Paprium: The Official Thread Mk 2

[Kamon]

Has anyone else here had the thought that there should be some kind of a clear distinction between the term "homebrew" vs "indie" these days? IMO, I consider homebrew as simple stuff that is shared among friends or a small community. For example, the 240P test suite or Project MD.

I consider Xenocrisis to be an indie game as it is a polished, full game that is currently being sold as an indie title in currently online stores as well as physical media. Same with Tanglewood.

IMO, Paprium falls under the "indie" label even if it is exclusive to the Genesis/Mega Drive.

Nah, by that definition Paprium is homebrew because it's been 'shared' with less people than 240p test suite or the indies that actually let you have ROMs or ISOs so it's pretty obscure

[DarkKobold]

Has anyone else here had the thought that there should be some kind of a clear distinction between the term "homebrew" vs "indie" these days? IMO, I consider homebrew as simple stuff that is shared among friends or a small community. For example, the 240P test suite or Project MD.

I consider Xenocrisis to be an indie game as it is a polished, full game that is currently being sold as an indie title in currently online stores as well as physical media. Same with Tanglewood.

IMO, Paprium falls under the "indie" label even if it is exclusive to the Genesis/Mega Drive.

I thought this was funny, because one of your only distinctions was polished, and most people consider Paprium to be the opposite of this.

I figure "indie" is the studio, and "homebrew" is the game (at least in reference to retro games). I don't really see the need for the distinction though. Also, there are a lot of "indie" studios producing games for modern systems that are huge compared to most groups who are writing games for old consoles.

Changing the label here just feels like an attempt to hold Paprium to a higher standard, just to be able to rip it down.

"Oh, its not homebrew, it's indie, therefore it's not good enough."

[Black_Tiger]

I thought this was funny, because one of your only distinctions was polished, and most people consider Paprium to be the opposite of this.

I figure "indie" is the studio, and "homebrew" is the game (at least in reference to retro games). I don't really see the need for the distinction though. Also, there are a lot of "indie" studios producing games for modern systems that are huge compared to most groups who are writing games for old consoles.

Changing the label here just feels like an attempt to hold Paprium to a higher standard, just to be able to rip it down.

"Oh, its not homebrew, it's indie, therefore it's not good enough."

I agree with youe points, but in the unique case of Paprium it has been held up to the highest standards by Fonze in every possible way, including ways we'd never have thought of, since development was first announced as beginning.

He promised that it was going to be the most technically advanced MD game ever (Tea Time sprite demo), the biggest 16-bit game ever made, it's worth thousands of dollars, etc. He compared it to Neo Geo and CPS games.

Watermelon had previously identified as being a professional company and not simply homebrew. Some time after the fundraising goal was reached, it came out that their biggest expense was paying Fonze a salary.

During development it was announced that an animation studio was being hired to do the sprite animation.

A professional TV commercial was made years ago.


These are not things that homebrew or indie devs do.



When some copies finally began to ship, Fonze sent out spam emails which included the following:

"SIZE shock: No other game packs so much original art, sound and gameplay in so few yet so many MEGs.
SPEED shock: No other game plays faster, better and stronger than PAPRIUM.
SOUND shock: No other game casts a more advanced score and astonishing sound quality than PAPRIUM.

PAPRIUM is the pinacle of video game programing, engineering and artistic excellence, nothing less, believe it or miss it!
Actually, PAPRIUM is much more than a game, it's the total and absolute victory against the odds."



No one is holding Paprium to a standard as high as Fonze is insisting it beats.

[ichbinian]

Oh yeah, there's certain members that seem to be continually getting drunk on the hatorade. They have no actual vested interest in the product, and hide under the guise of "just conversing." The problem is, hatorade is incredibly addictive. After 10 years of imbibing, it's difficult to give up, and so every controversy or issue is a new reason to try and sip a few more drinks of the hatorade. As much as they accuse you of being pollyanna-ish about Paprium, the negativity here far outweighs any positive voices.

Paprium's wait time and release was an absolute fiasco. Fonzie's narcissistic manifesto is a laughable joke. But, the game was released, and for a small studio is actually fairly impressive. Is it the best game ever? Of course not. But it is a top tier homebrew release.

Totally agree with everything said here. On an unrelated note, really looking forward to Cleopatra's Curse. Looks really cool

[avlon]

Nah, by that definition Paprium is homebrew because it's been 'shared' with less people than 240p test suite or the indies that actually let you have ROMs or ISOs so it's pretty obscure

Technically, "Paprium" hasn't been shared at all. It's been sold and AFAIK, sales numbers have not been released. To your point though, I admit, classification would be tricky in many cases with some overlap. For example, the 240p test suite is on sale through Megacat games.

I thought this was funny, because one of your only distinctions was polished, and most people consider Paprium to be the opposite of this.

I figure "indie" is the studio, and "homebrew" is the game (at least in reference to retro games). I don't really see the need for the distinction though. Also, there are a lot of "indie" studios producing games for modern systems that are huge compared to most groups who are writing games for old consoles.

