This depresses me, Nintendo has fallen (even farther)

[jesus.arnold]

That's not true at all. You're forgetting Beach Spikers, Phantasy Star III: C.A.R.D. Evolution, Virtua Striker 2002, PSO 1&2 Plus, and Sega developed F-Zero GX.

Well, it's not as though I was saying I was sure that was the only one, but other than F-Zero GX (which ruled) I wouldn't of bothered mentioning any of those games as being notable anyway tbh (Virtua Striker was horrendous), except PSO which wasn't actually exclusive to Gamecube anyway

Namco offered the exclusive Tales of Symphonia and Square-Enix brought Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles.

Here's a few more exclusives:

Cubivore
Baten Kaitos
Resident Evil 0
Lost Kingdoms 1 & 2
Summoner
Space Raiders
Rally Championship
Chibi Robo

Yeah we already mentioned Baiten Kaitos and Tales of Symphonia earlier, the discussion was mostly centred around Namco and Sega too.

Summoner was on the PS2

where the other games are concerned we were primarily talking about good Gamecube exclusives, the only other four games you mentioned that fall into that category would be possibly Chibi Robo, Crystal Chronicles, Resident Evil 0 and Lost Kingdoms which was another alright game.

And, as before none of those games are thought of as being 1st rate (Crystal Chronicles was great on 4-player but very poor on single)

[gamevet]

Well, it's not as though I was saying I was sure that was the only one, but other than F-Zero GX (which ruled) I wouldn't of bothered mentioning any of those games as being notable anyway tbh (Virtua Striker was horrendous), except PSO which wasn't actually exclusive to Gamecube anyway

PSO 1&2 plus has exclusive content for the Gamecube.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantasy_Star_Online

This installment of PSO features an entirely new episode that includes 5 new regions to explore: Temple, Spaceship, Central Control Area (consisting of the Control Area, Jungle, Seaside and Mountain), Seabed, and Control Tower (Control Tower is available in Online mode and in the offline Episode II Plus version quests). This installment also adds 3 new character class/race combinations, many new items, many new creatures, and some added cheat protection (however, cheats and glitches were still found and exploited, rarely being addressed by Sonic Team). You can also play online with the Gamecube if you have a broadband adapter or modem adapter. Data between the previous Gamecube version and the Plus version is completely (and instantly) transferable.

where the other games are concerned we were primarily talking about good Gamecube exclusives, the only other four games you mentioned that fall into that category would be possibly Chibi Robo, Crystal Chronicles, Resident Evil 0 and Lost Kingdoms which was another alright game.

No offense, but you were listing a bunch of developers for the N64 that had pretty average titles. Castlevania 64 is by no means a great game, or even consider that good.

I really loved Blast Corps back then, but I'd tried to play it last year and it hasn't aged all that well. The gameplay seemed pretty unique back then, but now it's like taking all the puzzle elements out of a great game and making into one big average puzzle quest.

[jesus.arnold]

PSO 1&2 plus has exclusive content for the Gamecube.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantasy_Star_Online

Exclusive content does not equal exclusive game, and to be honest Phantasy Star is the last game you should be bringing up in this respect as the game is totally centred on the online and Gamecube's online was ultra sh#t and had virtually no users, in fact wasn't PSO the only proper online game on the whole system?!?!

No offense, but you were listing a bunch of developers for the N64 that had pretty average titles. Castlevania 64 is by no means a great game, or even consider that good.

Castlevania 64 is an excellent game and the only two issues I've ever heard people have with it is the camera which caused me no problems at all, and that it doesn't stack up to symphony of the night (which it doesn't)

Every single game I mentioned on the N64 consistantly scored at least around the 80% mark, they were all relatively liked games, you however named games like Space Raiders and Virtua Striker 2002 which are not only appaling in my opinion but are universally panned across the board.

Make no mistake, though I like the Lost Kingdom games they don't stack up to any of the N64 games I mentioned at all, Lost Kingdoms firmly belongs around the 75% score mark.

[jesus.arnold]

Did they pull the plug on the Gamecube pretty quickly into its life?

No not really, as far as I can remember after an alright start (mainly due to Sega porting their DC software) the games just seemed to slow to a drizel and eventually there was only a few being released every few months, the console pretty much died a very slow death.

