I don't get SEGA fans petty grudge frm 20+ years ago.

**Team Andromeda** · 09-19-2018, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

It may be a moot point if all you want is the masses' viewpoint but if you're interested in the evolution of genres, less popular games often do have a big influence. Pac-Land very likely inspired aspects of SMB and the platform genre in general. Herzog Zwei was a niche game but it influenced Westwood which helped popularize the RTS genre. Head On was likely an inspiration for Pac-Man (there's good mention in Melf's Sega arcade book; everyone should buy that).

I think 2d scrolling platformers still would have been common by the late '80s with or without SMB. Ghosts 'n Goblins was a success and scrolling platform games were the logical evolution of single-screen platform games anyway.

Top post

**BubsyFan1** · 09-19-2018, 07:10 PM

Oh man. As someone who hasn't been involved in any of the discussion here, this has been a fun thread.

Anyway, I found this pretty interesting:

Originally Posted by QuickSciFi

And as far as the 90s go, there is not one time I remember a Sega owner saying stupid shit like that. Not even me. What I do remember is being shunned multiple times for not having the money to buy the "better" games and system Nintendo had to offer. All while cherishing gaming overall, including an appeal for Nintendo's, and later Sony's, systems and games. The same went for every exclusive Genesis owner I knew back then. Which boiled down to affordability more than anything else.

Did anyone else experience this? Was this commonplace? I'm curious because I grew up in a town of around 30,000 people, and over half of those people were 45 or older. After I played Sonic for the first time, I genuinely wanted a Genesis because I preferred it over the NES, which was the only other console I had played at that time. I only knew one person who ended up getting a SNES, and most people I knew just never got a 16-bit system. We all just enjoyed what the other people had as well as what we had. The only other console I had seen before I moved away from that town was a Saturn, which I had wanted ever since I first saw it... but my dad didn't want me to get one because he said it was a bad investment. -sigh-

**gamevet** · 09-19-2018, 10:21 PM

@Bubsyfan1

I'm pretty sure that your town of 30,000 had several 100, if not 1,000, that owned an NES or Genesis. I grew up in a town of @3,500 during the 70's and 80's, and I knew dozens of kids with an Atari VCS, C-64 or Apple II over the years. There would be at least one kid on my block that would have a VCS, besides me. I've no doubt that it was the same for that town with the NES and Genesis in the late 80's and early 90's.

Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

It may be a moot point if all you want is the masses' viewpoint but if you're interested in the evolution of genres, less popular games often do have a big influence. Pac-Land very likely inspired aspects of SMB and the platform genre in general. Herzog Zwei was a niche game but it influenced Westwood which helped popularize the RTS genre. Head On was likely an inspiration for Pac-Man (there's good mention in Melf's Sega arcade book; everyone should buy that).

I think 2d scrolling platformers still would have been common by the late '80s with or without SMB. Ghosts 'n Goblins was a success and scrolling platform games were the logical evolution of single-screen platform games anyway.

I believe that Pitfall may have been one of those games that inspired the side-scrolling platformer. The VCS hardware did have games like Vanguard with side scrolling, but I don't believe that the hardware could have handled Pitfall as a side scrolling platformer. It was just much easier for them to switch to the next screen once you reached the edge, and that's what games like Smurf also did.

Head On reminds me of Atari's much older Slot Racers on the VCS. Replace the cars shooting missiles with collecting dots and the games become very similar. I do believe that Iwatani designed the game around eating and that the pellets in Head On probably had no influence on the game that he started developing, on the same month as the release of Gremlin's game. Now, Rally-X, I can see Head On having some influence on that.

**NeoZeedeater** · 09-20-2018, 12:43 AM

In Melf's book, it mentions the head of Namco having a meeting at Gremlin and he was playing a lot of Head On there prior to its release.

**gamevet** · 09-20-2018, 01:58 AM

Ah, interesting. I need to pick up both of Melf’s books.

**bultje112** · 09-20-2018, 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by BubsyFan1

Oh man. As someone who hasn't been involved in any of the discussion here, this has been a fun thread.

Anyway, I found this pretty interesting:

Did anyone else experience this? Was this commonplace? I'm curious because I grew up in a town of around 30,000 people, and over half of those people were 45 or older. After I played Sonic for the first time, I genuinely wanted a Genesis because I preferred it over the NES, which was the only other console I had played at that time. I only knew one person who ended up getting a SNES, and most people I knew just never got a 16-bit system. We all just enjoyed what the other people had as well as what we had. The only other console I had seen before I moved away from that town was a Saturn, which I had wanted ever since I first saw it... but my dad didn't want me to get one because he said it was a bad investment. -sigh-

here where I lived in the netherlands I knew 3 people with a nes and 1 with a snes. the rest had masters systems and/or megadrives. but nobody ever said oh snes sucks or megadrive sucks or whatever. there were also several people with amiga's (me included) and even commodore 64's. we were also young kids so I doubt they care or know about console wars.

**Folco** · 09-20-2018, 08:47 AM

About the subject of this thread, I disagree with OP.
I take issue when I interact with adults who act like children.
It's not something specific to Sega fans or videgames forums either.
So I'm not sure why one should call out Sega fans in general.

Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

It may be a moot point if all you want is the masses' viewpoint but if you're interested in the evolution of genres, less popular games often do have a big influence. Pac-Land very likely inspired aspects of SMB and the platform genre in general. Herzog Zwei was a niche game but it influenced Westwood which helped popularize the RTS genre. Head On was likely an inspiration for Pac-Man (there's good mention in Melf's Sega arcade book; everyone should buy that).

I think 2d scrolling platformers still would have been common by the late '80s with or without SMB. Ghosts 'n Goblins was a success and scrolling platform games were the logical evolution of single-screen platform games anyway.

It's a moot point the importance of who created something (or part of it) compared to who popularized something first.
Of course it's always interesting to trace back the source of influence or who was the first to do something, what I'm saying is that the first who popularized something have a bigger impact.
Both Karl Benz and Henry Ford are notable historical figure for the automotive industry but I'd wager Ford had overall a bigger influence over that industry.
Around here we all know that the first commercial console with a touchscreen was the Game.com yet this information is just a footnote in history because Game.com was a very niche console no one care for.
DS on the other hand is the fastest selling console in history.

Street Fighter II wasn't the first one vs one fighting game in the arcade (and it's interesting to search for the roots of the genre) yet it was the game who kickstarted the silver age of arcades and a big wave of copycats.

**Team Andromeda** · 09-20-2018, 09:57 AM

You can sum up the difference between the two with Nintendo current Online offering. Like Nintendo, its Online service is a complete joke and totally out of date and Nintendo has to yet to make an MMO too. To be this good takes AGES, to be this good takes SEGA !!!

**gamevet** · 09-20-2018, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Folco

Street Fighter II wasn't the first one vs one fighting game in the arcade (and it's interesting to search for the roots of the genre) yet it was the game who kickstarted the silver age of arcades and a big wave of copycats.

Yeah, as a C64 owner, we were playing Way of the Exploding Fist in the 80’s. Street Fighter II made the genre far more popular because of it’s hidden moves, combo system and character stories. WOTEF just had player 1 vs player 2 with a few punches and kicks you could perform.

**BonusKun** · 09-20-2018, 04:55 PM