My 360 just Red ringed

[Melf]

nHow can you say a system is the best system ever when the hardware is a steaming pile of shit? PS3 is better in every way, it just needs developers and consumers to see that. If PS3 had all the games the 360 had, no one would even be touching the 360 right now.

While I admit that the 360 is the worst hardware around, I prefer it greatly to the PS3 (and I own both). It seems that the best PS3 games are also on 360, and the Live's interface is much smoother and complete. That's probably why developers and consumers tend to prefer it to the PS3.

It's been two years already. If the PS3 has some miracle that makes it much better, maybe it's time Sony stops holding onto it for a rainy day.

[Rassilon]

Blu Ray is nowhere near as much of an upgrade to DVD as DVD was to VHS.

DVD had -

1 Much better picture detail and sound quality than VHS
2 Had a much more stable picture than VHS (no more rolling thank god)
2 Didn't need to be re-wound
3 you could choose what scene you wanted specifically
4 took up less shelf space
5 was more durable
6 much more space for extra features and such

Blu-Ray has -

1 Better Picture Detail and sound Quality than DVD
2 much more space available

Let me fix that for you:
Blu-ray has:
1. MUCH better picture and sound quality than DVD (BD has a bigger jump in PQ/SQ over DVD than DVD did over VHS).
2. Takes up less shelf space (the cases are slightly shorter and thinner)
3. more durable (Blu-ray's scratch resistant coating is VERY good. holds up a LOT better than DVDs).
4a. much more space for extra features, etc.
4b. more space for additional audio tracks/languages
4c. more space for multiple versions/cuts of a movie or more episodes of a TV series
5. more responsive menus
6. interactive features, games, online content (actually, i dont care about any of this, but it is a feature).


So ill say it again: blu-ray is a bigger improvement over DVD than DVD was over VHS.

While I admit that the 360 is the worst hardware around, I prefer it greatly to the PS3 (and I own both). It seems that the best PS3 games are also on 360, and the Live's interface is much smoother and complete. That's probably why developers and consumers tend to prefer it to the PS3.

It's been two years already. If the PS3 has some miracle that makes it much better, maybe it's time Sony stops holding onto it for a rainy day.

I completely disagree with this. Even if the 360 had perfect reliability (hah!), i still wouldnt pay money for one (and if i got it free, id sell it).

I had a 360, and i sold it. it sat around not being used, and costing me money for live, as the game library SUCKS.
Multi-platform games i buy on PS3, because its more reliable, better controller, and FREE online.
the 360 exclusives are almost entirely the same FPS/3rd person shooter crap OVER AND OVER (and if you really like those kind of games, they are better on the PC anyways).

to be frank, they both have a pretty poor game library (in fact, i think this entire generation of consoles sucks hard), but there are at least a FEW games worth playing, and few more coming in the future, for PS3.

[jesus.arnold]

Let me fix that for you:
Blu-ray has:
1. MUCH better picture and sound quality than DVD (BD has a bigger jump in PQ/SQ over DVD than DVD did over VHS).
2. Takes up less shelf space (the cases are slightly shorter and thinner)

Negligible difference, what is it like 1 or 2 CM shorter?

3. more durable (Blu-ray's scratch resistant coating is VERY good. holds up a LOT better than DVDs).

Negligible difference, if you look after a DVD then it'll last.

4a. much more space for extra features, etc.
4b. more space for additional audio tracks/languages
4c. more space for multiple versions/cuts of a movie or more episodes of a TV series

Way to draw out a point I already made, it has more space.

5. more responsive menus

I don't have a problem with this on DVD so i'll say negligible difference again

6. interactive features, games, online content (actually, i dont care about any of this, but it is a feature).

Isn't most of that the more space issue yet again? I know DVD's have crappy games and interactive features on them already as I own some with them on.

So ill say it again: blu-ray is a bigger improvement over DVD than DVD was over VHS.

You just posted nothing worthwhile that I didn't already say

I had a 360, and i sold it. it sat around not being used, and costing me money for live, as the game library SUCKS.
Multi-platform games i buy on PS3, because its more reliable, better controller, and FREE online.
the 360 exclusives are almost entirely the same FPS/3rd person shooter crap OVER AND OVER (and if you really like those kind of games, they are better on the PC anyways).

