Microsoft VS Apple discussion cont.

[snume]

I've hopefully moved the discussion here to prevent more off-topic banter in the previous thread.

Just a question for you, not baiting here, because I only have access to an Apple at my Brother in laws house, I don't own one and I don't have access to usage stastistics.

When you run XP on your mac, does it crash on you? I only ask because I believe that most of the problems with windows, all versions, is the sheer volume of different hardware devices and software programs it has to be compatible with. MS isn't responsible for most of the drivers, they are written by the individual hardware manufacturers. They also don't write most of the software that people use on them. When a program is released for Windows, it's the software programmers who need to weed out the bugs. Granted, a windows update can break some software (I'm sure an Apple OS Update has done this as well) hopefully the software vendors receive help from the OS in minimizing and/or preventing these issues, but it does happen.

It's something Apple doesn't have to deal with because they strictly control the hardware. And software. If MS is guilty of anything, it's letting too many guests into the party, trying to gain market share by providing the most choice, while taking a risk on sacrificing quality for quantity. Apple throws an extremely exclusive, expensive party at Steve Jobs' and invites only a party of 6. MS throws a kegger. Don't forget your turtleneck and jeans.

Let's theorize a bit. If Apple takes over the home PC market, you will have a large number of PC hardware manufacturers (motherboards, video cards, sound cards, chipsets, ect) who have lost a ton of business. They will then do what they did with the burgeoning PC market in the early 80's and they will start making Mac clones. Apple will try to block them, but the sheer volume will overwhelm them and we will have a bunch of cheaper, Mac clones flooding the market and people will buy the cheaper machines.

Then we will all be using Mac OS X?? running on a bunch of different hardware, all of which are SUPPOSED to be made to a set of specifications set out by the OS maker (Apple) and which will have glitches and flaws and we'll be discussing how Apple should make it's OS work better on all the different hardware, blah blah blah.

We can have a civilized discussion about this and I believe we will all contribute to it in some way, but when you use blanket statements and they reek of fanboyism you detract from that civility. I respect your opinion, even if I don't agree.

I am thoroughly satisfied with my 4 Windows machines (2 XP 2 Vista) though I could use a speed boost with the 2 XP machines. I have had 1 incidence when a virus took me down and I had to reformat one of my machines. Not bad for 11 years of PC ownership. And I am one to do a lot of downloading, installing, testing, uninstalling, etc. Most typical PC users don't do much more than email, surfing and games.

I am a fan of Vista (though not it's memory requirements) and I love Media Center. I have had 1 blue screen event (I think it's called black screen with Vista) in the last year between both my Vista machines (1 refurbished desktop that I added RAM to and 1 stock laptop - both HP) not bad.

I am curious to what has happened to you in your use of Windows PC's that has made you so angry? Did it crash weekly? daily? hourly? Did Explorer display your web pages incorrectly? Did Outlook Express occasionally delete your emails and lose your contacts? Did Word constantly do a bad job of formatting your letters or resumes? Did Excel incorrectly add your financial information on your spreadsheets?

Now this is very possibl. Did you have game crashes? Were you forced to constantly upgrade your video cards or sound cards to play the latest games?

I think we should all report on our own personal experiences, and quit spouting what our friends, family, co-workers, second cousins and pen pals have told us about what their mother's friend's uncle's next-door-neighbour had happen to them with their computer.

It's funny how we only hear the negative stories. Pity people didn't post about how things are working great.

Oh wait.

I just did.

[Rusty Venture]

I decided to address this issue from the other thread in (this) more fitting topic

oh please, school computers crash no matter what because the faculty is always a bunch of asshats.

I like how it is the fault of someone else when a Mac crashes. This is similar to when Windows crashes it must always be Microsoft's fault.

The cause of the crashes, as I recall, was due to OS X before its 2nd or third revision.

[Psy]

I've hopefully moved the discussion here to prevent more off-topic banter in the previous thread.

Just a question for you, not baiting here, because I only have access to an Apple at my Brother in laws house, I don't own one and I don't have access to usage stastistics.

When you run XP on your mac, does it crash on you? I only ask because I believe that most of the problems with windows, all versions, is the sheer volume of different hardware devices and software programs it has to be compatible with. MS isn't responsible for most of the drivers, they are written by the individual hardware manufacturers. They also don't write most of the software that people use on them. When a program is released for Windows, it's the software programmers who need to weed out the bugs. Granted, a windows update can break some software (I'm sure an Apple OS Update has done this as well) hopefully the software vendors receive help from the OS in minimizing and/or preventing these issues, but it does happen.

It's something Apple doesn't have to deal with because they strictly control the hardware. And software. If MS is guilty of anything, it's letting too many guests into the party, trying to gain market share by providing the most choice, while taking a risk on sacrificing quality for quantity. Apple throws an extremely exclusive, expensive party at Steve Jobs' and invites only a party of 6. MS throws a kegger. Don't forget your turtleneck and jeans.