[gamevet]

Exclusive content does not equal exclusive game, and to be honest Phantasy Star is the last game you should be bringing up in this respect as the game is totally centred on the online and Gamecube's online was ultra sh#t and had virtually no users, in fact wasn't PSO the only proper online game on the whole system?!?!

PSO III also supported online play and there was a way to set up online play through Mario Karts' LAN support.

Exclusive content does count for something. The exclusive content doesn't need online play to be accessed and I believe PSO 1&2 Plus on the Cube supported 4 player split screen. The Xbox version wasn't exactly tearing up Xbox LIVE either and the DC version was pretty much dead (except for hacks) by 2003. The GC version was online til about April of 2007, a good 2 years after the GC was pretty much dead.

Castlevania 64 is an excellent game and the only two issues I've ever heard people have with it is the camera which caused me no problems at all, and that it doesn't stack up to symphony of the night (which it doesn't)

Every single game I mentioned on the N64 consistantly scored at least around the 80% mark, they were all relatively liked games, you however named games like Space Raiders and Virtua Striker 2002 which are not only appaling in my opinion but are universally panned across the board.

I'd mentioned Virtua Striker, because it was a Sega exclusive, not becuase it was great. It was a Sega arcade game though. Space Raiders had a wierd cult following, but I never thought of it as great either.

Castlevania 64 didn't crack the 80% ratings by the critics (more like 73%) and barely missed it with fans. It was considered the worst Castlevania game ever (at the time), and most fans of the series boycotted the 3D Castlevanias.

This reviewer agrees with you though.

http://www.gamespot.com/n64/adventur...nia/index.html

[j_factor]

The PS2 already had a ridiculous amount of exclusives and having most of the 3rd party Gamecube games on it as well (and earlier in most cases, Capcom excluded) really doesn't help the Gamecube's cause at all, buying the PS2 gave you access to virtually every single 3rd party title available on Gamecube and many, many exclusives, this thread actually started an argument between me and my friend 10 minutes ago and after all was said and done at the end of it he'd actually struggled to think of more than 5 exclusive 3rd party games, which had actually quite shocked him as he really thought there was more.

I don't see how having multiplatform games is a negative. Would it have been better for the Gamecube if all those multiplatform games just didn't even have a Gamecube version? N64 missed out on a lot of multiplatform (or would-be multiplatform) games. Gamecube had a much, much bigger library than N64 overall because of it. They two systems have roughly the same lifespan and yet Gamecube's US library is over twice as large. I don't know why you're bringing up PS2, I thought we were comparing Gamecube to N64. I really don't see why I should care that Killer 7 (for example) was ported to PS2 -- why would I want the worse version?

But hey, here's some good third-party exclusives on Gamecube. As a bonus, I'll even list the developer of each.

Amazing Island [Hitmaker/Ancient]
Baten Kaitos [tri-Crescendo/Monolith]
Beach Spikers [AM2]
Billy Hatcher [Sonic Team]
Bomberman Generation (a million times better than Bomberman 64) [Hudson]
Cubivore [Atlus]
Dragon Drive [Treasure]
Eternal Darkness [Silicon Knights]
F-Zero GX [Amusement Vision]
Geist [n-Space]
Go! Go! Hypergrind [Atlus]
Gotcha Force [Capcom]
Harvest Moon: Magical Melody [Marvelous/Natsume]
Kururin Squash [Eighting/Raizing]
Lost Kingdoms [Activision/From Software]
Mr. Driller: Drill Land [Namco]
Odama [Vivarium]
PSO Plus [Sonic Team]
PSO Card Battle [Sonic Team]
P.N. 03 [Capcom/CPS4]
Road Trip: Arcade Edition [Hudson/Takara]
Skies of Arcadia Legends [Overworks]
Sonic Gems Collection (the only home port of Sonic the Fighters) [Sonic Team]
Super Monkey Ball [Amusement Vision]
Swingerz Golf [Telenet]
Tales of Symphonia [Namco/Wolfteam]
Tube Slider [NEC]
Wario World [Treasure]

[gamevet]

I don't see how having multiplatform games is a negative. Would it have been better for the Gamecube if all those multiplatform games just didn't even have a Gamecube version? N64 missed out on a lot of multiplatform (or would-be multiplatform) games. Gamecube had a much, much bigger library than N64 overall because of it. They two systems have roughly the same lifespan and yet Gamecube's US library is over twice as large. I don't know why you're bringing up PS2, I thought we were comparing Gamecube to N64. I really don't see why I should care that Killer 7 (for example) was ported to PS2 -- why would I want the worse version?

