Paprium: The Official Thread Mk 2

[loempiavreter]

I'menpretty sure that denjin makai 2 matches yours tastes because his gameplay is one of the most complete.

Denjin Makai 2 is the best belt scroller bar none. No question there.

Tbh I do kind of agree with SEGA-Jorge. I mean I can't really play it because of the crashes (furthest I got before a crash, was stage 3), but i had my hopes on a basic but good crowd control experience (see Final Fight 1 arcade), definately because of the crowds of enemies it could generate onscreen for a megadrive console. Unfortunately yes it's definately not near those hopes. The moveset is not tight enough and doesn't offer enough control to be truly interesting. The panic button doesn't offer any coherent strategies compared to a megacrunch from final fight for say. The weapons are unbalanced. The mounts don't do much to cook up different strategies.

It's a bit of a letdown in this department...

But Paprium definately has the aesthetics down. The saxguy honking a saxsolo over the BGM is a nice touch for some variation of music, the graphical touches with the zooms and the people walking in front of the screen and with sprites zooming in and out, the screen shaking, the transparacy graphics at places, the big sprite sizes... it really adds to the experience imo, as do the soundbites of the speeches and audio. the different paths and the way to unlock them (with thrones). But the original mode really elevates this game into something, and hate to say it as the fella who was against the RPG elements, more interesting. But like SEGA-Jorge, I just have to value it less as a Beat'em up/Belt scroller and more as someting else entirely.

The secret rooms.... could've been so much more. Zombie Revenge for example, where you have have to strategize on your routes which secret room you visit. That could've been something for Paprium. I mean it's kind of there, with some items causing damage, similar to Zombie Revenge, but everything feels less planned out and designed as Zombie Revenge. I really like the boss character designs even if it's just a guy in his speedos a couple of times (blame the Fist of the North Star parenting my childhood as Ken Il Saviour), wish their attacks and patterns were more interesting though :P

Again I have to made up this opinion from a faulty Crash savvy Paprium and videos of playthroughs, but i think i got a solid feel now.

I would still value it an overall experience somewhere at the top of the Megadrive beat' em up catalogue tbh, as the competitors ain't to great.

Personally I definately see the game more comparible to Super Famicom beat'em ups like and if I would take the Rushing Beat series as an example it definately is better as the first one and Rushing Beat Ran. And more on par with something like Rushing Beat Shura, which is another belt scroller with solid presentation and letdown gamemeat. I would def grade it better as Sonic Blastman 1-2, again in presentation alone, i would put it under Gourmet Sentai: Yara Barou, which has the better fighting system and pretty equal presentation.

[SEGA-Jorge]

What are your best bta, sega-jorge ?
Cps 1 and 2 bta ?
Sor serie ?
Pgm bta ?
Konami bta, golden axe death adder, undercover cops, denjin makai 2, new zero team etc...

I'm pretty sure that denjin makai 2 matches yours tastes because his gameplay is one of the most complete.

My favorite Beat 'em Ups are definitely the SOR/GA and Capcom stuff. I like some older Data East and Konami stuff, and I like the Technos stuff a lot. I don't dislike Paprium. It has it's own pace and combat, and I think I just need to give it time to play out. I do like the movement a lot. I like the ability to move quickly, I just wish there were more things to do.

A thing I noticed, holding the B button still allows you to do moves, so holding B, then pressing down, still gives you the "Bully" move. Holding B and pressing away still blocks, and holding B then double tapping forward does the running attack. This is important cause now you can actually break the standard attack string without having to cancel into Bully to do it. You can do the first 2-3 hits of your standard attack string, hold the last hit and double tap forward and get you running attack without having to run. (In case you didn't know, you can extend combos by just canceling into bully then going back to your attack string, this clears the move buffer. (resets the string))

[CrossBow]

Another test to execute (suggestion):
- Having passed the copyright screen with an switched off Sega CD connected, carefully remove the Sega CD from the expansion slot and see if the game keeps running fine.
- If yes, it would reinforce the theory that all this one bug is about is the hardware bootup sequence which is likely being executed at the copyright screen.

This worked on my va6 that won't boot past the copyright screen. I attached it to the SegaCD and then waited until the title screen came up. At that point I carefully pulled the Genesis away and off the SegaCD connection and the game continued to work or at least it didn't lock up and was going through attract/demo mode for awhile without issue. So it could very well be something with the peripherals check at the beginning. I wonder if some of the models are giving a false check causing the game to try and init a device that might not actually be attached?

[Barone]

Thanks you so much for validating that scenario, CrossBow.

I think the "wrong" impedance value at one or more of the expansion slot pins can make Paprium believe that there's a Sega CD attached to most MD1 VA6s (and early MD2s) and then it locks up when it tries to access the Sega CD address space.
It might be some slightly different readings causing all this trouble.

Probably just a poorly designed add-on detection routine after all.

