Paprium: The Official Thread Mk 2

[Barone]

I don't know if they were all posted here, but we were shown at least five screenshots of different areas. Not that it's a lot (we should see a trailer, I think), but at least it wasn't just two.

lol
Yeah, five not two, huge difference, right? And WM cared to put Photoshop effects on them in order to help us to see how the game actually looks.
Oh and there's almost half of the cover where the two characters shown have their faces looking almost identical to each other despite they being rather different according to the few sprites we have seen. But it was drawn by the almighty XGoldenboyX under the influence of godlike artists, so it's awesome.

What a joke.

[zetastrike]

Is anyone else not thrilled with the music we've been shown? I've been following the composers on soundcloud and it all pretty much sounds the same to me. It's a very minimal melody with harsh beats and overuse of samples. IDK if they're trying to be a modern day Yuzo circa-SoR3, but it's not pleasant to listen to at all.

[Kamahl]

Is anyone else not thrilled with the music we've been shown? I've been following the composers on soundcloud and it all pretty much sounds the same to me. It's a very minimal melody with harsh beats and overuse of samples. IDK if they're trying to be a modern day Yuzo circa-SoR3, but it's not pleasant to listen to at all.

The actual Project Y sampler that was released sounds massively better than their usual soundcloud stuff (Jredd loves overusing samples to the detriment of his songs lol...). The sampler sounds so much better than SoR3, it's not even close. It's not super melodic like SoR 2, but it wouldn't fit the setting if it was.

https://soundcloud.com/tulioadriano/project-y-sampler2-by

If you dig deeper for the songs where they don't mess around as much, they sound really nice and melodic:

https://soundcloud.com/jredd/amber-tavern

[Nitroman]

You can have RPGs without levelling systems. I don't even agree with tbp. As long as you can somehow change your stats, it's an RPG. It can be through leveling, through items, through skill use, or even simply by being hit (Legend of Xanadu 2).

Watermelon has plenty of room to work.

At least, it's what we consider to be an "RPG" these days. Associating "Role play" with "stat manipulation" is beyond ridiculous for anyone that's played a real RPG, but I digress.

Remember what were RPGs before they moved on the computers? They grow from tabletop games where card with stats of your character meets card with stats of the monster, simply put. YES, "stat manipulation" is true RPG, ridiculous was one guy who tried to convince me that BO was an action-rpg. RPG on Genesis -- Shadowrun. When you shoot the enemy and hear "w-o-o-o"-sound, you missed because of your low firearms skill (unlucky virtual dice roll), but on screen you may "hit" him.

[Kamahl]

Remember what were RPGs before they moved on the computers? They grow from tabletop games where card with stats of your character meets card with stats of the monster, simply put.

You have plenty of RPGs where your stats matter very little. There's a whole spectrum from who cares about stats (FATE) to you better bring a scientific calculator (GURPS).
DnD is just one RPG, and basically a middle ground depending on the DM.

The entire point is role playing. Stats and levels only exists to give the world some stability. Otherwise the DM and players would just pull stuff out of their ass. You have stats in RPGs because there's nothing else you can have. Only total munchkins actually enjoy min-maxing them. It was never the intent.

[Rapha7]

C'mon, Barone. I just said there are five screenshots, instead of two. Never said it's a big deal.
About the character sprites, as XGoldenboyX said, they've been improved since those screenshots were taken. So, we can't be sure of how they'll look like, until the game (or at least a trailer) is finally released.

Well, since we have an idea of how the game will look and sound like, right now I'm more concerned about gameplay. How fluent the combat system will be, how many enemies on screen, what those RPG elements WM said actually are, how many levels...
Things like that we have not a single clue.

[Nitroman]

You have plenty of RPGs where your stats matter very little. There's a whole spectrum from who cares about stats (FATE) to you better bring a scientific calculator (GURPS).
DnD is just one RPG, and basically a middle ground depending on the DM.

In "Eldritch Horror" each character is just 4 stats. Yet still it's table top RPG.

