What are 10 Things You Would Like to Change about the Genesis?

[Rusty Venture]

You just can't handle our jawusumness responces!!!

[parallaxscroll]

So...you're saying you didn't want the system to be affordable, right?

Not true. You misunderstand.

System 16 is already very affordable by 1988. It was made in 1986 as a mid-range arcade board. It's not even state-of-the-art in 1986. Whereas Sega's multi CPU Super-Scaler boards are.

A System16 board is lower-spec than than a Neo-Geo MVS/AES. Since this topic is about what we'd like to have changed about the Genesis, this is what I'd want. A mass produced System16 board. It could still be achieved for $200. The question about cost is really about the size of the ROM cartridges. Instead of 4-8 megabit games, could 16-32 megabit games be affordable in the 1988-1990 timeframe ?

[tomaitheous]

Not true. You misunderstand.

System 16 is already very affordable by 1988. It was made in 1986 as a mid-range arcade board. It's not even state-of-the-art in 1986. Whereas Sega's multi CPU Super-Scaler boards are.

A System16 board is lower-spec than than a Neo-Geo MVS/AES. Since this topic is about what we'd like to have changed about the Genesis, this is what I'd want. A mass produced System16 board. It could still be achieved for $200. The question about cost is really about the size of the ROM cartridges. Instead of 4-8 megabit games, could 16-32 megabit games be affordable in the 1988-1990 timeframe ?

In all honesty, I think if that was the case then Sega *would* have done that. I'm even sure the System16 board cost alone was above $200.

Remove the scaling/rotation, strip down the palette to 4096 colors (because that still fits into the 16bit palette entry and the RGB DAC would be lower cost), keep the ram at 64k and vram at 64k and the CPU at 8mhz (8mhz CPUs were cheaper than the 12mhz and 16mhz options - if you're gonna go with 10mhz might as well make it 12mhz since it would be the same rated chip), give sprites its own 4 palettes, each BG layer has its own 4 palettes, and window has its own 4 palettes - then it would be more reasonable.

[17daysolderthannes]

Well DUH. Of course that is what we did. Its all we could do or go out pay the $20 for the rf box which sucked when you where an 14 year old kid with no job. Just another case of companies cheaping out. Composite video was not exactly standard issue at the time.

but if you think about it, things like that helped MAKE it the standard so we can all enjoy quality picture inputs instead of that POS fuzzy RF crap.

[parallaxscroll]

In all honesty, I think if that was the case then Sega *would* have done that. I'm even sure the System16 board cost alone was above $200.

Remove the scaling/rotation, strip down the palette to 4096 colors (because that still fits into the 16bit palette entry and the RGB DAC would be lower cost), keep the ram at 64k and vram at 64k and the CPU at 8mhz (8mhz CPUs were cheaper than the 12mhz and 16mhz options - if you're gonna go with 10mhz might as well make it 12mhz since it would be the same rated chip), give sprites its own 4 palettes, each BG layer has its own 4 palettes, and window has its own 4 palettes - then it would be more reasonable.

Maybe.

Yet the difference between what you are saying, which is basicly something inbetween the Genesis and the System16, it might've been better just to go with a cost-reduced System16 with the exact same capability/spec, instead of developing a new machine. Look at it this way, the NEO-GEO home cartridge console could be bought for $399 in 1990 with one controller and no game. It was roughly 3x more powerful than System16 (380 sprites vs 128 sprites) and at least 5x Genesis. If SNK could offer such a best of a console at a modestly high price, then Sega could've offered a System16 based console in 1988/1989. It's basicly the same idea that Sony & Namco used with the PS1/ System11, and that Sega themselves later used with the Dreamcast/NAOMI.

I'd go one step further and say that Sega should've made the SegaCD more powerful, instead of low-end scaling & rotation, give it highend stuff like the Y-Board that powered Galaxy Force II, Power Drift and G-Loc. More sprites, backgrounds, effects, etc. This would totally eliminate the need for a 32X. Sega could have two 16-bit formats (Genesis, SegaCD) instead of the 4 Genesis-based formats that Sega had (Genesis, SegaCD, 32X, 32X CD).

The SegaCD is ground for highend 16-bit arcade games and lots of huge and long RPGs with great depth (Phantasy Star V, Lunar 3, Ys IV, etc) instead of FMV games.

The Genesis and SegaCD both get strong support until 1996, then Sega introduces a Saturn capable of strong 3D that's well designed (with the help of Martin Marietta who did most of the work on MODEL 2 or Lockheed Martin who did MODEL 3.

Ah well, nobody is gonna realize that's one direction Sega could've gone in an attempt to keep from failing so badly after the success of Genesis during 1991-1994. It's all water under the bridge.

[Iron Lizard]

Well they could have least shoved svhs or component down our throats. I was never impressed with comosite. Shvs was the first time i went "WOW". It would have been nice if they figured out a way so we wouldn't need to use all these damn av boxes. As much as I hate the old rf box you could have a few and vcr plug in never have to worry about av switch boxes.

