I don't get SEGA fans petty grudge frm 20+ years ago.

[Leynos]

Had the Sony deal gone through and was the success PS1 we did get became. We would be talking about what would essentially be the next SEGA consoles possible specs with a forum of more than 10 people posting a day and it would not be about what if they did X or y differently. Nor would it be SNES vs Genesis topic yet again(I hope). You seem to think I'm saying Saturn and DC are bad systems when they are my faves of all time and everyone who knows me knows my obsession with how much I love the DC. It has nothing to do with my personal love for either system but what it did to them as a business. They were shitheads because they could not manage anything well. We are talking long-term big picture for SEGA as a company back then. Staying in hardware didn't kill them but the hardware they did put out and what they didn't do hurt them as much if not more than what they did do. Like it or not but there is only 1 console maker from the 1980s who manged their money well enough to still be making hardware. I just wish SEGA manged their hardware and finances well enough that they could possibly still be making hardware.

[Gryson]

Had the Sony deal gone through and was the success PS1 we did get became. We would be talking about what would essentially be the next SEGA consoles possible specs with a forum of more than 10 people posting a day and it would not be about what if they did X or y differently. Nor would it be SNES vs Genesis topic yet again(I hope). You seem to think I'm saying Saturn and DC are bad systems when they are my faves of all time and everyone who knows me knows my obsession with how much I love the DC. It has nothing to do with my personal love for either system but what it did to them as a business. They were shitheads because they could not manage anything well. We are talking long-term big picture for SEGA as a company back then. Staying in hardware didn't kill them but the hardware they did put out and what they didn't do hurt them as much if not more than what they did do. Like it or not but there is only 1 console maker from the 1980s who manged their money well enough to still be making hardware. I just wish SEGA manged their hardware and finances well enough that they could possibly still be making hardware.

Why do you feel the need to call the people who made Sega "shitheads"? It's just plain disrespectful and makes you come off as ignorant (not much help needed there, honestly).

It's clear that you don't really know what you're talking about. Before you start spewing shit, try to become a bit more informed.

[Mega Drive Bowlsey]

It all relates back to the Sony-Sega tie-up. Kalinske (and others) wanted Sega to become a privileged 3rd party to Sony, just as Namco eventually would, because hardware was too expensive to develop.

Although it's never been discussed here before, the Japanese Sega executives did have a series of meetings with Sony about this, but after long consideration the deal did not go through. Basically, Nakayama would not do it because he wanted to remain in the hardware game.

Even before that, though, there was internal pressure to drop out of the home hardware market:



https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/04...f-sega?page=10

All of the evidence made it clear that Sega should have gone 3rd party: other established arcade giants like Konami, Capcom, and Namco were enjoying huge success, and the costs of hardware development and manufacture were very clearly skyrocketing. Sega did not have enough money in the bank to continue.

Nevertheless, Nakayama made the decision to stay in the hardware business. Ultimately, that was clearly a "bad decision," yet without it then all of the Sega nerds in the world would never have gotten their Saturns and Dreamcasts.

So it's just silly when people call Nakayama a shithead who ruined Sega. We wouldn't be here posting about this stuff if not for his "bad decisions."

Ah ok, thanks for the info. So after all it was really only thanks to Hayao Nakayama that we got the Saturn and Dreamcast. That just makes me love the guy even more than I did. I knew that Sega were making a big loss on hardware sales, but I didn't know that there was internal pressure on Nakayama to make Sega a software only company as far back as the early 90's. It would seem that even back then, when Sega were going from strength to strength in the US and Europe, they were still hemorrhaging money due to the cost of hardware manufacturing. The only reason Nintendo were safe financially is presumably due to the huge goldmine that the NES created for them, and the fact that they always played it safe and never over-reached themselves. However, it was the fact that Sega didn't play it safe and did over-reach themselves that made them different and loved by so many of us the world over.

[Leynos]

redacted.