It's a negative, because using the exclusive clause makes his case sound better.

I found a lot of the exclusive games for the N64 weren't really all that great. Beatle Adventure racing was a slow plodding racer that really wasn't that much fun to play. Jet Force Gemini was decent fun, but after a while the gameplay became repetetive. Load Runner 64 was nowhere near as fun as its 2-D counterpart. And Conker's Bad Fur day was just another generic 3-D platformer, that used a cussing squirrel as a gimmick to sell a crippled frame-rate game with very little gameplay value. I won't even go into detail about the most over-rated games on the system, with Goldeneye and Perfect Dark.

If I have a choice between a game that was made on Gamecube and then ported to PS2, I'm going with the GC version. It's defineatly a plus for the GC, since it's most likely going to support progressive scan and have better texture mapping as well. Then you have a game like Star Wars: Bounty Hunter, that played much better than the PS2 and Xbox versions of the game.

[j_factor]

It's a negative, because using the exclusive clause makes his case sound better.

I found a lot of the exclusive games for the N64 weren't really all that great. Beatle Adventure racing was a slow plodding racer that really wasn't that much fun to play. Jet Force Gemini was decent fun, but after a while the gameplay became repetetive. Load Runner 64 was nowhere near as fun as its 2-D counterpart. And Conker's Bad Fur day was just another generic 3-D platformer, that used a cussing squirrel as a gimmick to sell a crippled frame-rate game with very little gameplay value. I won't even go into detail about the most over-rated games on the system, with Goldeneye and Perfect Dark.

It always seemed to me that because N64 was kind of starved for new releases, every time a significant game came out, people (including reviewers) were desperate to put a positive spin on the quality of the game. I remember Mission Impossible getting some decent press on the N64 for example -- and that game was garbage. When it was ported to Playstation, it was rightly trashed for the garbage it is.

Also, Majora's Mask wasn't really that great. There's too much repetition involved, making the gameplay fairly tedious. I remember so many reviews giving it near-perfect scores and saying it was one of the best games ever. I guarantee that if the same game had come out for Playstation and wasn't called Zelda, it would've averaged around 7 or 8 out of 10. And I won't even get into the details of Donkey Kong 64, but I will say that it's genuinely a very bad game, and the fact that it got 9/10 from many professional reviewers is what destroyed whatever faith I had in game reviews.

[gamevet]

It always seemed to me that because N64 was kind of starved for new releases, every time a significant game came out, people (including reviewers) were desperate to put a positive spin on the quality of the game. I remember Mission Impossible getting some decent press on the N64 for example -- and that game was garbage. When it was ported to Playstation, it was rightly trashed for the garbage it is.

I'd bought a N64 about a month after launch. It was bad enough that I had to pay $70 for Waverace and with Mario 64 being $79 it was even more painful. The first year was nearly a drought and I was beginning to think I had another Jaguar on my hands.

The N64 library was pretty thin the first couple of years and it really didn't start seeing a ton of action until late 1998. By the time crap like Conkers came out, I was already deep into the Dreamcast library.

[jesus.arnold]

Castlevania 64 didn't crack the 80% ratings by the critics (more like 73%)

N64 Magazine - 81%
N64 Pro - 88%
Gamespot - 8.2 (the one you just posted)
64' Magazine - 85%
IGN - 8.2
Nintendo World - 82%
Nintendo Official Magazine UK - 86%

I hate to be smarmy here but I'm going to say this pretty much ends that discussion.

I don't see how having multiplatform games is a negative.

