hope for the hedgehog

[Smii]

Sonic Adventure 2 is okay - I played it a lot when I had a GC (never owned / used a Dreamcast) but it's still not a Sonic game.
I'm certain that has been debated to death though (then dug up, propped up against a wall and debated some more) so I won't ramble on about it.

What I will say is that I believe Sonic Heroes to be worse than Shadow, perhaps because it's the first exposure I had to the kid-oriented, too-cutesy, overcomplicated (yet shallow and brainless) world that Sonic now inhabits, and which I have grown to loathe.

Shadow, however, is just that bit too ridiculous for me to hate.

(I'm not so troubled with the new Sonics btw, as aside from the DS I don't think I'll own a current-gen console for quite some time...)

[TmEE]

Sonic Adventure 2 is the peak of 3D Sonic games, there's no better 3D Sonic. (Best 2D Sonic is Sonic3 & Knuckles)

[Earthworm_Jim_Fan]

Sonic Adventure 2 is the peak of 3D Sonic games, there's no better 3D Sonic. (Best 2D Sonic is Sonic3 & Knuckles)

Agreed.

[Kogen]

Come on, guys. Do not be morons. SA2's gameplay aged very poorly, most of the stages sucked for Tails/Eggman/Knuckles/Rouge, the graphics tried to be realistic which made them age poorly too, and it is what started the downward trend that ruined Sonic for this decade.

A game that is less than 4/6ths good is not "the peak of 3D Sonic games". What you are thinking of is "Sonic Adventure International" on DC; a title released in 1999.

Despite the bullshite and how blind people are, this game does look better than any other 3D Sonic game since Sonic Adventure. They at least got some much needed concepts into it like nice environments(not great, however) that will not age like the crap in SA2, decent music so far that is not by Crush-40, and 2D gameplay. It is a start at truly "bringing Sonic back to his roots." But nothing more than a 'start', as this clearly is not the game that is going to fix Sonic.

Also not to get into other arguements, but most people view Sonic 2 as the best Sonic game. Critics, long-time fans, and even the president of SEGA at the time according to an interview here. After that, it is generally Sonic CD. While Sonic 3/K is easily one of the greatest platformers ever made, it is not considered "the best" by the majority.

[Mister X]

The majority have no taste. S3&K is the very pinnacle of platforming fun, with an insane variety in level themes and design, amazing music and animation, and almost nothing in the way of tired video game tropes. It is therefore the finest Sonic game, hands down. Sonic Adventure... well, it started down the path that leads to Sonic Will Never Be Done Properly in 3D.

But hey, there hasn't been a Mario game since Mario 3 that didn't devolve into a mess of bottomless pit platform jumping with a crap camera that did a better job of killing you than the enemies.

So hooray for neither winning?

[Kogen]

Sonic Adventure was trying to be an actual Sonic game though, and at the same time show off the DC's advanced hardware. It does not take much knowledge of the series to know that SA2 is far from what Sonic used to be in the 90s. It is like an entirely different series with the same characters almost.

Sonic Adventure easily seemed like it was part of the series that started on Genesis. That is the problme with Unleashed, as it does not seem this way. It has some of the features like I already mentioned, but not enough. Therefore it is only a "start" in the right direction, which is an improvement. But considering the resources SEGA has in money and staff, I do not view it as a good enough attempt from what was shown so far.

I am not sure what Mario has to do with this. I never played much of the 3D games as they were slow and boring.

[Rusty Venture]

I wanna bitchslap everyone in Japan who thought "Eggman" was a cool name.

Just one big collective bitchslap.

And those at SOA who decided to change it to "Eggman" need a good kick in the genitalia.

[Earthworm_Jim_Fan]

Come on, guys. Do not be morons. SA2's gameplay aged very poorly, most of the stages sucked for Tails/Eggman/Knuckles/Rouge, the graphics tried to be realistic which made them age poorly too, and it is what started the downward trend that ruined Sonic for this decade.

A game that is less than 4/6ths good is not "the peak of 3D Sonic games". What you are thinking of is "Sonic Adventure International" on DC; a title released in 1999.

Despite the bullshite and how blind people are, this game does look better than any other 3D Sonic game since Sonic Adventure. They at least got some much needed concepts into it like nice environments(not great, however) that will not age like the crap in SA2, decent music so far that is not by Crush-40, and 2D gameplay. It is a start at truly "bringing Sonic back to his roots." But nothing more than a 'start', as this clearly is not the game that is going to fix Sonic.

I've always loved Sonic Adventure 2. It was a nice change from the "Hold right/up and jump." Which get's very boring after a while.

