Paprium: The Official Thread Mk 2

[crazyteknohed]

If enough people care a free petition will accomplish the same, and I would gladly sign.

The petition is free by the way. I just signed it without paying a penny - the payment is optional as you can opt to share the petition, and even this step can be skipped if you would prefer not to.

Great post by the way. Very balanced in amongst a thread full of salt and partisanship.

[RvR]

In my opinion I think its better that there was a crazy and annoying long dev cycle with an imperfect game than if there were many delightfully cordial updates but they gave up and issued refunds the next day as soon as the finances fell apart. Maybe you need a madman like Fonzie to so stubbornly force the game into reality, and I kinda expect guys like that to be maladaptive when it comes to things like being aware of the perceptions of others and responding appropriately.

[JPEC83]

In the end, I hope the paypal account releases the funds. Funds to Fonzie means he can start to recover. I don't see why people would want somebody to fail, especially when there is obvious effort to try to reconcile promises in the end. If funds are released individuals who requested refunds will likely be taken care of. The tide raises all ships. If you don't like Fonzie's business practices don't put money into anything he puts out (ever again for many). It's that simple. You don't even need to be looking at this thread or any others with a related subject.

I don't think anybody wants him to fail. It was his own behaviour led to the PayPal being locked in the first place. He barely communicated and went to the point of shutting down his entire site. If you were PayPal, would you consider this normal behaviour for a legitimate business? I have an interest in him getting it unlocked (since I am one of the many still waiting for a refund), but I'm not going to pretend that PayPal were wrong to be suspicious enough to freeze the funds. This is coming from someone who hates PayPal too. I don't hate WM.

[Pyron]

All the mistakes made have already been discussed, I think that there is not much to say about this. In Fonzie's mind, he did as he should and we all agreed that it was wrong.

In the end, he delivered the product. Many were impatient that they received their copies before others, but now even in Brazil people are receiving their games, so soon everyone who bought at the time will be able to have their copy and hands.

On the other hand, I think the position of many new consumers is unfair, there are people who bought the game now after it was released and are already denouncing WM on Paypal or asking for refunds, there is a series of negative things happening after the game was released that it is not justified for me.

Particularly speaking, I don't want a company like WM to close, which seems inevitable due to the way things are going. The problem with Paypal when searching the internet a little bit I saw several companies with similar problems, but it is difficult to defend one side, I do not know the policies involved and if PayPal is really protecting its customers or if for some time now it has been acting questionable way. The shopping sites that used PayPal as the main form of payment nowadays no longer offer it as an option.

Again, it is strange to defend someone here, because even with all these problems that passed when WM reopened the sales of the game after the launch they only offered a form of payment that was exactly Paypal. What love relationship is this that you live criticizing the other for stealing from you and continue with him?

Fonzie is so confused in his statements and actions that it is difficult to defend him under any circumstances.

But also, I don't understand why so many people continue to act negatively even after the game launched.

[NeoVamp]

Just throwing my 2 cents in. The guy sent me what I paid for.

You paid for a mediocre brawler with gameplay worse than Double Dragon? cuz I paid for the SOR2 KILLERRRRRRRRR!! but never received it.

[Nano Babe]

Fonzie, thank you very much for making Paprium happen.

No doubt you ran into serious troubles but you found a way to start shipping a finished and beautiful game to your customers.

This has become an unimaginable turn around. Indie games that disappear never come back... until now. Incredible!

I've signed the petition:

https://www.change.org/p/paypal-payp...e-game-paprium

And I've put in to crowd fund the Dolphin game.

Merci!

100% agree the guy could have just run away with the money would have been easier but he did deliver the game I'm sorry show me another programmer with the talent to deliver a game as good as paprium

[nieds16]

The petition is free by the way. I just signed it without paying a penny - the payment is optional as you can opt to share the petition, and even this step can be skipped if you would prefer not to.

Great post by the way. Very balanced in amongst a thread full of salt and partisanship.

Good to know. I did the signature part and it acted like I did step 1 of 3 and you had to spend money for the signature to take. Weird. Thanks for the info.

[Nano Babe]

oh and the future of watermelon?! here's a fact the Real winner is anyone that is selling a copy of Paprium on EBAY £200+ Plus and the grand stick for £500+ that's money that Fonzie or watermelon won't see. obviously when you purchase an item the item is yours and you can do with it what you wish. times are hard at the moment but when I see the limited edition gold sticks and gold cartridges going for £1000 Plus not sure that's a Real Sega fan. if I was Fonzie ?? i'd sign every game I had left in the stockroom every grand stick and I'd sell 1 a month on eBay.

[XeroShinobi]

At the end of the day, Fonzie delivered what I paid for. It took way too goddamn long, but considering that fan-backed projects can end up a lot worse than late, I'm not going to remain perpetually butthurt over a long delay alone.

The quality of the gameplay was always what I was worried about. I knew Paprium had no hope in hell of ever being in the same galaxy as Streets of Rage 2, so my expectations were tempered from the outset.