[Gryson]

Here is the message SegataS just sent me:

Be an ass to me ans I will forever be an ass to you. Insult me like that again and this will be a personal vendetta.

People like this are seriously what makes this forum suck sometimes.

Making endless garbage threads, spewing shit, contributing nothing.

But I do appreciate that there are many awesome people on here too

[Leynos]

Ah ok, thanks for the info. So after all it was really only thanks to Hayao Nakayama that we got the Saturn and Dreamcast. That just makes me love the guy even more than I did. I knew that Sega were making a big loss on hardware sales, but I didn't know that there was internal pressure on Nakayama to make Sega a software only company as far back as the early 90's. It would seem that even back then, when Sega were going from strength to strength in the US and Europe, they were still hemorrhaging money due to the cost of hardware manufacturing. The only reason Nintendo were safe financially is presumably due to the huge goldmine that the NES created for them, and the fact that they always played it safe and never over-reached themselves. However, it was the fact that Sega didn't play it safe and did over-reach themselves that made them different and loved by so many of us the world over.

Game Boy made them a lot of money. Honestly, their handhelds are likely a big part of why they stayed head above water in their worst times. ALthought Gamecube made a profit even tho it didn't sell that much. Still GBA likely really carried them that gen. Wii/DS made them mega-rich and Wii U was the first system they lost money on I think. 3DS carried them then and now they won't let 3DS die despite the fact Switch is selling a bunch. Nintendo is possibly scared are for once the pillar talk is real unlike when DS was the 3rd pillar. Having Pokemon doesn't hurt either.

So here is a question. Let's say SEGA made a Game Gear 2. They fix every major hardware issue people had with 1 including a more competitive price. SEGA somehow secures the rights to Digimon games. Now I know it would not be as popular as Pokemon and in 2018 Digimon isn't even 1/10 of Pokemon but in the 90s it had some success. If SEGA was behind it and Game Gear 2 exclusive. How competitive do you see it being with Game Boy? I know no one could unseat Nintendo but Sony was able to get the PSP to sell 80million and that in itself was a huge victory. Not saying GG2 would be 80 million but can you see it at 20-30? Or can you think of any scenario where a SEGA handheld was able to compete? TBH I always hated Nintendo's hardware in handhelds until the Switch. SEGA and Sony have made my fave handhelds.

[Leynos]

Segata will be taking a chill pill.

Post redacted and edited under my own will.

[Gryson]

Do you understand what "blocked" means? Please, you don't deserve to read my posts. Shoo.

[Moirai]

I like toitles

[Gryson]

[Leynos]

I like toitles

I don't know what Grysons last post is. Not going to read it but this is what is going to happen. I'm retracting my last couple of angry posts. I will admit they went too far. So I am going to make a post in the random thoughts topic. It will be about changing somethings about my posting habbits and reactionay nature.

I like Turtles as well. Esp the Ninja variety.

[Leynos]

I'm only for one more post, going to drift off topic in case anyone doesn't see this in random thoughts. I'm truly sorry.

My apologies to most people here. Except maybe the 3 people on ignoring. It's easy to get caught up in a convo esp when we are a passionate bunch. Only within the last year did my resistance fade off on forums to peoples bullshit attacks. I know Bonus will see this at some point soon. Esp the mess that another topic is. Anyway. I should stop being so frustrated and defensive. If I see bullshit, promise to let more of it go. My real nature is to be more of a joking person but when passionate about something that evaporates and turns more emotional. It's stupid and will admit a maturity thing. I don't ask for any sympathy, none needed and be stupid to have any. I apologize for the Asp. It's popular online for people to claim it and then flip everyone the bird and may come across that way here. Why I want to hold myself back. I don't know how to socialize very well which is plainly obvious I'm sure. I just love SEGA and the industry too much. So this is a promise. Taking a deep breath. Ignore what I perceive as insults as much as I can. I will also refrain from lashing out. Not doing anyone any favors. Too few of us SEGA fans of old left to be bickering too much.


