Paprium: The Official Thread Mk 2

[molasar]

Shill cope, anyone with a decent understanding on the genre (not many apparently) knows that it's barely more than just a bloated tech demo. Collectors will just latch onto anything as long as they get their plastic and the presentation of the game is decent.

What makes you think that you have a decent understanding on the genre? In the 80s and 90s I considered beat'em ups as mindless and easy to pick up entertainment. Yes, some of them offered more sophisticated stuff but if I was looking for it, it was always in fighting games. In other words Paprium is not a tech demo. It has everything covered on decent level at least.

[Frost Blossom]

At this point I've played Paprium mainly on Paprium difficulty. And yeah, jump kick beats almost everything. Of course you have to have some semblance of timing and positioning but that's really what I do 90% of the time. Mainly jump kick, throw at times (Throw mechanic is the most interesting thing about combat btw), jab to stun an enemy once in awhile. That's pretty much it. I don't use BLU either.

It doesn't help that the game further promotes getting frequent knockdowns because of the dizzy mechanic.

[Pain for Fun]

Is there a thread yet here on Sega-16 forum for all the Sega - Genesis / Mega Drive consoles models & revisions that are & are not compatible with Paprium? We need a list of models, revisions, & serial numbers so we can try to figure out what the problem really is with console compatibility.

I am a new member & can not make a new thread myself or I would do so. By the way hello my fellow Genesis / Mega Drive console fans & I am glad I can finally talk with all the awesome people here on this forum.

[Pain for Fun]

Hey majinga, what did you use to remove the epoxy & was it hard to remove from the chips?

[Vludi]

What makes you think that you have a decent understanding on the genre?

I think a good beat 'em up should be about making the gameplay fun and interesting rather than just bloating it with pointless content and focusing mostly on the tech demo aspect, for one.

In the 80s and 90s I considered beat'em ups as mindless and easy to pick up enetertainment. Yes, some of them offered more sophisticated stuff but if I was looking for it, it was always in fighting games.

Maybe the mindless one was the player, a lot of the games especially stuff like Capcom arcades were designed to spend many hours learning the games' intrincacies (moveset, enemy behavior, crowd control etc.) until you get good enough to 1cc. And comparing beat 'em ups to fighting games doesn't make sense they are completely different things, beat 'em ups focus on vs. CPU not PvP.

In other words Paprium is not a tech demo. It has everything covered on decent level at least.

Basic level I'd say, Fonzie just wanted a pretty tech demo with many sprites moving on screen, but he didn't really understand its gameplay implications, after 8 years of development. That's the big difference between Paprium and an actual good beat 'em up like Ninja Warriors Again on the SFC, the later is a single player game with only 4 enemies on screen, but the gameplay is extremely polished and well-rounded considering its technical limitations to the point it doesn't even matter, it's all a matter of priorities.

[molasar]

I think a good beat 'em up should be about making the gameplay fun and interesting rather than just bloating it with pointless content and focusing mostly on the tech demo aspect, for one.

I wish SOR2 was interesting and had fun gameplay instead of being a tech demo.

Maybe the mindless one was the player, a lot of the games especially stuf like Capcom arcades were designed to spent many hours learning the games' intrincacies (moveset, enemy behavior, crowd control etc.) until you get good enough to 1cc. And comparing beat 'em ups to fighting games doesn't make sense they are completely different things, beat 'em ups focus on vs. CPU not PvP.

I do not know where are you from but in the 80/90s in my country beat'em ups were always seen as games that do not require a lot of learning like fighting games. Things you mentioned about intriccacies and 1cc run were for hardcore gamers. And yes, my comparison makes sense because fighting games focus on both modes.

Basic level I'd say, Fonzie just wanted a pretty tech demo with many sprites moving on screen, but he didn't really understand its gameplay implications, after 8 years of developent.

We knew that Fonzie wanted to squeeze all the juices out from hardware with adding extra stuff to it thanks to extra chipset. And gameplay system is good enough. Better than slow and boring SOR2's gameplay to me.
Anyway we already established before that each one of us have different expectations and preferences in regards to this genre. Thus I see why you do not like it.

[zredgemz]

What makes you think that you have a decent understanding on the genre? In the 80s and 90s I considered beat'em ups as mindless and easy to pick up entertainment. Yes, some of them offered more sophisticated stuff but if I was looking for it, it was always in fighting games. In other words Paprium is not a tech demo. It has everything covered on decent level at least.

Everyone not him does not even know what a beat'em is or anything about the Genre. No point arguing with a expert.

[Vludi]

I wish SOR2 was interesting and had fun gameplay instead of being a tech demo.

It does have those though, the game isn't perfect but still has proper depth and effort put into the gameplay instead of just being a mindless jump kick fest like Paprium, not to mention developed in a fraction of Paprium's dev time in the early 90s, and I'm not even the biggest SoR2 fan.

Beat 'em ups have more in common with single-player/co-op arcade genres like platformers or shooters than they have with fighting games, so again I find the comparison to fighting games to be kinda forced and shallow, fighting games are probably the worst arcade genre when it comes to vs. CPU gameplay. As for "hardcore" players, I don't know about your town but to me most frequent arcade players were somewhat "hardcore" back then, only the occasional tourist didn't care much (nothing wrong with that).

