Sega and Sony: New Insight into the Partnership That Never Came to Be

[Blades]

3DO and 32X used RISC too, not exclusive to the Jag.

But yes, Jag (and later 32X) was probably the earliest console that could somewhat handle the Doom engine, and the added color space was a bonus.

[Team Andromeda]

3DO and 32X used RISC too, not exclusive to the Jag.

But yes, Jag (and later 32X) was probably the earliest console that could somewhat handle the Doom engine, and the added color space was a bonus.

When the Jaguar and 3DO were announced there was no 32X (were are in early 93) and it became clear that the 3DO would simply price its self out of the 'Toy' market SEGA and Nintendo was in. The Jaguar tech spec was impressing a lot of people and at a guess, the planned price point of £200 had SEGA a little worried. To point into some sort of context the Mega Drive its self would cost £170 at that time in 1993; for not a lot more, would have a system that destroys the MD tech spec. Of course, in the end, the Jaguar would go on to cost £40 more than its planned £199 price point, much like how the 32X came in £20 more than its planned price point of £150

It also shouldn't be overlooked how well the CD32 did on its launch in Europe, if Only Commodore had a bit more money and better support on the world stage. But the CD32 was a rather nice CD based system with a nice price point too. I would imagine all these were factors in SEGA being worried rivals would eat into its 16-bit market share, more so with people at the time people were getting a little bored and the market being saturated with 16bit software.

For me the 32X was silly knee jerk reaction by SOJ. A call that never should have been made and a system that never should have been carried on by SOA. All focus and In-House software should have been on the Saturn along with doing great deals and bundled with Mega Drive Hardware.
Looking back too, instead of having part of the Sonic Team waste their time on Knuckles Chaotix. That team should have been working on an early Sonic game for Saturn to go along with a Saturn port of Sonic CD.

[axel]

For me the 32X was silly knee jerk reaction by SOJ. A call that never should have been made and a system that never should have been carried on by SOA. All focus and In-House software should have been on the Saturn along with doing great deals and bundled with Mega Drive Hardware.
Looking back too, instead of having part of the Sonic Team waste their time on Knuckles Chaotix. That team should have been working on an early Sonic game for Saturn to go along with a Saturn port of Sonic CD.

Bottom line is that you release one home console at a time, not two. If the Saturn was looking too expensive then they should have gone back and redesigned it, not come up with a band aid solution for the Genesis. Don't get me wrong I think the 32X is about the coolest add on ever but it made no financial sense, especially considering the timing.

[zyrobs]

They couldn't redesign the Saturn because they were out of time. The Megadrive was dead in Japan, Sony was launching the Playstation, and Nintendo was launching the N64 in a year (it turned out to be two years but they did not knew that).

But that's not saying that the 32x should have existed.

[axel]

They couldn't redesign the Saturn because they were out of time. The Megadrive was dead in Japan, Sony was launching the Playstation, and Nintendo was launching the N64 in a year (it turned out to be two years but they did not knew that).

But that's not saying that the 32x should have existed.

They were only "out of time" because they insisted on releasing everything in November 1994. It was a self-imposed deadline and I think they would have been fine waiting a bit longer. But, hindsight is 20/20.

[zyrobs]

The deadline wasn't self imposed. They simply had no console selling in numbers in Japan, and Sony was a serious threat that they had to try to counter.

[Team Andromeda]

Bottom line is that you release one home console at a time, not two. If the Saturn was looking too expensive then they should have gone back and redesigned it, not come up with a band aid solution for the Genesis. Don't get me wrong I think the 32X is about the coolest add on ever but it made no financial sense, especially considering the timing.

Any CD based system in 1994 was going to cost a lot of money. But to me the only people who buy Hardware on day 1, are the die hards and the people who will pay loads of money to get a system on day one. I wasn't a fan of the Jupiter project, but that made far more sense to me, than the 32X.

[Team Andromeda]

They were only "out of time" because they insisted on releasing everything in November 1994. It was a self-imposed deadline and I think they would have been fine waiting a bit longer. But, hindsight is 20/20.

The thing was in Japan you had SONY and NEC ready to go in 94 and also Nintendo looking to go in 1995 (before the delay) SEGA Japan couldn't really wait and didn't need too. It should also be remembered that the Mega Drive came out in 88. 6 years lifespan for any console is more than enough imo

[gamevet]

Any CD based system in 1994 was going to cost a lot of money. But to me the only people who buy Hardware on day 1, are the die hards and the people who will pay loads of money to get a system on day one. I wasn't a fan of the Jupiter project, but that made far more sense to me, than the 32X.

Eh, the SEGA CD was selling for $99 in 1993 and it had it’s own hardware in addition to the CD drive. The Saturn had way to much silicon under its hood to be cost effective. It was already guaranteed to lose more money per unit sold, than the competition.