[Joe Redifer]

In all honesty, I think if that was the case then Sega *would* have done that.

You are making a bad assumption. Sega wouldn't do that because they were still using that board to make arcade games at the time. They didn't want the home market cutting in to their arcade sales which were extremely important to them, and if a home system could compete with many arcade games on a 1:1 ratio, they'd be screwed, or at least that's what they would think. I don't think the System-16b would need to cost the consumer more than $250 at the time.

Anyway, we're nitpicking. If every time someone posts what they wish the Genesis would have been like someone else comes in sobbing and whining about how that wouldn't be realistic and would cost to much, then there really isn't any point to this thread whatsoever. It is a fantasy thread. Please stop trying to be realistic about it because the Genesis will always be the Genesis no matter what anyone says or wishes.

[tomaitheous]

You are making a bad assumption. Sega wouldn't do that because they were still using that board to make arcade games at the time. They didn't want the home market cutting in to their arcade sales which were extremely important to them, and if a home system could compete with many arcade games on a 1:1 ratio, they'd be screwed, or at least that's what they would think. I don't think the System-16b would need to cost the consumer more than $250 at the time.

That's possible, but then again the designer of the Megadrive (whatever his name was) in an interview stated that he wanted the system to replicate what was in their arcade line for the home console as much as possible. But we outsiders will never know the real truth of what they were planning or what foresight they had. Anyway, those additional specs sound cheap and easy on paper now a days, but there's a lot of hidden cost not to mention this was in 1987(released in 88) in relation to parts/prices/custom design/fabrication. It'd be nice if someone could find out the build cost of the system16b for 1988. I really expect it would be more than $250 just in cost, considering the relative comparison of similar hardware for that year.

[Joe Redifer]

in an interview stated that he wanted the system to replicate what was in their arcade line for the home console as much as possible.

I'm sure he did. I'm also sure he was restricted to what management told him to do... PC Engine had 512 colors, no need to go beyond that as it looks pretty, etc etc etc. And he probably had to do all that with what Sega management told him to use. I don't think they were selling the console for a loss at the start. Anyway, they considered the arcade and home markets as competition back then, and they were players in both fields.

[Zebbe]

There is no need to change the MD HW specs: they are good as they are. Here are my stupid wishes:

1. 8-button controller at launch (two shoulder buttons).
2. Same name, Mega Drive, in all regions.
3. Only black grid design or blue bubbles design on boxes.. not both!
4. No 32X - longer support with HW pushing titles for MD instead.
5. Regionfree.
6. 320x240 gameplay resolution @ 60 Hz on all units.
7. No baseball, basketball, football, wrestling or golf games.

That is all I can think of... The MD is too good, I can't come up with 10 things to change about it.

[17daysolderthannes]

Anyway, they considered the arcade and home markets as competition back then, and they were players in both fields.

that's true, Dreamcast and onward basically killed off arcades forever. Whats the point of going to an arcade when you can play the exact same thing at home? Granted arcades will always offer that extra interface like steering wheel setups or special controllers like the skateboard of Top Skater, but as far as graphics go, theres little reason to go to an arcade anymore. Kind of sad too, arcades used to really be a special treat to see games in their most uncompromised form.

[parallaxscroll]

You are making a bad assumption. Sega wouldn't do that because they were still using that board to make arcade games at the time. They didn't want the home market cutting in to their arcade sales which were extremely important to them, and if a home system could compete with many arcade games on a 1:1 ratio, they'd be screwed, or at least that's what they would think. I don't think the System-16b would need to cost the consumer more than $250 at the time.

Anyway, we're nitpicking. If every time someone posts what they wish the Genesis would have been like someone else comes in sobbing and whining about how that wouldn't be realistic and would cost to much, then there really isn't any point to this thread whatsoever. It is a fantasy thread. Please stop trying to be realistic about it because the Genesis will always be the Genesis no matter what anyone says or wishes.

Good post, I agree.

[TmEE]

6. 320x240 gameplay resolution @ 60 Hz on all units.

I think I've figured out why there 320x240 doesn't work in 60Hz. Its the native res of 60Hz to say so and that would leave no fast DMA room which can result in pretty poor gameplay in action games, so they did 224 to have 16 lines worth of some fast DMA time. In 50Hz you have LOT more DMA time, it doesn't matter if its 240 or 224, its still way more than in 60Hz (thus all VDP intensive games (3D) run better in 50Hz)

[Joe Redifer]

320x240 works fine in 60Hz, it's just that the Genesis wasn't designed for that resolution. It was designed to leave all overscan blank to cheat and steal some processing time. Even 320 pixels wide leaves a border on both sides. For the Genesis not to have any borders in NTSC, it'd have to be 360x240.

[acdc]

nothing

cause tido or tmee modded it for me
and i got a bleu light it match my eyes perfectly

stereo sound
60 hertz switch
jap switches
bleu led

can play yu yu hakusho without using the game genie

everything i wisht for

thanks again tido