I never ever said it was a negative in the first place, it's neither negative or positive it's neutral, I'll try to make the concept easier for you,

Console 1 has----------------------Console 2 has

Hobo Battle 3D----------------------Hobo Battle 3D
Extreme sheep shearing 4------------Extreme sheep shearing 4
Ultra Combo Striker 7----------------Ultra Combo Striker 7
Shoot to kill 7-----------------------Shoot to Kill 7
------------------------------------Samurai Striker 3
------------------------------------Cup Drinker 2004
------------------------------------Asphalt Jungle
------------------------------------Car Stealer 3
------------------------------------Flower arranger 3D
------------------------------------Pirate Parot Catcher 2

Which one would you choose to buy?

The multi-format games have no bearing on the choice as they are all constants, there's no point in thinking about constants when comparing two things, you only look at the variables. So if someone asked me whether I'd buy an N64 or Gamecube I'd say N64, if I wanted to play Timesplitters 2 or Prince of Persia I'd buy a PS2 for it's extra exclusives.

Basically you'd only buy a Gamecube for it's Nintendo made games because they aren't available on other formats.

I don't know why you're bringing up PS2, I thought we were comparing Gamecube to N64.

I'm bringing up the PS2 because it decreases the Gamecubes worth

I really don't see why I should care that Killer 7 (for example) was ported to PS2 -- why would I want the worse version?

I've played both versions of Killer 7 and there's very little difference at all, the same can also be said of Timesplitters 2, the only thing I noticed in the whole game was a very slight amount of slowdown towards the end.

But hey, here's some good third-party exclusives on Gamecube. As a bonus, I'll even list the developer of each.

Amazing Island [Hitmaker/Ancient],Baten Kaitos [tri-Crescendo/Monolith], Beach Spikers [AM2], Billy Hatcher [Sonic Team], Bomberman Generation (a million times better than Bomberman 64) [Hudson], Cubivore [Atlus], Dragon Drive [Treasure], Eternal Darkness [Silicon Knights], F-Zero GX [Amusement Vision], Geist [n-Space], Go! Go! Hypergrind [Atlus], Gotcha Force [Capcom]
Harvest Moon: Magical Melody [Marvelous/Natsume], Kururin Squash [Eighting/Raizing], Lost Kingdoms [Activision/From Software], Mr. Driller: Drill Land [Namco], Odama [Vivarium], PSO Plus [Sonic Team], PSO Card Battle [Sonic Team], P.N. 03 [Capcom/CPS4], Road Trip: Arcade Edition [Hudson/Takara], Skies of Arcadia Legends [Overworks], Sonic Gems Collection (the only home port of Sonic the Fighters) [Sonic Team], Super Monkey Ball [Amusement Vision], Swingerz Golf [Telenet], Tales of Symphonia [Namco/Wolfteam], Tube Slider [NEC], Wario World [Treasure]

I really don't understand how you guys can criticise my list of good N64 games and then post these lists full of atrocious games Odama? Geist?!

Lets see apart from the bad games and the ones that have already been mentioned many, many times that leaves us with Skies of Arcadia which I own on the Dreamcast, Super Monkey Ball which I own on the PS2 in a much better form with Monkey Ball 2 included, Bomberman Generation which could be alright I guess as I never checked up on it as I already own 3 or 4 different versions of Bomberman (and being better than the ultra crap Bomberman 64 is hardly anything to write home about) and lastly but most importantly the Japanese imports which I will concede may well be brilliant, I'd imagine Kurrurin rocks as I liked the GBA game a lot but I don't intend to buy it as I know full well i'll accidently forget to switch memory cards and delete it's contents eventually.

I found a lot of the exclusive games for the N64 weren't really all that great. Beatle Adventure racing was a slow plodding racer that really wasn't that much fun to play. Jet Force Gemini was decent fun, but after a while the gameplay became repetetive. Load Runner 64 was nowhere near as fun as its 2-D counterpart. And Conker's Bad Fur day was just another generic 3-D platformer, that used a cussing squirrel as a gimmick to sell a crippled frame-rate game with very little gameplay value. I won't even go into detail about the most over-rated games on the system, with Goldeneye and Perfect Dark.

I can tell you guys are going to hate my N64 feature with a fiery passion

It always seemed to me that because N64 was kind of starved for new releases, every time a significant game came out, people (including reviewers) were desperate to put a positive spin on the quality of the game. I remember Mission Impossible getting some decent press on the N64 for example -- and that game was garbage. When it was ported to Playstation, it was rightly trashed for the garbage it is.