Let's theorize a bit. If Apple takes over the home PC market, you will have a large number of PC hardware manufacturers (motherboards, video cards, sound cards, chipsets, ect) who have lost a ton of business. They will then do what they did with the burgeoning PC market in the early 80's and they will start making Mac clones. Apple will try to block them, but the sheer volume will overwhelm them and we will have a bunch of cheaper, Mac clones flooding the market and people will buy the cheaper machines.

Then we will all be using Mac OS X?? running on a bunch of different hardware, all of which are SUPPOSED to be made to a set of specifications set out by the OS maker (Apple) and which will have glitches and flaws and we'll be discussing how Apple should make it's OS work better on all the different hardware, blah blah blah.

*nix supports far more hardware then Windows yet is far more stable.

I am curious to what has happened to you in your use of Windows PC's that has made you so angry? Did it crash weekly? daily? hourly? Did Explorer display your web pages incorrectly? Did Outlook Express occasionally delete your emails and lose your contacts? Did Word constantly do a bad job of formatting your letters or resumes? Did Excel incorrectly add your financial information on your spreadsheets?

The fact it is a pain in the pass to install Windows as a second OS. Also the fact I can run Windows within Linux far more reliability then running Windows on its own.

Now this is very possibl. Did you have game crashes? Were you forced to constantly upgrade your video cards or sound cards to play the latest games?

My PC is not setup for gaming, this is because there is currently no real gaming OS, one were you can boot the system and play a game in roughly the same time as it takes to do so on a game console.

[j_factor]

After the recent Apple conference, Mac fans were elated. One person was quoted as saying "I've had a Macintosh now for a total of 35 days, and I'm really excited to be part of the Mac community." Part of the Mac community? It's a computer, not a social movement, asshole! I feel like Apple is not just selling computers, they're selling a way of life, and I'm not ready to be that heavily invested in a product.

[Joe Redifer]

When you run XP on your mac, does it crash on you?

Nope, never.

a windows update can break some software (I'm sure an Apple OS Update has done this as well)

Most Apple updates lately cause more harm than good. Leopard (the newest OS) is pretty bad.

If Apple takes over the home PC market...

Never happen.

I am thoroughly satisfied with my 4 Windows machines

FOUR??? Is one for normal usage and the other three strictly for porn storage?

I am curious to what has happened to you in your use of Windows PC's that has made you so angry?

Who is angry? Are people who chose to drive an Acura angry at Dodge? We prefer what we prefer. All the apps you listed have Mac versions and they function just as well (meaning "average") on both platforms.

[snume]

Well, Joe, I don't recall you being the person who was being referenced in my post, and if you read 17days posts, he sure seemed angry. Though Psy also has taken it as a question to him and answered it. Thank you Psy. I'll address you lower in this post.

I was just listing MS software - hoping for a response as to why he is so angry at MS.

Maybe he resents the money he had to spend on an MS operating system on a PC he bought in the past. Maybe not. I was just giving out suggestions as too what may have set him off.

Well, the other 3 aren't ENTIRELY for porn storage, I have a couple of external hard drives for that. One PC (the oldest - 11 yrs old w/ MB/CPU/RAM upgrade in 01) is my wife/daughter's for their games and Fisher Price Creative Art Studio. One is our Media Center PC (HP Vista Media Center new in 07 for $400 including 19" LCD monitor - added 1GB Ram $40), one is a laptop (HP Pavilion 15" w/ Vista - $600 new March 08) which my wife has with her in the hospital now. She watches the TV shows and movies I record for her here and I take them to her on the portable HDD (we are currently 6 hours apart) and the 4th is my games/internet machine (made from $300 worth of parts in 06). There is some redundancy but they all serve their purposes.

Psy, when you refer to installing windows as a second OS, what is your setup. As a second Os with another Windows OS your primary? or with Mac OS as your primary? Linux? Just would like to know as it helps with the discussion.

by *nix are you referring to Unix? as well as Linux? and all flavours? Again, more clarity is needed to continue the discussion. I don't want to base my answer on a false assumption.

As far as gaming on a PC, I have taken to doing most of my gaming on the 360. Except for RTS games like C&C. I prefer the mouse for these. Though, in the recent past, I have not had to reboot to change games on my PC, I only had to launch the game, though the initial startup and load times could be long and that was unpleasant.

[Rusty Venture]

FOUR??? Is one for normal usage and the other three strictly for porn storage?

I was also surprised at such a small # of computers used for porn storage.

[17daysolderthannes]

I decided to address this issue from the other thread in (this) more fitting topic



I like how it is the fault of someone else when a Mac crashes. This is similar to when Windows crashes it must always be Microsoft's fault.