If the game were being announced for the first time today and available for purchase today, knowing what I know about how it plays now, I would buy it for the price I paid back in 2017. It's a novelty. The music is great, and it pulls some neat stuff off on a technical level. Is it a beat-em-up I'm really going to sink my teeth into? No. I'd sooner revisit Scott Pilgrim vs The World via the re-release it's receiving.

[nieds16]

I don't think anybody wants him to fail. It was his own behaviour led to the PayPal being locked in the first place. He barely communicated and went to the point of shutting down his entire site. If you were PayPal, would you consider this normal behaviour for a legitimate business? I have an interest in him getting it unlocked (since I am one of the many still waiting for a refund), but I'm not going to pretend that PayPal were wrong to be suspicious enough to freeze the funds. This is coming from someone who hates PayPal too. I don't hate WM.

Not everybody wants to see Fonzie fail, but I would argue that there are people intentionally putting road blocks in front of him, or trying to. 30 or 40 pages ago somebody was very forthcoming about reporting Fonzie to Sega for use of intellectual property. While I was certainly annoyed because this could derail my opportunity to get my games and stick I now have my stuff so the selfish aspect of my anger is gone. I still see no reason why somebody would do that. I found the move beyond dumb for Fonzie to do in the first place, but if people are going to be copyright infringement police and that is the true intent they shoot in all directions and there are easily thousands of targets out there. Picking a single target, though I can't say I know this person isn't doing this often, shows mal-intent. My offer to point out targets to prove this person is trying to police all as I could go to ebay and make a list of 50 in minutes of blatant piracy or entire works in minutes was met with no valor.

As for the PayPal shut down, I would agree it is probably his fault for the shut down but not for the reason others think. I think the lack of attention paid to communication and no formal refund process is what got him. As an original investor I didn't buy a game; I bought gems (a made up currency with spending power towards a final product if it ever materialized). I view that currency kind of like buying a gift card to a restaurant. I can now only use that money for a specific restaurant for what they have on the menu. The gem system, to me, should have been full proof as long as you put in specific refund rules and time frame limitation on the purchase. We were buying a dream in the end. Those who pre-ordered in 2017 are another story completely and that would definitely warrant a PayPal shutdown. Now people have their stuff. Why not reopen the funds?

You paid for a mediocre brawler with gameplay worse than Double Dragon? cuz I paid for the SOR2 KILLERRRRRRRRR!! but never received it.

With the dream mentioned above, yes, I believe we all had high hopes this was a SOR killer. I guess time diluted my expectations as for the last 3 or so years I felt my money was surely to lead to nothing. Again, the greatest beat em up of the system? No. I do appreciate what it is more than seemingly others. Granted, I'm only a little over an hour into game play and have been avoiding jump kicks like the plague, but there is so much to look at and find with multiple paths to choose from. That's where the replayability comes in. As mentioned above your perception is you paid for a SOR killer. My perception is a paid for a made up currency. That made up currency finally had a product to purchase with it. That product purchased came with crazy good packaging (minus the cardboard case which along the way I always hated) and a large amount of content in the actual game. It's no coffee crisis which would have warranted complete and utter disappointment in my opinion. My currency, in the end, gave a good return on investment for content and resellability if I choose. I believe the rpg elements give the most value to the actual gameplay. I find that crazy as I am one in a seemingly tiny population that does not enjoy rpgs. Who knew.

I do really wish the mechanics were better. Hopefully all of this pans out where WM can stay open. I have a string of hopes that I feel rides on a tight wire to actually all come to fruition. 1. Hopefully WM can get the money to stay in operation. 2. The mega wire comes out and is used for updates to the game. 3. The AI is improved a bit, the move set damage is balanced, and the controls are tightened.

There is a lot of good here. As for your comment about gameplay being worse the double dragon, I would agree to disagree. For me personally what makes SOR so good is the tight controls and variety of attacks. Anything less than what SOR accomplished falls into a middle ground bucket. I see double dragon as being there too and far less ambitious than Paprium. Paprium has elements to keep me engaged. Double dragon did not for me. Completely a personal opinion.

Neovamp, you still have the funniest post of the thread about the 5 stages of Paprium grief! Still makes me laugh.

For the mods, sorry to be still talking about things other than gameplay. When the original thread was shut down that was the bitching about all aspects of project Y's conception. It didn't reopen so that spilled into other avenues. Will make some posts once I can really dig my teeth into the game, but keeping all of this compartmentalized into topics without creating a number of threads is a big ask. Will do my best.

[molasar]

I am happy that Paprium is not as boring game as SOR2 is.

[Joe Redifer]

Yeah Streets of Rage 2 sucks. That's why no one likes it.

[molasar]

Yeah Streets of Rage 2 sucks. That's why no one likes it.

It did not impress me and my buddies when it was released. That is why it makes me laugh when people state it is the best beat'em up ever.

[axel]

It did not impress me and my buddies when it was released. That is why it makes me laugh when people state it is the best beat'em up ever.

What were you playing back then that was better? Did you have a Neo Geo?

[molasar]

What were you playing back then that was better? Did you have a Neo Geo?

Super Double Dragon. Even Golden Axe II provided me more fun until I got an Asian GAIII.

And I have never liked any Neo Geo beat'em ups.