Actually I've always found the opposite to be the truth, whenever multi-format games were released the PS1 version always seemed to get much higher scores whilst the N64 version would be criticised for being outdated, also every N64 review of Mission impossible I own says it's garbage 64' Magazine - 48% Nintendo World 60% for instance.

I've never noticed N64 magazines to give easy breaks to games due to there being a small software library, it fact they usualy contain many extremely low scores Superman 64, MK Mythologies (which has the tagline "it couldn't be less fun unless it squirted sulphuric acid into your face"), Holy Magic Century and virtually every other RPG on the system (and if they were going to rate a game higher due to game starvation then I'm sure they'd do it for an RPG) California Speed, the Cruis'n series, Aero Gauge.

Here's my timeline of Gamecube ownership,

I bought it and had high hopes, after a while it became apparent that for the most part Nintendo were releasing updates of games I already owned with only a few interesting new games here and there, I settled into quite liking the console thinking that at least I had the old N64 classics updated and looking better on Gamecube with nicer graphics, this gave the Gamecube some worth in my eyes.......then the Wii was released and all said games were updated again thereby superceding my GC games and putting them into a middle ground, they weren't the originals/pioneers that the N64 games were nor were they the latest and greatest with the best graphics and extras. They were merely also-rans of the series'.

[gamevet]

N64 Magazine - 81%
N64 Pro - 88%
Gamespot - 8.2 (the one you just posted)
64' Magazine - 85%
IGN - 8.2
Nintendo World - 82%
Nintendo Official Magazine UK - 86%

Did you happen to notice that most of those magazine titles have the name Nintendo or 64 in them?

I'd posted a link that showed one reviewer giving the game an 81, but his peers (all 11 of them) gave the game an average ranking of 7.3, or 73%.

I remember reading more bad than good reviews for the game and most seemed to agree that it didn't really feel like a Castlevania game, even if it was in 3-D.

]I've played both versions of Killer 7 and there's very little difference at all, the same can also be said of Timesplitters 2, the only thing I noticed in the whole game was a very slight amount of slowdown towards the end.

I guess that would depend on what type of television you're playing it on. I still love to play the PS2, but I'll take an Xbox or Gamecube version 90% of the time because of progressive scan. Most of the PS2s library doesn't support progressive and on an HDTV, it kind of looks blurry because of it. Even Final Fantasy X, which looked great in s-video on my 27" Trinitron, looks like ass on my 32' Wega HD CRT.

The PS2 version of Star Wars: Bounty Hunter got dissed by reviewers because the gameplay just didn't flow well. The GC version however, often gets a lot of praise and most Star Wars game fans called it the defineative version of the game. Perhaps that's because the game started on the GC and took advantage of the hardware.


This reviewer wasn't exactly thrilled with the game, but he did note how much better the GC version was.

http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/act...ry;read-review

One of the most popular Star Wars characters has always been Boba Fett, the soft-spoken yet ruthless bounty hunter seen in The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Though true Star Wars geeks are quick to cite that Boba first appeared not in Empire but as a cartoon character in the embarrassing 1978 TV production The Star Wars Holiday Special, we got a surprising glimpse at the bounty hunter as a young boy in this year's Star Wars: Episode II Attack of the Clones. There we also learned where Boba Fett apparently learned the tricks of the trade: from his father, Jango. Attack of the Clones met with mixed reactions--it featured plenty of impressive special effects along with plenty of awkward romantic sequences, but the scenes featuring Jango and son stood out among the highlights. Now Boba Fett's predecessor is the star of his very own video game in Star Wars Bounty Hunter, a third-person action game that allows you to perform most all of the cool moves that Jango used in the film. And even though the game's overall execution leaves something to be desired, Bounty Hunter has its good points, and the GameCube version is markedly better than the PlayStation 2 release.

As you can see from these 41 reviews, the game was all over the charts. It really was a love/hate with Bounty Hunter, but you'd often hear the Star Wars faithful say it was under-rated and not to judge the game on its PS2 counterpart.

http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/act...y;critic-score

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the game is a stellar title on the GC; I've still not played it. But, it's one of the many missed titles on the GC I'd love to play on the cheap, because of all the praise I've heard about it on the Star Wars boards.

many times that leaves us with Skies of Arcadia which I own on the Dreamcast,

As much as I loved playing Skies of Arcadia on the DC, the random battles did me in. Once I'd gotten past the great rift/wall or whatever it was, the random sky battle every 20-30 seconds just sucked all of the fun out of the game. Especially when I was forced to search the air high and low for my next destination.