Yes i'm sure that the 10 odd good PS3 exclusives are better than the 30 odd 360 games not on the PS3 (and I use the word "good" loosely, I personally wouldn't count Heavenly Sword or Folklore as being particularly noteworthy but some PS3 owners seem to rave about them) Also Resistance and Resistance 2 would definately fall under your "same FPS crap over and over" bracket which would realistically leave you with around 6-7 really good exclusive games.

[MrMatthews]

A console is remembered for its games, not for the quality of its hardware.

Have you forgotten what an incredible POS the NES was? And most people still refer to it as one of the greatest systems of all time.

The games available for the 360 don't make it the greatest system ever, but the hardware problems by themselves absolutely don't make it the worst.

[Rassilon]

Negligible difference, what is it like 1 or 2 CM shorter?

yea, something like that. but if the point is valid in DVD vs VHS, its valid here.

Negligible difference, if you look after a DVD then it'll last.

no, its a significant difference. have kids? lend DVDs to friends? ever drop something on accident?
the blu-ray coating is really very good (i believe it was developed specifically for blu-ray). I get DVDs and blu-rays from netflix, and the DVDs are often scratched to hell (even the newest releases), but the blu-ray discs are still perfect.

Way to draw out a point I already made, it has more space.

and space is a much bigger deal than just one item on a list, as it opens up many capabilities that are worth considering, not just some vague "more space".

I don't have a problem with this on DVD so i'll say negligible difference again

so just because YOU dont notice or dont care about something makes it negligible?

Isn't most of that the more space issue yet again? I know DVD's have crappy games and interactive features on them already as I own some with them on.

no, this has more to do with the processing power and application support.

You just posted nothing worthwhile that I didn't already say

and you havent posted anything worthwhile in the entire discussion of blu-ray.

Yes i'm sure that the 10 odd good PS3 exclusives are better than the 30 odd 360 games not on the PS3 (and I use the word "good" loosely, I personally wouldn't count Heavenly Sword or Folklore as being particularly noteworthy but some PS3 owners seem to rave about them) Also Resistance and Resistance 2 would definately fall under your "same FPS crap over and over" bracket which would realistically leave you with around 6-7 really good exclusive games.

actually, i dont think the PS3 even has 6-7 REALLY good exclusives. but 360 doesnt even have 2 or 3.

so no, i dont count resistance. thought it was very mediocre and dull. same to gears of war and halo on the 360.

The (exclusive) games i play and am looking forward to on ps3 are Wipeout HD, gran turismo 5, Ryu ga gotoku: kenzan and part 3 ("yakuza" series in the US), valkyrie chronicles, disgaea 3, tekken 5 and 6, god of war 3.
so i guess thats more than 6-7, but a few arent out until next year.

I also play fighting games, and the PS3 is much better for these thanks to the MUCH better controller and wider selection of arcade sticks.

[InternalPrimate]

I completely disagree with this. Even if the 360 had perfect reliability (hah!), i still wouldnt pay money for one (and if i got it free, id sell it).

I had a 360, and i sold it. it sat around not being used, and costing me money for live, as the game library SUCKS.
Multi-platform games i buy on PS3, because its more reliable, better controller, and FREE online.
the 360 exclusives are almost entirely the same FPS/3rd person shooter crap OVER AND OVER (and if you really like those kind of games, they are better on the PC anyways).

to be frank, they both have a pretty poor game library (in fact, i think this entire generation of consoles sucks hard), but there are at least a FEW games worth playing, and few more coming in the future, for PS3.

I have to be honest, I agree with Melf. I own all three consoles, and the one that gets the least love is the PS3. Why would I buy a multi-console game for the PS3 over the 360? Better controller? Ha! Better online implementation? Obviously not. Better visuals? For some odd reason, not yet.

I hate my 360 with a passion. Every time I look at it, I want to throw it out the window for all the pain its caused me. But lets all be honest, the PS3 isn't even close to the 360 at the moment.

