is quite unusual.

It's not just about commercial success. It's about game X having an influence all across the industry. There was no game like PAC-MAN, and once it arrived, everyone from Bally to Atari was trying to make a game like it, but not too obvious. I was more impressed with Jungle Hunt, than I was with PAC-LAND. I honestly don't see how PAC-LAND had any influence on SMB, other than having scrolling backgrounds. SMB is essentially Mario Bros. with a scrolling world.

That's because the importance of the whole argument about who did something first is moot.
The mass will remember (or at least give precedence) who popularized a product, not who invented something first.
The craze of 2D platform games that began in the late '80s wasn't due to Pac-land instead it was a reaction to SMB huge success.

[NeoZeedeater]

Nintendo have always done games for everyone (at least that's their goal).
They still release critically acclaimed and popular games (like Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey last year).
Nintendo is a dinosaur in the videogame business because they were there almost from the beginning: they were selling pong clones and releasing classics during the golden age of arcades and they are still producing very popular games with old characters created back in the '80s which is quite unusual.


That's because the importance of the whole argument about who did something first is moot.
The mass will remember (or at least give precedence) who popularized a product, not who invented something first.
The craze of 2D platform games that began in the late '80s wasn't due to Pac-land instead it was a reaction to SMB huge success.

It may be a moot point if all you want is the masses' viewpoint but if you're interested in the evolution of genres, less popular games often do have a big influence. Pac-Land very likely inspired aspects of SMB and the platform genre in general. Herzog Zwei was a niche game but it influenced Westwood which helped popularize the RTS genre. Head On was likely an inspiration for Pac-Man (there's good mention in Melf's Sega arcade book; everyone should buy that).

I think 2d scrolling platformers still would have been common by the late '80s with or without SMB. Ghosts 'n Goblins was a success and scrolling platform games were the logical evolution of single-screen platform games anyway.