The entire point is role playing. Stats and levels only exists to give the world some stability. Otherwise the DM and players would just pull stuff out of their ass. You have stats in RPGs because there's nothing else you can have. Only total munchkins actually enjoy min-maxing them. It was never the intent.

Stats are description of the character and surrounding world, not some crap you put under your couch to give him stability. Yes, the number of stats may be high or low, but they must be there.

[Kamahl]

Stats are description of the character and surrounding world, not some crap you put under your couch to give him stability. Yes, the number of stats may be high or low, but they must be there. In "Eldritch Horror" each character is just 4 stats.

FATE has no stats, only skills you can have a proficiency in (you're either good at it or not). PRIMEVAL has no stats or skills.

It's in the name, ROLE PLAYING game. You take out that part and you have a table top. Plenty of stats in a table top.

[Nitroman]

I'm not sure what PRIMEVAL is, but the rest of your words are basically catches what I'm trying to say, actually. Stats, skills, all of them, yes. Let's see will Project Y have any of them or WM just adds some so-called elements, like multiple paths, shops and a world map. Sorry, guys, it's not RPG-elements. Multiple paths was in Contra: Hard Corps and shops in racing games.

[Kamahl]

I'm not sure what PRIMEVAL is, but the rest of your words are basically catches what I'm trying to say, actually. Stats, skills, all of them, yes. Let's see will Project Y have any of them or WM just adds some so-called elements, like multiple paths, shops and a world map. Sorry, guys, it's not RPG-elements. Multiple paths was in Contra: Hard Corps and shops in racing games.

Your definition of RPG is simply wrong. Now, you can have it of course, but it's wrong.

Let's say Project Y works like this: When you start the game you choose between 3 characters (each has different stats), you might be able to shift them a bit (like make a character a bit stronger at the expense of speed). As you progress the game, at the end of every stage, there's a shop where you can buy an item that increases one stat.

Is this an RPG? You'd probably say no. But that's actually more stat manipulation than FATE, and fate is an RPG.

But that's the ridiculous notion of just looking at stats. The whole point of FATE are character decisions. You have RPG systems based around the interpretation of clues. PRIMEVAL is mostly based around dice rolls and quick thinking.

Stats are secondary. It's all about role playing. Computer Console RPGs don't have any roleplaying, so the name is ridiculous.

(A lot of computer RPGs actually do the role play part rather well. Planescape Torment )

[Nitroman]

Your definition of RPG is simply wrong. Now, you can have it of course, but it's wrong.

Let's say Project Y works like this: When you start the game you choose between 3 characters (each has different stats), you might be able to shift them a bit (like make a character a bit stronger at the expense of speed). As you progress the game, at the end of every stage, there's a shop where you can buy an item that increases one stat.

Is this an RPG? You'd probably say no. But that's actually more stat manipulation than FATE, and fate is an RPG.

But that's the ridiculous notion of just looking at stats. The whole point of FATE are character decisions. You have RPG systems based around the interpretation of clues. PRIMEVAL is mostly based around dice rolls and quick thinking.

Stats are secondary. It's all about role playing. Computer RPGs don't have any roleplaying, so the name is ridiculous.

Computer RPGs have roleplaying because they have involving writing and role-playing system built into them. 2+2 gives you incredible experience. Only second "two" gives you modern console RPG, yet still!

Let's just say this: in Project Y your character will not do any roll checks based on his stat/skill on every move. No "pass -2 melee combat check to hit the enemy", unlike shadowrun, YOU must beat the crap out of everyone, not your character and you alone (and your companion). And PY will be just a beat-em-up with some interesting gameplay features.

[Kamahl]

What if enemies in Project Y have a % chance to dodge a punch. How do you distinguish that from an internal "pass -2 melee combat check to hit the enemy". You can't really.

Turn based systems require dice rolls, but real-time systems don't, they can be replaced by reflexes. When you mix an RPG with a Beat'em up, if you take dice rolls from the RPG you're just bringing down the Beat'em up part.

Terranigma is a SNES RPG where you don't really have a chance to hit (if you hit, you hit, there's no "miss"). Same goes for Front Mission Gun Hazard. Both Action RPGs. FM GH doesn't even have random item drops. It has level ups and stats though, which apparently is enough?