The cause of the crashes, as I recall, was due to OS X before its 2nd or third revision.

oh, well as if Vista is a miraculous operating system with no problems whatsoever

I guarantee you the original Mac OS X was still 1,000X better than Vista is now.

[17daysolderthannes]

When you run XP on your mac, does it crash on you? I only ask because I believe that most of the problems with windows, all versions, is the sheer volume of different hardware devices and software programs it has to be compatible with. MS isn't responsible for most of the drivers, they are written by the individual hardware manufacturers. They also don't write most of the software that people use on them. When a program is released for Windows, it's the software programmers who need to weed out the bugs. Granted, a windows update can break some software (I'm sure an Apple OS Update has done this as well) hopefully the software vendors receive help from the OS in minimizing and/or preventing these issues, but it does happen.

It's something Apple doesn't have to deal with because they strictly control the hardware. And software. If MS is guilty of anything, it's letting too many guests into the party, trying to gain market share by providing the most choice, while taking a risk on sacrificing quality for quantity. Apple throws an extremely exclusive, expensive party at Steve Jobs' and invites only a party of 6. MS throws a kegger. Don't forget your turtleneck and jeans.

Well, for starters, Mac OS X never crashes, ever, its base code prevents it. As for XP, I use it almost exclusively for emulation, so its unlikely I'll experience a crash when the only programs I use are 3 video game emulators. Odds are I'll never add a sufficient amount of software to XP for it to become a candidate for software conflicts.

You can argue Windows made computers accessible to more people, but at the same time that's like saying you did a good job for selling inexpensive cars with wheels that fall off while you're driving. Did you really help anybody? not much.

Let's theorize a bit. If Apple takes over the home PC market, you will have a large number of PC hardware manufacturers (motherboards, video cards, sound cards, chipsets, ect) who have lost a ton of business. They will then do what they did with the burgeoning PC market in the early 80's and they will start making Mac clones. Apple will try to block them, but the sheer volume will overwhelm them and we will have a bunch of cheaper, Mac clones flooding the market and people will buy the cheaper machines.

Then we will all be using Mac OS X?? running on a bunch of different hardware, all of which are SUPPOSED to be made to a set of specifications set out by the OS maker (Apple) and which will have glitches and flaws and we'll be discussing how Apple should make it's OS work better on all the different hardware, blah blah blah.

No, again, can't happen. There once was a time when there WERE mac clones and Steve Jobs *I think it was him* put a stop to it, most likely because of quality control reasons. OS X will always be exclusive to Apples, at least in terms of official support since from what I understand it is possible to put OS X on some other computers through the use of several hacks.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be an alternative, particularly a lower cost alternative to Macs (since they really don't come cheap), but there should be one alot f'n better than what Microsoft makes. Hell, look at my phone, its a Nokia N-Gage QD, a series 60 smartphone. I can get all kinds of software for it from accounting to game emulation, and I've never had a crash of any kind. If Microsoft could make something half as good as what Nokia, A PHONE MANUFACTURER, came up with, it might actually be worth a damn.

I have had 1 incidence when a virus took me down and I had to reformat one of my machines.

pretty much impossible on a Mac, I've never heard of anyone getting a virus on a Mac, ever. For 2 reasons: 1) the primary computer, especially of new computer users, is Windows based, so who are you gonna make the virus for? the OS that the most people will be using and 2) it is EXTREMELY difficult to even make a virus for OS X because it requires permission for every install. The only way you could get a virus is if you basically gave it permission to install itself.

I am curious to what has happened to you in your use of Windows PC's that has made you so angry? Did it crash weekly? daily? hourly? Did Explorer display your web pages incorrectly? Did Outlook Express occasionally delete your emails and lose your contacts? Did Word constantly do a bad job of formatting your letters or resumes? Did Excel incorrectly add your financial information on your spreadsheets?

Now this is very possibl. Did you have game crashes? Were you forced to constantly upgrade your video cards or sound cards to play the latest games?

My dislike of Windows and Microsoft doesn't come from particular overbearing problems like the ones you mentioned, but rather a number of other, smaller problems that are just unnecessary to deal with when a superior OS like OS X exists. I can give one example right now, my dad more or less gave me his Dell laptop that he didn't need anymore (he taught at University of Phoenix for a while and needed a PC for their software, he doesn't teach there anymore because it almost drove him insane with the level of R-tards that went there). Every time you boot it up, it takes like (no joke) 30 minutes to stop loading one way or another. Why? I don't know, and thats the thing, there is no telling WTF it is doing. I've tried numerous times to stop auto updates and the like, all to no avail. I was going to reinstall the OS from the boot disc, to which my dad said "no, don't do that, it'll take you weeks to get everything updated right again." On the other hand, the only thing that ever slowed down my Macs was a relatively full and fragmented hard drive, which, of course will slow down any computer. Keep in mind, that Dell laptop was barely used for anything besides his University of Phoenix teaching, the only other stuff on there were some emulators I put on it and some ROMs.