[Gryson]

Eh, the SEGA CD was selling for $99 in 1993 and it had it’s own hardware in addition to the CD drive. The Saturn had way to much silicon under its hood to be cost effective. It was already guaranteed to lose more money per unit sold, than the competition.

Uh, source? It's a bit hard to believe a new Model 2 Sega CD was selling for $99 in 1993. The Model 2 was released in mid-1993 with a $300 price tag.

[Team Andromeda]

Eh, the SEGA CD was selling for $99 in 1993 and it had it’s own hardware in addition to the CD drive. The Saturn had way to much silicon under its hood to be cost effective. It was already guaranteed to lose more money per unit sold, than the competition.

The Saturn was shipping with a double speed drive and over 2MB of ram... That was not cheap in 1994 and was reflected in the price of the PS, Saturn and PC Engine FX. Even a double speed PC CD Drive in 94 cost over £100 and that was just a drive with no extra Hardware or more system RAM. CD drives and RAM in the mid 90's were not cheap. The Mega CD on its launch cost more than the Saturn and took years and a complete redesign to get the price down below £200 and even then in 94 a Mega CD was costing over £140 for just the unit.

It usually takes a year and more, before one sees the big price drops on brand new next gen hardware

[gamevet]

Uh, source? It's a bit hard to believe a new Model 2 Sega CD was selling for $99 in 1993. The Model 2 was released in mid-1993 with a $300 price tag.

My dates are a little off. The model 2 launched in October of 1993 with a suggested retail price of $229, which I believe was in place to help move the unsold model 1 units. I recall getting mine in very late 1993 (with Lunar:TSS) for $149 and I believe by early spring of 1994, they were dropped down to $99.

The Saturn was shipping with a double speed drive and over 2MB of ram... That was not cheap in 1994 and was reflected in the price of the PS, Saturn and PC Engine FX. Even a double speed PC CD Drive in 94 cost over £100 and that was just a drive with no extra Hardware or more system RAM. CD drives and RAM in the mid 90's were not cheap. The Mega CD on its launch cost more than the Saturn and took years and a complete redesign to get the price down below £200 and even then in 94 a Mega CD was costing over £140 for just the unit.

It usually takes a year and more, before one sees the big price drops on brand new next gen hardware

The Sega CD launched in 1991, when ROM drives (was it really a ROM drive?) were still pretty new. It also had an additional 12Mhz 68K CPU, a processor for hardware scaling, 6Mbit of system RAM, several other chips and a motorized drive door. The 1993 drive was super cheap to manufacture and was selling for 1/3rd of the price by December. Adding a double speed drive shouldn't double the price of a ROM drive, especially when you consider that Sony could sell the PlayStation at a lean $300.

Just look at the difference in the boards between the Saturn and PlayStation. It doesn't take a genius to see that one is a lot harder and more expensive to manufacture.

[Gryson]

In late '93 when Sega was considering both the Saturn and Jupiter systems (differing only in the presence/absence of the CD-ROM drive), the estimated retail price difference was going to be $100.

In 1997, it is estimated that the PS1's CD-ROM "subsystem" cost $48.50, and that's for a drive manufactured by Sony:

My dates are a little off. The model 2 launched in October of 1993 with a suggested retail price of $229, which I believe was in place to help move the unsold model 1 units. I recall getting mine in very late 1993 (with Lunar:TSS) for $149 and I believe by early spring of 1994, they were dropped down to $99.

Do you have any proof of this? I couldn't find any weekly ads from the time, but I browsed through the listings from Dec. 1994 issues of both GamePro and EGM and all retailers had prices for Model 2 systems between $200 and $230. Other system prices were accurate from what I know. Listings for Genesis units were $80-100. I'm pretty skeptical that you could walk into a retailer and purchase a Sega CD for $99 in early spring 1994.

[Da_Shocker]

Aint know way in hell could SEga go back and redesign the Saturn. Now what they could've done is actually given 3rd party support way better development tools that were more on par with what Sony was doing.

[Team Andromeda]

My dates are a little off. The model 2 launched in October of 1993 with a suggested retail price of $229, which I believe was in place to help move the unsold model 1 units. I recall getting mine in very late 1993 (with Lunar:TSS) for $149 and I believe by early spring of 1994, they were dropped down to $99.

I still have most of my Gamefan and EGM mag's from the time (Gamefan was my fav mag at the time)

Here's EGM September 1993



and then Gamefan September 1994



So the Mega CD/SEGA CD was quite expensive in 1993 and 1994 .

The 1993 drive was super cheap to manufacture and was selling for 1/3rd of the price by December. Adding a double speed drive shouldn't double the price of a ROM drive, especially when you consider that Sony could sell the PlayStation at a lean $300.

CD drivers we exensive and also the RAM those systems needed and you saw that in the price. With the, Saturn, FX, Neo Geo coming in at over 40,000, even SONY with its huge manufacturing plants and part inventor on the CD drive had to ask 39,800 Yen on launch.