An even better example is Blood Gear on the PC Engine. Some random item drops, but: no levelling, your damage is fixed according to your stats and weapon, you raise stats with money. Nobody considers the game an "action adventure" game, it's an RPG. And yet, no levelling, no dice rolls.

Face it, the entire idea of the console RPG is ridiculous. All you have are games with more or less RPG (meaning DnD) elements.

Computer RPGs where you actually have to explore the world, and make the decisions. Those are the real deal.

[Nitroman]

Face it, the entire idea of the console RPG is ridiculous. All you have are games with more or less RPG (meaning DnD) elements.

Computer RPGs where you actually have to explore the world, and make the decisions. Those are the real deal.

THE real deal -- both of this in one game. Console "rpgs" is ridiculous, good that we understand each other there, but...

Turn based systems require dice rolls, but real-time systems don't, they can be replaced by reflexes. When you mix an RPG with a Beat'em up, if you take dice rolls from the RPG you're just bringing down the Beat'em up part.

No you can't. Modern game example: Fallout 3/NV -- you may be good at FPS, but if your Energy Weapon skill is low, you will never do any serious harm to enemy on distance with Laser Pistol. Older: In Shadowrun if skill roll check fail -- you'll never shoot anyone better than ghoul in short time. Both are very immersive and time eating games.

Terranigma is a SNES RPG where you don't really have a chance to hit (if you hit, you hit, there's no "miss"). Same goes for Front Mission Gun Hazard. Both Action RPGs. FM GH doesn't even have random item drops. It has level ups and stats though, which apparently is enough?

Terranigma is an Action-Adventure, still. FM: Gun Hazard -- Action. Just action like Cybernator or Ranger-X. But with boring stuff.

An even better example is Blood Gear on the PC Engine. Some random item drops, but: no levelling, your damage is fixed according to your stats and weapon, you raise stats with money. Nobody considers the game an "action adventure" game, it's an RPG. And yet, no levelling, no dice rolls.

And it's not RPG either.

What if enemies in Project Y have a % chance to dodge a punch. How do you distinguish that from an internal "pass -2 melee combat check to hit the enemy". You can't really.

If enemy dodges -- your melee combat skill is low/enemy have high enough dodge skill.

Face it, the core of RPG is math, bunch of formulas and skill/stat sheets. Simpliest maybe, but still math.
The core idea: In RPG YOU the character and player. In other games you as the player control some character.

[Groovemaster303]

Is anyone else not thrilled with the music we've been shown? I've been following the composers on soundcloud and it all pretty much sounds the same to me. It's a very minimal melody with harsh beats and overuse of samples. IDK if they're trying to be a modern day Yuzo circa-SoR3, but it's not pleasant to listen to at all.

Project Y does have a few vocal samples in a couple of tracks but not overkill as sample memory would not allow it.
Matteus has recently listened to the whole soundtrack as I wanted an opinion from somebody not on the team but also someone who I can trust.

Yuzo has been a huge influence on many peoples music, including my own but when I use samples on tracks like Scratch Bump Slide my inspiration is Hideki Naganuma.
Our soundcloud accounts feature music we make for fun. Sometimes we really push our abilities to the max like with Pump It (Scratchin The Vinyl mix), Gold Fist Zone and the Casino Night remix but we also like to experiment with some crazy ideas too. The Drum Run Rave was an experiment as was Bonus Stage Battle.

With Project Y we worked really hard to produce music in a variety of styles and themes. The sampler features some of our more powerful music but some of the jazzier and lower tempo music sounds pretty cool too. Overall I think we did a good job and the response I got back from Matteus was really good too. So hopefully the majority of people will enjoy the soundtrack too when the game is released.

[Kamahl]

Terranigma is an Action-Adventure, still. FM: Gun Hazard -- Action. Just action like Cybernator or Ranger-X. But with boring stuff.
And it's not RPG either.

In your opinion . Well, I agree, but by the definition of console RPG, they are. And that's the definition Project Y is free to use.