So sand is out of the vajajay. Deep breaths are taken. Adjust the shirt. Please understand. I will also try to please understand. My sincerest apologies. This forum doesn't need more bickering. It will have it but from now on do my best to not contribute to it.

If anyone wishes to remain talking about SEGA and such feel free. Drama zone is over. Once again. My apologies to everyone. Gryson was not one of the 3 on ignore. I was going to but decided not to.

[Team Andromeda]

Even what good games sega produced, they sucked at marketing.

They were really good in the 16 bit age. SEGA Europe Pirate TV ads were totally brilliant and really hit the cool nerve, they were way ahead on Nintendo and before SONY looked to make gaming cool with the older gamer (thought it was the male older gamer) . SEGA Europe also spent big on TV sports advertising with SEGA sponsoring the Premiership.
A F1 Team and even the British GP. They were well ahead of the curve, sadly the likes of SEGA Europe Simon Morris jumped ship and went to SONY (like a lot of SEGA PR). The trouble was with games like NiGHTS they would be a hard sell, how do sell and describe a game like NiGHTS ?, with Sonic just 10 secs of seeing and hearing Green Hill Zone was enough for most people to want a Mega Drive.

It was far easier for SEGA to look and appear cooler and hype to Nintendo in the 16-bit wars, given Nintendo stance over violence or Mario compared to Sonic. SONY wasn't Nintendo and looked not to lock 3rd parties into horrible contracts, looked to make its system cool and didn't care about being a safe platform for kids. It was so much harder for SEGA to try and be hipper than SONY.

[Team Andromeda]

Nevertheless, Nakayama made the decision to stay in the hardware business. Ultimately, that was clearly a "bad decision," yet without it then all of the Sega nerds in the world would never have gotten their Saturns and Dreamcasts.

So it's just silly when people call Nakayama a shithead who ruined Sega. We wouldn't be here posting about this stuff if not for his "bad decisions."

Nakayama-san the man who made SEGA take the consumer side seriously and expanding the SOJ consumer sector when he split the consumer and Arcade teams into totally different lines and looked to give the consumer sector of SOJ its separate teams and proper development resources.

The man how gave us the Mega Drive had SEGA make Sonic and believed in SEGA more than most, the man who even gave Tom his job; and I do believe Tom even says that when he looked to put Sonic has the Mega Drive in-game pack. Nakayama-san was the one who stood up for Tom, said I employed you, so do it. While most of the SOJ shareholders couldn't see the sense in packing your number one game, with Hardware. Nakayama-san was the man who made SEGA Japan was it was, with a transformation in SEGA Arcade (staring with Hang-On and Eunduro Racer) and consumer output and SEGA was never the same when that man left.

Like the late great Isao Okawa said.

Nakayama-san, may have known games, but he did not know business

And to give total credit to Bernie Stolar, I think he summed it up perfectly really on the issues of the SEGA in the USA

I really think the Saturn failure was a combination of things. Bad timing, high price, launch software that didn't sell the hardware, no Sonic at launch, limited retail distribution and the 32X didn't help our position at retail, the consumer, or with the developer/publishing community. I don't think any one thing was the issue-it was a layering effect, that these things had on the business. Remember no launch has ever been perfect for anyone. You can hide losts of mistakes by overcompensating in different area's

[bultje112]

That's not fair and that's not what he's saying. Segata is saying that he would love Sega to still be around today as a hardware manufacturer, but in order for that to have come to pass they would have to have reigned themselves in back in the 90's and not made as many financial fuck ups. It's a fair point.

the reason sega is fantastic and unique is because they took those risks. look at nintendo. never take any risks and now their main ip's are on shitty hardware for the past 10 years. I'd much rather have sega go out the way they did than having a sega game being downgraded beyond believe to have it work on the switch.