If I ever play Skies again, it'll be on the GC. I've heard that Sega toned down the random battles quite a bit in the GC version.

[jesus.arnold]

Did you happen to notice that most of those magazine titles have the name Nintendo or 64 in them?

I'd posted a link that showed one reviewer giving the game an 81, but his peers (all 11 of them) gave the game an average ranking of 7.3, or 73%.

I remember reading more bad than good reviews for the game and most seemed to agree that it didn't really feel like a Castlevania game, even if it was in 3-D.

Yes because publications centred around the N64 can't be trusted but the unknown hacks on the sidebar of Gamespot review page do matter?!?!

At the end of the day all N64 publications I own review the game over 80%, and even if you don't like those scores or find them biased my minor knowledge of multi-format US magazines and websites may be limited but I do know that

IGN - 8.2
EGM - 8.8
Gamespot - 8.2
and Gamepro - 4.5/5 (or made into a percentage 90%)

are all relatively well known and respected in the videogame community.

If I ever play Skies again, it'll be on the GC. I've heard that Sega toned down the random battles quite a bit in the GC version.

Yes Skies on Gamecube does have less random battles in it as well as some minor additions here and there, other notable points are it's inferior audio and obvious lack of anything concerning the VMU (It didn't do a lot with the VMU granted but I kinda' like any of the games that actually used the feature on Dreamcast) so it's definately worth considering if you own both consoles to get the GC one (though it's certainly not a clear-cut, perfect version by any means)

[gamevet]

IGN - 8.2
EGM - 8.8
Gamespot - 8.2
and Gamepro - 4.5/5 (or made into a percentage 90%)

)

I wouldn't take anything Gamepro rates, as serious. The magazine has been the joke of gaming publications for well over a decade. If EGM liked it, I'm not surprised. They've been known to inflate scores a little, to keep the advertisers happy.

I do trust Gamecritics though, and this review nails what is so wrong with Castlevania 64. And I'm sure they hated Bounty Hunter as well.

http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrank...193171&popup=1

Seeing as how the sequels following both Castlevania 64 and Castlevania: Legacy Of Darkness dropped the three-dimensional aspect altogether, it is safe to say that Konami realized its errors and adopted the classic line "Why mess with the good things?" Hence, this proves that the third dimension isnt always the savior it claims to be when attempting to offer game series another shot at glory for a new generation.

[j_factor]

I never ever said it was a negative in the first place, it's neither negative or positive it's neutral, I'll try to make the concept easier for you,

Console 1 has----------------------Console 2 has

Hobo Battle 3D----------------------Hobo Battle 3D
Extreme sheep shearing 4------------Extreme sheep shearing 4
Ultra Combo Striker 7----------------Ultra Combo Striker 7
Shoot to kill 7-----------------------Shoot to Kill 7
------------------------------------Samurai Striker 3
------------------------------------Cup Drinker 2004
------------------------------------Asphalt Jungle
------------------------------------Car Stealer 3
------------------------------------Flower arranger 3D
------------------------------------Pirate Parot Catcher 2

Which one would you choose to buy?

But we were talking about more than two systems a bit ago. What if:

Console 1 has 6 exclusives and 0 multiplatform games
Console 2 has 5 exclusives and the definitive versions of 8 multiplatform games
Console 3 has 9 exclusives and lesser versions of those same 8 multiplatform games

Consoles 2 and 3 are both more worth owning than Console 1, IMO.

The multi-format games have no bearing on the choice as they are all constants, there's no point in thinking about constants when comparing two things, you only look at the variables. So if someone asked me whether I'd buy an N64 or Gamecube I'd say N64, if I wanted to play Timesplitters 2 or Prince of Persia I'd buy a PS2 for it's extra exclusives.

