No excuse for Sonic on the Saturn...

[MrMatthews]

But isn't the sense of Speed one of the trademarks of a good Sonic-game?
The reason while I heavily disliked the isometric "Sonic 3D" on the Mega Drive was because it felt too slow for a Sonic-Game. In my eyes, it just wasn't Sonic.

Green Hill Zone and Springyard Zone (okay, and maybe a little bit of starlight) were the only zones that actually allowed sonic to run for extended periods of time and actually build up speed.

The remaining stages forced players to be more slow and deliberate.

I forgot exactly where I was going with this originally. I think what I was getting at is that the 3D games fail because of their "speedy" elements, but in truth they don't really need to incorporate speed so much to be true to the original games.

[jesus.arnold]

I think Sega were too busy working on making the Saturn a success in Japan at the time, they never seemed to realise that all the markets were different, Sonic was never as popular in Japan so they didn't seem to put anywhere near as much emphasis as they should've done, that was the first time a Sega console ever ended up being successful in it's homeland, but it failed badly everywhere else.

[retrospiel]

I think that's because of the bad management, bad advertising, high price, awful controllers, self-destructing cases, missing RPGs, general lack of localized Japanese games like Grandia, Thunderforce, Phantasy Star Collection, etc. pp.


I wonder why the hell 3D was so important ? Looking back, I realize that during the time Saturn was around, I played mostly 2D games. Sure, I was impressed with Virtua Fighter, Sega Rally, Panzer Dragoon and Quake, but most games I had were 2D.


Oh, and did I mention that I wish they'd have released Knuckles & Chaotix for Saturn and not for this goddamn 32X?

[Tanegashima]

I wish they hadn't released Knuckles Chaotix for anything.

[Benjamin]

I have decided though, that Elevator Action Returns is probably my favorite game on the entire system...

You have great taste.

Green Hill Zone and Springyard Zone (okay, and maybe a little bit of starlight) were the only zones that actually allowed sonic to run for extended periods of time and actually build up speed.

Starlight is like the fastest stage in the game, and Scrap Brain has some really fast moments, especially with spinning around the gears. Still, yeah, I think the modern concept of a Sonic game is too heavily built on speed. It turns what made Sonic special into just a mundane ability.

[Psy]

I think Sega should have made the mother of all 2D platforms out of a Saturn Sonic game. The aim should have been to make the Neo-Geo look like crap and push the Saturn 2D capabilities as far as they can go.

[Rusty Venture]

The problem with that is that during the Saturn era 2-D was "passe". People wanted something more/better/different than what they usually, had and a 2D Sonic on Saturn really would have been "more of what has already been".

It isn't like today where we've had a few 3D generations to make some go "wow 2D was really cool!".

[MrMatthews]

You have great taste.



Starlight is like the fastest stage in the game, and Scrap Brain has some really fast moments, especially with spinning around the gears. Still, yeah, I think the modern concept of a Sonic game is too heavily built on speed. It turns what made Sonic special into just a mundane ability.

Nah, Scrapbrain hated speed and momentum and wanted them both to die. That's why there were bottomless pits and traps every few feet.

Starlight Zone, I'll give you.

[j_factor]

The problem with that is that during the Saturn era 2-D was "passe". People wanted something more/better/different than what they usually, had and a 2D Sonic on Saturn really would have been "more of what has already been".

It isn't like today where we've had a few 3D generations to make some go "wow 2D was really cool!".

Indeed. This was true even when the Saturn was new -- Shinobi Legions, for example, did very poorly, whereas Bug! was one of the most popular games on the system.

[Tanegashima]

I think Sega should have made the mother of all 2D platforms out of a Saturn Sonic game. The aim should have been to make the Neo-Geo look like crap and push the Saturn 2D capabilities as far as they can go.

The Saturn's hardware far outclasses the Neo Geo's and at a much better price. The Saturn ports of SNK games are so sought after nowadays because they are as close toarcade perfect and come closest to the Neo Geo versions of said games. The Saturn SNK ports remain the only way to faithfully play SNK games without getting a Neo Geo. Even modern SNK ports are completely butchered (due to SNK's almost total ineptitude I might add. No company on the face of the earth is so adept at destroying itself and ruining ports of its own franchises, other than perhaps the modern incarnation of Sega...and atari--they were the biggest morons when it came to handling their own franchises).

The saturn versions of these games are missing some animations and have a tad more slowdown than their Neo Geo counterparts. But the cartridge based system has an advantage in speed when you can pack a shitload of RAM into a cartridge the size of a modern hard drive.

The Saturn versions of Metal Slug, King of Fighters etc. are about as arcade perfect as it gets. Problem is that most of these games stayed in the land of the rising sun and never made it here. The Saturn's ability to basically plug in 4mb of RAM into it made it a far far more powerful 2-D/arcade powerhouse than the playstation. It was a very capable home arcade system in many ways.

Problem was, in 1995-1998 most people didn't want to play arcade games at home, they wanted to play lame ass games like croc, mario 64, Bug (which I really can't stand...Rayman, Astal both look 100 times better than Bug or Croc).

one overriding childhood reason for owning a Saturn was having an arcade perfect version of Mortal Kombat II. Unfortunately (and no fault of the Sega Saturn or Sega) the 32-bit home ports of MK II (even on the PSx) sucked and sucks balls. The 16-bit home versions dominate that...bastards.

[old man]

I remember seeing all the awesome 2d games coming out for the Saturn in GameFan, and thinking to myself, "wow, I need to get me one of these things." Then they canceled it in favor of the Dreamcast. I don't think people stopped liking 2d games as much as developers stopped doing anything new with them. The hand full of slick 2d games coming out for the systems just didn't justify the $400+ price tag on the system. A lot of people like me were probably just waiting for it to hit the $200 mark, but by then sega of america was being run by idiots and abandoned the system right at the time it was becoming a "must buy". It didn't help that they seemed to shun all the quality japanese software coming out in japan either.
On a related note I remember being so disenfranchised when yoshi's island came out that I almost didn't buy it. Man, I'm so glad that I did now.

[Elusive]

But isn't the sense of Speed one of the trademarks of a good Sonic-game?
The reason while I heavily disliked the isometric "Sonic 3D" on the Mega Drive was because it felt too slow for a Sonic-Game. In my eyes, it just wasn't Sonic.

Not really. Labyrinth and Marble Zones disprove this!

To me, it's more about experience rather than SPEED SPEED MORE SPEED FULL SPEED AHEAD. Green Hill Zone-y first level, suitably mechy bosses, chequerboard landscapes, a hair metally theme, you know what I mean - it's the hallmarks of the series that make the series, not whether you can finish Act 1 in under 30 seconds.

[esb09]

Sonic 1 had slow zones, but Sonic 2 was pretty much speed, speed, speed.

[j_factor]

Sonic 1 had slow zones, but Sonic 2 was pretty much speed, speed, speed.

Yeah, and Sonic 2 is pretty much the definitive classic Sonic game for most people. It wasn't all full-speed ahead, but even the "slow" sections felt fast-paced. Except for Sky Chase Zone.

[Psy]

The problem with that is that during the Saturn era 2-D was "passe". People wanted something more/better/different than what they usually, had and a 2D Sonic on Saturn really would have been "more of what has already been".

It isn't like today where we've had a few 3D generations to make some go "wow 2D was really cool!".

The Donkey Kong Country 2 was released in late 1995 yet still sold well, so why couldn't Sega have generate as much hype around a 2D Sonic on the Saturn back in late 1995 and steal Donkey Kong Country 2's thunder?