Oh, and I'd love to try whatever it is you're smoking when you say that Blu-ray is a bigger leap over DVD than DVD was over VHS.

[jesus.arnold]

yea, something like that. but if the point is valid in DVD vs VHS, its valid here.

No, in a comparable space you could probably fit double the amount of DVD's as opposed to VHS, thats not negligible that's extremely useful, Where Blu-ray over DVD is concerned you could maybe fit one extra row per 4 rows which is only a slight improvement and only noticible to people with extremely large collections

no, its a significant difference. have kids? lend DVDs to friends? ever drop something on accident?
the blu-ray coating is really very good (i believe it was developed specifically for blu-ray). I get DVDs and blu-rays from netflix, and the DVDs are often scratched to hell (even the newest releases), but the blu-ray discs are still perfect.

Kids have an unnatural talent at breaking just about anything, I'm sure they'll find a way to break Blu-ray's

and space is a much bigger deal than just one item on a list, as it opens up many capabilities that are worth considering, not just some vague "more space".

The only thing that interests me is that there won't be as many discs needed for TV shows,

where extra content is concerned I don't see that it'll change much from DVD, most companies will just lazily dump the same old trash that they usually do on there, I rarely bother watching "making of" documentaries as it is, the only time i'll bother is if I really like the film

so just because YOU dont notice or dont care about something makes it negligible?

I'm gonna' go out on a limb here and say that most people found waiting 2 minutes for a video to rewind was mildly annoying, and that many people wished that they didn't have to fast forward their film for a while to find a specific section they wanted to watch, I'd say that once in a while someone might've thought to themselves "boy I wish I didn't have to do this" I personally find it difficult to believe there are a lot of people who have been eagerly awaiting a time when they don't have to wait that extra 1/6 of a second on their menu screens.

actually, i dont think the PS3 even has 6-7 REALLY good exclusives. but 360 doesnt even have 2 or 3.

so no, i dont count resistance. thought it was very mediocre and dull. same to gears of war and halo on the 360.

The (exclusive) games i play and am looking forward to on ps3 are Wipeout HD, gran turismo 5, Ryu ga gotoku: kenzan and part 3 ("yakuza" series in the US), valkyrie chronicles, disgaea 3, tekken 5 and 6, god of war 3.
so i guess thats more than 6-7, but a few arent out until next year.

Are you sure you just haven't played that many games? I mean seriously I would at least count Uncharted, Little Big Planet, Metal Gear Solid 4, Warhawk and possibly Motorstorm 2 (so much better than the crappy original) as good games.

Also I have to say, for someone who says they don't like the same old generic reruns you have a hell of a lot of sequels on your want list

I also play fighting games, and the PS3 is much better for these thanks to the MUCH better controller and wider selection of arcade sticks.

Yeah fighting games are pretty much the only thing that crappy obsolete controller is good for.

[Rassilon]

Are you sure you just haven't played that many games? I mean seriously I would at least count Uncharted, Little Big Planet, Metal Gear Solid 4, Warhawk and possibly Motorstorm 2 (so much better than the crappy original) as good games.

Also I have to say, for someone who says they don't like the same old generic reruns you have a hell of a lot of sequels on your want list

Yeah fighting games are pretty much the only thing that crappy obsolete controller is good for.

I didnt much like uncharted, REALLY didnt like warhawk. Ill probably check out metal gear solid 4 at some point, but im not too keen on 20billion hours of cut scenes.

there is a big difference between a sequel and an entire genre that hasnt changed since wolfenstein 3D (other than graphics).

The yakuza games (and shenmue before them) for example, are a kind of game that isnt done very often. I'll take several more sequels, particularly if they start a new story line (or like Kenzan, which is set in Edo period Kyoto instead of modern tokyo/osaka/etc).
There are very few racing sims, and none as good as gran turismo on consoles; There hasnt been a wipeout game since PS1; god of war is one of, if not the best 3d action beat-em-up type of game (and ive only played the first one, so its hardly gotten old yet).

So id say the games im looking forward to are a far cry from generic reruns.

And the PS3 controller may not be perfect, but you are completely out of your mind if you think the junk 360 controller is better.