Funny, if I want to play Prince of Persia (and I love that series), I wouldn't even consider the PS2 versions. The Sands of Time is best on Xbox and the other two are best on Gamecube (Two Thrones may be best on Wii, but we'll exclude that from the discussion for now). Those are the versions I'm going to play, and the fact that lesser PS2 ports also exist isn't going to affect that.

Basically you'd only buy a Gamecube for it's Nintendo made games because they aren't available on other formats.

Nonsense. I personally own 61 Gamecube games, and only a few of them are developed by Nintendo.

I'm bringing up the PS2 because it decreases the Gamecubes worth

I strongly disagree. If anything, Xbox does, but PS2 doesn't.

I've played both versions of Killer 7 and there's very little difference at all, the same can also be said of Timesplitters 2, the only thing I noticed in the whole game was a very slight amount of slowdown towards the end.

I don't even care about Timesplitters 2, but the difference in Killer 7 is fairly significant. The Gamecube version has smoother visuals, supports progressive scan (I don't think it does on PS2), better controls, and significantly faster load times. Sure, the PS2 version isn't awful, but the Gamecube version is definitely preferred.

I really don't understand how you guys can criticise my list of good N64 games and then post these lists full of atrocious games Odama? Geist?!

I don't believe I actually criticized your list of games, but since you brought it up, Rakuga Kids fucking sucked. And Geist is great, btw.

Lets see apart from the bad games and the ones that have already been mentioned many, many times that leaves us with Skies of Arcadia which I own on the Dreamcast, Super Monkey Ball which I own on the PS2 in a much better form with Monkey Ball 2 included, Bomberman Generation which could be alright I guess as I never checked up on it as I already own 3 or 4 different versions of Bomberman (and being better than the ultra crap Bomberman 64 is hardly anything to write home about) and lastly but most importantly the Japanese imports which I will concede may well be brilliant, I'd imagine Kurrurin rocks as I liked the GBA game a lot but I don't intend to buy it as I know full well i'll accidently forget to switch memory cards and delete it's contents eventually.

You can't seriously be recommending the Dreamcast version of Skies of Arcadia over Legends, or Super Monkey Ball Deluxe over the originals. That is just ludicrous.

And Generation is one of the best Bomberman games. It's not just another version of Bomberman, it actually has a great single-player mode that is unique to it.

Actually I've always found the opposite to be the truth, whenever multi-format games were released the PS1 version always seemed to get much higher scores whilst the N64 version would be criticised for being outdated, also every N64 review of Mission impossible I own says it's garbage 64' Magazine - 48% Nintendo World 60% for instance.

On Gamestats, Mission Impossible for N64 has a Press Score of 7.3, whereas the Playstation version is 5.5.

I've never noticed N64 magazines to give easy breaks to games due to there being a small software library, it fact they usualy contain many extremely low scores Superman 64, MK Mythologies (which has the tagline "it couldn't be less fun unless it squirted sulphuric acid into your face"), Holy Magic Century and virtually every other RPG on the system (and if they were going to rate a game higher due to game starvation then I'm sure they'd do it for an RPG) California Speed, the Cruis'n series, Aero Gauge.

Yeah well, those were horrible, horrible games (except Cruis'n, which was merely mediocre). What about the games we mentioned above? Majora's Mask, Donkey Kong 64, Perfect Dark? I stand by my comment that those games would not have received the level of praise they did had they been on any other system. Hell, I would say Castlevania 64 is one of those games too -- it simply isn't a very good game, and it pales in comparison to something like MediEvil (which itself isn't even all that amazing).

[Tanegashima]

Very few systems completely suck. But few would argue the 3DO is say better than the N64.

I still find it funny that both Sega and Nintendo tanked in the late 90's. The Saturn and N64 came no where near the sales of the Genesis and SNES.


'Course nothing will ever beat Genesis or SNES.

People have to admit SNES is GREAT (not as great as the Genesis, but great nonetheless)

Ninja Gaiden Trilogy
Slew of awesome Castlevania games
Mega Man games
Super Metroid
Contra III
Act Raiser

There are some DAMN fine games for the SNES. I'd still take the Genesis simply for the fact that I've never owned a SNES and have no attachment to it. I might own one one day if the prices on the damn games ever go down, the SNES is worse to collect for than the Saturn. But it needs to be acknowledged.

Genesis Does...but SNES still deserves a nod.