[Vludi]

Your posts are formative Sega-Jorge so thanks, butTh anyway, if that's so, why bother trying to make something more than vectorized hitboxes then? Galsia could have been 2-3 changing-color coded rectangles and gameplay would be 100% the same (also SoR would have taken less space than Columns and the benefit per cart would have been higher, considering flash shortage at that time)

As long as your visuals are functional to the gameplay, people who care about good games first don't care that much for graphics really, it's nice if it's pretty but it's not essential, as long as the gameplay is good you can make good games wth minimal graphics (Downwell comes to mind as a random example), while the opposite isn't possible.
And Paprium doesn't even look as polished as early Neo geo beat 'em ups like Mutation Nation, 8 Man or Robo Army, despite having 30 more megs than those.

[molasar]

Denjin Makai 2 is the best belt scroller bar none. No question there.

Lol. How come? What should make me think this way?

[loempiavreter]

Lol. How come? What should make me think this way?

Fighting system = fighting game level + it's juggle savvy for those into it, Crowd Control = sizeable enemy crowds, Content = big amount of selectable characters and unique movesets, Aesthetics = tons of hidden stuff happening in the background, Technical = big sprites, arcade level presentation (zooming), soundpr0n.

[Rapha7]

Japanese Model 1 HAA-2510 (V6): doesn't work, game hangs on the "Not licensed, sponsored or endorsed by SEGA" screen.

Does it have TMSS? My main version is a Model 1 HAA-2510, but it's a V5, since it has the "AV Intelligent Terminal/High Grade Multipurpose Use" text and doesn't have TMSS. Hope it works on mine, otherwise I'm gonna have to put my model 2 to use and MegaAmp it for the a better experience.

[Phantar]

That's weird that a launch console with a low serial would have a VA6. A case swap occured at some point.

I also thought it would be a V0 because of the low serial no., that's why I was so certain that it must be aV0 at first. I also have no idea when a case swap would have occurred; this was the first Mega Drive I ever had, it has been in my possession for over 30 years, and it never had any other owner than me aside from the hardware importer that my family got it from way back in 1989.

Does it have TMSS? My main version is a Model 1 HAA-2510, but it's a V5, since it has the "AV Intelligent Terminal/High Grade Multipurpose Use" text and doesn't have TMSS. Hope it works on mine, otherwise I'm gonna have to put my model 2 to use and MegaAmp it for the a better experience.

No TMSS, no. Is that the only way do differentiate a V5 from a V6, or is there another way? (maybe I should take and post some pictures, I think I must've gotten something mixed up).

[molasar]

As long as your visuals are functional to the gameplay, people who care about good games first don't care that much for graphics really, it's nice if it's pretty but it's not essential, as long as the gameplay is good you can make good games wth minimal graphics (Downwell comes to mind as a random example), while the opposite isn't possible.
And Paprium doesn't even look as polished as early Neo geo beat 'em ups like Mutation Nation, 8 Man or Robo Army, despite having 30 more megs than those.

Functionality and playability are two different things. A combination of proper gameplay, visuals and sounds are essential because they add to the the latter a lot. If you go below or above some level with visuals, you can easily mess it up. And many games suffer from it. Also I do not remember one Neo Geo beat'em up that has more attractive art style than Paprium.

But then again it is all about individual preferences.

[molasar]

Fighting system = fighting game level + it's juggle savvy for those into it, Crowd Control = sizeable enemy crowds, Content = big amount of selectable characters and unique movesets, Aesthetics = tons of hidden stuff happening in the background, Technical = big sprites, arcade level presentation (zooming), soundpr0n.

I have played it and I have not found anything attractive about it for its time.

[Rapha7]

Well, according to the "Telling apart good Genesis 1s and Genesis 2s from bad ones" topic, it's the only way, as the V5 and V6 PCBs are identical in the HAA-2510 models.

[Vludi]

Functionality and playability are two different things. A combination of proper gameplay, visuals and sounds are essential because they add to the the latter a lot. If you go below or above some level with visuals, you can easily mess it up.

Again, none of that is relevant is the gameplay is bad already, no presentation can salvage bad gameplay, but good gameplay sure as hell can salvage a meh presentation.

Also I do not remember one Neo Geo beat'em up that has more attractive art style than Paprium.

for real? the one thing early neo geo beat 'em ups had was good art-style (except for Burning Fight), Paprium looks just ok to me, Mutation Nation and Sengoku 2 are much more appealing in both animation and art-style.

[loempiavreter]

I have played it and I have not found anything attractive about it for its time.

Maybe the aesthetics are not for you... but you can't disagree that the game is tight as hell. Hanging out in Shibuya's Arcades and seeing proper denjin makai II players in the arcades was always a joy.

[Phantar]

Hm, so it's not v6 either... Definitely no TMSS. Probably V5 then. I guess I will need to post a few pictures at some point. It definitely has "Non-AV Intelligent Terminal/High Grade Multipurpose Use model" printed on the case.