[Goati]

I'll just pop in to say that Vludi makes a point that should be clear to anybody who's even remotely trying to look at the product while being objective.
As much as you can enjoy playing Paprium, if you think it's anywhere close to being a good beat 'em up, with its horridly boring infinite corridors of jumpkicking through the same enemies then, well, no point arguing with those making the point that that's not how a decent beat 'em up plays, personal enjoyment or not.
And I've seen people play it over and over again, even though it's clearly not that good, and there's nothing wrong with that either.

I personally enjoy lots of bad games but if somebody is giving their opinion (and I know Vludi's experience in the genre), no need to get personal and defensive, especially over such a controversial game that is going to attract all kinds of critics.
It's a videogame in the end so as long as you have fun with it it's good, it's just funny when you read stuff like 'paprium is good' or 'you can jumpkick through most beat 'em ups'.

No harm meant peace love

[molasar]

It does have those though, the game isn't perfect but still has proper depth instead of just being a mindless jump kick fest like Paprium, in a fraction of Paprium's development time, and I'm not even the biggest SoR2 fan.

Again proper depth I expect in fighting games not beat'em ups. A game has to be good enough to keep me playing it and find out about it. SOR2 was not one of them. Also you playing Paprium by using a jump kick only is your own choice. And I do not know what we are really comparing in terms of development time. Active time (hours, minutes, seconds) of development? Initial planning? Matching up gameplay to size and number of objects on screen? Generally what rating criteria system is established for it?

Beat 'em ups have more in common with single-player/co-op arcade genres like platformers or shooters than they have with fighting games, so again I find the comparison to fighting games to be kinda forced and shallow, fighting games are probably the worst arcade genre when it comes to vs. CPU gameplay. As for "hardcore" players, I don't know about your town but to me most frequent arcade players were somewhat "hardcore" back then.

Back in the day things were evolving and experimented on quite fast. Simple beat'em ups on one plane with platforms to ones where you could walk vertically. Even both were considered as one genre as long as you could kick and punch in it. No one was expecting depth but good gameplay and fun with nice graphics and music. Also bear in mind that I do not see you as a video game expert or historian.
And what do you mean by bad CPU gameplay in arcade versions of fighting games? Do you suggest that no one played in this mode because it did act like human player? In my town we were moving from game to game pretty fast. There was not even enough time to become a hardcore player.

[PreZZ]

Im super pissed everybody’s been playing it for the past 3 weeks, while
Im still waiting for my game and sticks, i’ve seen all the footage and the game wont really be a surprise anymore, thanks Fonzie for the awesome customer service as always top notch

[Vludi]

Also you playing Paprium by using a jump kick only is your own choice.

I love when people blame the player for the game being poorly balanced and giving you limited tools to spice things up, classic, the thing is good games don't have that.

[molasar]

I'll just pop in to say that Vludi makes a point that should be clear to anybody who's even remotely trying to look at the product while being objective.

For being objective you need to establish a rating criteria system accepted by every participant. Vludi is not using one of them.

As much as you can enjoy playing Paprium, if you think it's anywhere close to being a good beat 'em up, with its horridly boring infinite corridors of jumpkicking through the same enemies then, well, no point arguing with those making the point that that's not how a decent beat 'em up plays, personal enjoyment or not.
And I've seen people play it over and over again, even though it's clearly not that good, and there's nothing wrong with that either.

Again different expectations and preferences. IMO beat'em ups should not be too long. Also constant jumpkicking is a player choice and SOR2 has boring corridors with same enemies too.
Not to mention there is a difference between when you play safe a game to discover or unlock new stuff and when you play it for gameplay only no matter if you lose or win. Yes, Paprium is a long game in original mode.

I personally enjoy lots of bad games but if somebody is giving their opinion (and I know Vludi's experience in the genre), no need to get personal and defensive, especially over such a controversial game that is going to attract all kinds of critics.

There is a difference between stating something as an opinion and stating something as a fact. I do not know what Vludi's experience is. Is it in playing games, I have it too or is it in developing the best of them, well I do not have it e.g. in Capcom's AvP development.

It's a videogame in the end so as long as you have fun with it it's good, it's just funny when you read stuff like 'paprium is good' or 'you can jumpkick through most beat 'em ups'.

But you wrote yourself that if someone has fun with Paprium, then it is good. Yet it is funny when somebody wrote it based on their own experience with it. Also yes, in many beat'em ups jumpkick can be exploited. Sadly a lot of fun is lost by doing so.

No harm meant peace love

Exactly, no hard feelings. I see it as a civilized discussion between us even if you or Vludi has different opinion than mine.

[molasar]

I love when people blame the player for the game being poorly balanced and giving you limited tools to spice things up, classic, the thing is good games don't have that.

You should see discussions over balance in a game like Predator: Hunting Grounds. Everyone there wants it in a different way.

[Vludi]

You should see discussions over balance in a game like Predator: Hunting Grounds. Everyone there wants it in a different way.

You should care for good gameplay on games that aren't just fighting/multiplayer, just sayin'