Another case of Windows sucking is a recent case where me and my group members were about to make a Power Point for a presentation. One girl brought her laptop (relatively new) and when she opened up Power Point it literally typed one character every 5 seconds. I was like "what is wrong with your computer?" "oh, Power Point always runs like this." On the other hand, other programs like Internet Explorer ran just fine.

Hell, even Power Point on my Mac has bullshit problems. You are SUPPOSED to be able to export presentations to quicktime, but I tried over and over again and no matter what I did I could not get it to export the presentation with animations. I tried making the animations on mouse click, on timer, etc. etc. and nothing worked. I got it to work fine on a previous version of Power Point on my previous iMac, but this one won't work. How can a piece of software designed to work on basically the exact computer I'm using have such a gaping hole in functionality? And its not like Microsoft Office is cheap either. Shit, GIMP, a free homebrew image editing program, works 900% better and problem free than anything in Microsoft Office.

As for Microsoft in general, the Microsoft wireless mouse I'm using right now cuts out its signal whenever it feels like it and sometimes, for no reason, the pointer will just jump around (i.e. bringing it across the screen and it will suddenly jump 1/8 inch in the direction you were moving for no reason). I've never had that problem with the real Apple mouse. Trust me, it gets very annoying when you're painstakingly photoshopping something. Its not an old mouse either, and it is miraculously clean, so neither one of those things is the cause of the problem. IIRC its always done this.

Microsoft is like a virus unto itself. Windows is fine when its freshly installed, but once its been there a while, its bound to start dramatically fucking everything up one way another. Every single Windows user I've ever known has had to reformat their computer at least once and when I would try to use their computer there would always be something simple that would cause an "illegal operation" or some bullshit.

If only Apple and Nokia would get together and make babies, the world would be a better place.

[17daysolderthannes]

After the recent Apple conference, Mac fans were elated. One person was quoted as saying "I've had a Macintosh now for a total of 35 days, and I'm really excited to be part of the Mac community." Part of the Mac community? It's a computer, not a social movement, asshole! I feel like Apple is not just selling computers, they're selling a way of life, and I'm not ready to be that heavily invested in a product.

so you're not part of the Genesis community? check and mate.

Just because some douche thinks he's joining a club doesn't mean a damn thing. Everyone that gets a driver's license is in the "drivers community." I'm sure plenty of Windows users consider themselves in the "Windows community." Granted, Mac users tend to be more involved in the hardware and software developments than an average PC user, but thats because probably a solid 2/3 of PC users use PCs because they weren't aware there is a *better* alternative, so they are just clueless all around.

[17daysolderthannes]

Most Apple updates lately cause more harm than good. Leopard (the newest OS) is pretty bad.

Its only bad if you're trying to run archaic software. I am sad that they dropped OS9 compatibility, but its not like Vista is even fully compatible with XP, so definitely no better there. Personally, I'm just thinking of buying an older mac to play OS 9 and older games.

[Mr Smith]

I couldn't be bothered to real this thread, but I hate iPods.

[Joe Redifer]

Well, for starters, Mac OS X never crashes, ever, its base code prevents it.

How about a Kernel Panic:


Or the ever-so-lovely spinning beach ball of death:

[Mac OS X updates are] only bad if you're trying to run archaic software.

Yeah, like Final Cut Pro, that piece of shit. Soooo ancient. Don't upgrade your Quicktime beyond 7.3.1 or you are asking for trouble with Final Cut Pro.

[Psy]

Psy, when you refer to installing windows as a second OS, what is your setup. As a second Os with another Windows OS your primary? or with Mac OS as your primary? Linux? Just would like to know as it helps with the discussion.

My point is if you already have another OSs on the HD installing Windows is a pain in the ass, I swapped the order of my hard drives to please Windows' installer then swapped them back and added Windows to my boot loader (that Windows would have over written if was on the same drive).

by *nix are you referring to Unix? as well as Linux? and all flavours? Again, more clarity is needed to continue the discussion. I don't want to base my answer on a false assumption.

Yes I am referring to Linux, BSD, Minix, Unix,ect

As far as gaming on a PC, I have taken to doing most of my gaming on the 360. Except for RTS games like C&C. I prefer the mouse for these. Though, in the recent past, I have not had to reboot to change games on my PC, I only had to launch the game, though the initial startup and load times could be long and that was unpleasant.

For a gaming PC I want something that I can turn on and get right to playing like the Amiga was (that I use for retro computer gaming), this way 10 years down the road I could just dust of the PC start it up and start playing my old games for it quickly. It also means one can drag their computer to their TV and quickly show people stuff of the computer (like cool games) without boring them with a long booting process.

[mick_aka]

It's a computer, not a social movement, asshole!

The same could be said to every single person here.