I wont even bother responding about blu-ray, since youre still stuck on dismissing anything that you personally dont notice or appreciate.

[MrMatthews]

I wont even bother responding about blu-ray, since youre still stuck on dismissing anything that you personally dont notice or appreciate.

It's interesting that you said that so shortly after you said this:

"there is a big difference between a sequel and an entire genre that hasnt changed since wolfenstein 3D (other than graphics)."

That statement is made all the more interesting by the fact that you like fighting games.

[Rassilon]

It's interesting that you said that so shortly after you said this:

"there is a big difference between a sequel and an entire genre that hasnt changed since wolfenstein 3D (other than graphics)."

That statement is made all the more interesting by the fact that you like fighting games.

FPSs HAVENT changed significantly since wolfenstien or doom. Its the same formula. graphics have improved, and that is all.

Fighting games have made more advances/changes in gameplay, and have more difference across developers than FPSs do. 2D fighters play significantly different than 3D fighters. Samurai shodown plays significantly different than last blade, despite both being weapon based games, and both play much different than streetfighter 3.
I cant say the same for 3 different FPSs.

Plus the number of fighting games is tiny compared to FPSs, so even if you think they havent changed much, they havent been done to death to anywhere near the same level.

[Megadragon15]

Fighting games are all unique. Every single title/series plays differently. You got your junk fighters like Mortal Kombat. Your technical fighters like Virtua Fighter. Your deep fighters like Street Fighter. And your techical and deep fighters like Tekken and Soul Calibur.

[Rassilon]

Fighting games are all unique. Every single title/series plays differently. You got your junk fighters like Mortal Kombat. Your technical fighters like Virtua Fighter. Your deep fighters like Street Fighter. And your techical and deep fighters like Tekken and Soul Calibur.

You had me until the last line.
soul calibur is about as deep as the 360 is reliable.
Its the biggest button mashers paradise (but it has its niche there i guess).

[MrMatthews]

I have to chuckle at everything you just said, mainly because everything you said against FPS's can be turned directly around and aimed at the fighting game genre.

Oh, and fighting games have been done to death. I'm amazed you said that, actually. Just because the genre is in a bit of remission right now doesn't mean that we weren't neck-deep in that shit ten years ago or so.

And the FPS genre would be dead right now if it weren't evolving. That's why we still have games like Half-Life, Bioshock, and Metroid Prime.

It really doesn't hurt my feelings if you don't like FPS's. I'm only defending the genre because you made some pretty broad, incorrect statement about it

[Rassilon]

I have to chuckle at everything you just said, mainly because everything you said against FPS's can be turned directly around and aimed at the fighting game genre.

Oh, and fighting games have been done to death. I'm amazed you said that, actually. Just because the genre is in a bit of remission right now doesn't mean that we weren't neck-deep in that shit ten years ago or so.

And the FPS genre would be dead right now if it weren't evolving. That's why we still have games like Half-Life, Bioshock, and Metroid Prime.

It really doesn't hurt my feelings if you don't like FPS's. I'm only defending the genre because you made some pretty broad, incorrect statement about it

please point out where im incorrect.
if you really like the genre, thats fine (and i guess its a good time for you with the overwhelming quantity of them).

I dont HATE FPSs so to speak, im just sick to death of them
Metroid prime however, is most excellent. i dont view it as an FPS at all though, more of an FPA (for adventure. the shooting aspect of the game is not at all the major part of it).

half-life, bioshock though, these games play exactly the same as about 3000 other FPSs i can think of.

[jesus.arnold]

There are very few racing sims, and none as good as gran turismo on consoles;

PGR games are so much better than Gran Turismo, and Gran Turismo is definatley one of those series where the basic gameplay never changes or gets any better.

There hasnt been a wipeout game since PS1

Apart from Wipeout Fusion, Wipeout Pure and Wipeout Pulse

And the PS3 controller may not be perfect, but you are completely out of your mind if you think the junk 360 controller is better.

the main difference between the PS3 controller and the 360 controller is around 10 years of progress based on research into design and ergonomics, the only reason the PS3 controller is still like it is, is due to the pressure Sony felt from it's fans who don't like change.