I loved all the diferent types of levels, and never hated any of them. I will never understand what people hate about SA2, it was a truly awesome and epic game.

Sonic Adventure is probably one of the most disapointing Sonic games I've ever played. I can't tell you how many times I fell through the floors in that game and don't get me started on the voice acting. It was a good game, but it just feels so "old". Kinda like how Crash Bandicoot 1 feels.

Also, "nice environments" dosen't make a game good, it's gamplay dose. Do I need to mention Big's fishing levels?

But due note I did like Sonic Adventure, it's just slow and boring, but at lwast the glitches were fun(Tails in Emerald Coast).

[Kogen]

I wanna bitchslap everyone in Japan who thought "Eggman" was a cool name.

Just one big collective bitchslap.

And those at SOA who decided to change it to "Eggman" need a good kick in the genitalia.

Do a dual bitchslap from each direction. They deserve more than just one. This name is the only fault I see in that character who avoided the lameness the rest got lately.

Earthworm Jim Fan:

What games were you playing? You seem to be describing Sonic Rush/Unleashed right now, not 90s Sonic games.

I do not want to get into a discussion of SA2 here too much, but I personally think they took the treasure finding and shooting too far. It was fine when just Gamma and Knuckles did this, but making this 4/6ths of the game is too much. I also liked the treasure hunting in SA1 better due to the better radar and more focused levels.

Tails should not have been a shooter and Rouge should not have been in it, then it would have been acceptable(with Knuckles levels/gameplay like SA1).

I never fell through a floor once in Sonic Adventure on DC; however I did on DX. I hope you are not playing the first Japanese release of the game, as they is very buggy; I can only assume you are playing these faulty versions of the game. Also the voice acting is no worse than it was in SA2.

Nice environments do make a good game. If not, we would have Atari 2600 graphics right now. You have to view it from both a technical and stylish viewpoint. Sonic was never about high realism and that is what SA2 did. High realism gets ugly as graphics advance, while nice style is always nice(Sonic 1, for example). Unleashed seems to be a mix of both of these, which is why I think it will still look nice in 5 years while SA2 will only continue to look worse.

Also Sonic Adventure is not slow all the time, however it is at parts. This is called a platformer. All the previous Sonic titles are like this. So maybe you just dislike the series and the genre too much to enjoy it like everyone else? SA2 is mindlessly running forward always when playing Sonic/Shadow, and this is what Unleashed is still doing, which ruins the game and ignores what the series is about from the start.

[Earthworm_Jim_Fan]

When I said slow, I ment slow downs, like when the game is loading those "action stages". I've always liked the old Sonic games, but I was disapointed with Sonic Adventure. Now, just calm down, its just my opinion. Lets not start a flame war.

[Mr Smith]

I have been reading many lies in this thread which claim Sonic Adventure 2 is the best 3D Sonic game. For any lurkers/government agencies/aliens that regularly monitor Sega-16 for knowledge, there is no truth in these wild and dangerous claims. Sonic Adventure, although by no means awesome, is the pinnacle of 3D hedgehog game play.

[TmEE]

Sonic Adventure 1 sucks except for the music and some stages. SA1 does not show off what DC can do with its 30fps and a bit bugged gameplay. SA2 plays great, looks great for the most part, sounds great for the most part, and is really pushing DC towards the never reached limits. If SA2 would suck it wouldn't be my most played DC game and I would have never ever thought of getting my hands on the Sonic Adventure 2 Birthday Pack

[Kogen]

When I said slow, I ment slow downs, like when the game is loading those "action stages". I've always liked the old Sonic games, but I was disapointed with Sonic Adventure. Now, just calm down, its just my opinion. Lets not start a flame war.

What? Stop trying to imply to people that I insulted you.

Also TmEE, Sonic Adventure was released in 1998. SA2 was released in 2001. Naka even said the DC's development was based on what they needed for SA. The game was rushed and unfinished, it should have been 60fps.

[sonicwatcher6969]

Sonic 3&K is the best 2D Sonic with Sonic 2, CD and the advance trilogy as a whole coming behind, i like all the 3d ones i have just as much as each other (except riders).

The worst Sonic was Sonic Jam (Tiger Gamme.com), Sonic Labyrinth and Tails Sky Patrol!

I think we can all agree to that.

[Kogen]

The Advance trilogy with Sonic 2 and CD? No... They are alright, but no where close to the same quality. And to leave out the first game is foolish.

The list of bad Sonic games goes beyond what you listed, too. It is much more than three games. Just to throw some more in there: Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic 3D Blast, G Sonic.

So nope, we can not all agree on that!