Changing the label here just feels like an attempt to hold Paprium to a higher standard, just to be able to rip it down.

"Oh, its not homebrew, it's indie, therefore it's not good enough."

Paprium is more polished than say... Burning Fight. Like many other games, opinions will vary. Since my copy is in limbo, I can't particularly chime in as much as I'd like without actually playing it.

I didn't say anything about changing a label. My curiosity revolves around how people define what is homebrew and what is indie if at all.

In terms of Paprium, well, it was sold as something that is supposedly better than the retail releases from back in the day. Fancy commercials, packing, and a dude who badly wants to be the video game version of Steve Jobs. It should be judged as more than a simple "homebrew."

[turboxray]

Has anyone else here had the thought that there should be some kind of a clear distinction between the term "homebrew" vs "indie" these days? IMO, I consider homebrew as simple stuff that is shared among friends or a small community. For example, the 240P test suite or Project MD.

I consider Xenocrisis to be an indie game as it is a polished, full game that is currently being sold as an indie title in currently online stores as well as physical media. Same with Tanglewood.

IMO, Paprium falls under the "indie" label even if it is exclusive to the Genesis/Mega Drive.

It definitely blurs the line. It used to be pretty clear cut between homebrew and indie, but lately a lot of 'homebrew' stuff coming out on the Genesis is, partly or fully, by people from the professional game developing community. I normally categorize 'Indie' as an experienced professional team producing something for a closed platform - i.e. needs a publisher because they're too small, and still potentially a bond to cover risk from the publisher. That doesn't really fit the bill for steam, but quite a bit of stream 'indie' stuff shows up on closed platform consoles. Xenocrisis came out on other licensed platfoms - not just the MD, and by a professional team. WM, maybe besides one person, aren't professional game creators. Talent alone doesn't make you a professional. I guess that's how I draw the distinction between upper/uber tier 'homebrew' and 'indie'. It's not about talent and capability per se, but being a professional company. But yeah, it's not really easy to define (outside of personal opinions).

[matteus]

But it is a top tier homebrew release.

I'm not sure you can call a game with a 50k to 100k+ budget from preorders a homebrew!

[Iced Snowman]

You might want to stop blowing Fonzie from time to time to breathe a little. It's important to oxygenate your brain.

OH SNAP! That was off the charts! WOW!

[Iced Snowman]

Damn this merged thread bullshit as well, it's an unholy mix of people trying to work out when they might get their game along with people who are merrily playing through theirs! What a dumb decision.

You can thank Baloo for that decision.

[Iced Snowman]

No, no strings were never my thing so you got me there.

Nice one! Bravo!

[Iced Snowman]

New email. Nothing has changed except he is blaming some among us for interfering as the reason the game is being delayed. Frankly I think he's quite happy to have a scape goat for his shitty communication.

I didn't realize I'd ever get to a point where I would want to fucking just sell the game as soon as I got it but BOY am I getting close. What do I even have left to look forward to?

I got that same email. If I ever get my Investor's copy of Paprium, I'm sure that I can get $450.00+ for it, unopened, on eBay. That's definitely something to look forward to, from my perspective.

[Frost Blossom]

Paprium got the SIZE shock SPEED shock and SOUND shock sure I guess


It's just too bad it missed the GAMEPLAY shock

[cawley1]

Paprium got the SIZE shock SPEED shock and SOUND shock sure I guess


It's just too bad it missed the GAMEPLAY shock

I'd just like the DELIVERY shock (and it would be a bloody shock at this point!)

[tokay]

OH SNAP! That was off the charts! WOW!

Lol, hardcore! I did not see his message as I blocked him.
To think I wished the man well by suggesting him to work on his project to make it the best beat 'em up.
Now it is even funnier I got blamed for calling wannabe SEGA attorneys retards for pouring more fuel on the existing situation.
I should have not interacted with him, especially as he already seemed fishy when he was trying to stir some shit with Vetea (who ignored him as he deserved).
Don't know what's wrong with this little ball of hate. Maybe he has daddy issues or something wrong in his life? Hope he'll overcome.

He was the same on the WM forums... always defending Fonzie. I remember calling him the world’s most annoying fanboy. Classy as always

Yeah, you indeed called me that, even if there are evidences that I did not defend Fonzie no matter what.
People are being called fanboys when they don't ask for someone's death these days. So I'll gladly keep the title!
Speaking of "classy", I can quite remember you calling Project Y a scam, yet spamming numerous websites with your coupon code when WM launched its campaign.
One can still have a glimpse of this: https://www.google.ca/search?q=coupon+"8973573"
Thinking that the project is a scam, yet attracting new people in for personal gain isn't exactly what I'd call "classy".
Pot, kettle, black.

[axel]

I consider Paprium to be both indie and homebrew.

It's an indie game in terms of the overall presentation - the packaging, the manual, the commercial, the promotion etc. Quite impressive really.

Whenever something goes wrong, it's a homebrew game - it's just one guy doing all the shipping and customer service, he can't be expected to answer e-mails and work, etc.