Eternal Champions

[JackieBogard]

I feel the same way about the Mortal Kombat series. Street Fighter is by far my cup of tea.

MK doesn't bother me move input wise, because the hard inputs are finishers, which makes sense. but for Eternal Champions it had ridiculous inputs. for instance.

Midnight

pecial Moves:
==============
Life Drain (Close) T + X + Y + Z
Ceiling Ram (Close) D, U + C
Bedazzle X + Y + Z
Dispel A + B + C
Mist Attack A + C
Flying Wall Smash HoldBk, T + Z
Overhead Stomach Punch (Close) T + A + B + C


Rax

Special Moves:
==============
Lock and Load A + B
Air Jets D, U + B
Cyber Punch X + Y + Z
Cyber Kick A + B + C
Jet Knee Smash HoldBk, T + C
Overload A + C
Turbine HoldBk, T + A

Shadow

Special Moves:
==============
Shadow Mode A + B + C
Twirling Fan Attack HoldBk, T + A(1 spin)/B(2 spins)
/C(3 spins)
High Jump Angle Kick D, U + B
Smoke Screen (re-appear at opponent) X + Y + Z
Smoke Screen (re-appear at left) X + Y + Z, A + B
Smoke Screen (re-appear at right) X + Y + Z, B + C
Ninja Shuriken HoldBk, T + X(slow)/Y(fast)
Ninja Knife HoldBk, UT + X(slow)/Y(fast)
Ninja Smoke Bomb HoldBk, DT + X(slow)/Y(fast)
Flying Mine Uzume-Bi HoldBk, T + Z
Flying Step Tobi Ashi (short) A + B
Flying Step Tobi Ashi (medium) B + C
Flying Step Tobi Ashi (super) A + C


its near impossible to remember half of those and the god awful cheap AI makes it hard to do anything at all!.

[NeoVamp]

I just received answers to some of my questions for it, so it's still underway. Don't worry though, it'll be published sooner or later.

Whoohooo!

[Nobi]

4:28- oh my god

mortal who?

[Zork]

4:28- oh my god

mortal who?

Jesus! I must've not gotten far at all in Eternal Champions, because I've never seen any of that. Way bloodier than Mortal Kombat

[The Coop]

Jesus! I must've not gotten far at all in Eternal Champions, because I've never seen any of that. Way bloodier than Mortal Kombat

That's the Sega CD sequel, not the Genesis game which Baloo did his article on. So if you want the blood guts and gore (and better graphics, music, gameplay tweaks, characters, etc.), "Challenge From the Dark Side" is the one to play.

[Baloo]

That's the Sega CD sequel, not the Genesis game which Baloo did his article on. So if you want the blood guts and gore (and better graphics, music, gameplay tweaks, characters, etc.), "Challenge From the Dark Side" is the one to play.

Yeah, Eternal Champions CftDS is definitely the better game as a whole, but the one weak point in my opinion is the soundtrack, and some of the changed ending text. I love the Genesis soundtrack, and I think the Sega CD one sounds pretty bad in comparison. The rock music is just really unfitting.

And the endings became pretty un-epic (Xavier's went from awesome to flat out fluff that told you nothing) in the process as well. It's as if whoever was writing the endings went and took out the ending, and focused a little too much on the things in the scenery rather than what really happened. "And there was an Owl on a lampost near the witch burning that got sucked in with Xavier and became his pal for the rest of his days." instead of saying "And Xavier learned how to travel through time with his Owl friend that got sucked in with him while he was at the stake." Poor writing overall for the Sega CD endings.

But other than that and the music, it's a very solid title, better than the Genesis game.

[Nobi]

hmm yeah um, ive never played the sega cd game but from what im seeing im not liking the new characters. its like they kept the original 9(most awesome mother******* of all fighting games) and then just hastily threw together a motley crue of characters to throw in with them. i hav'nt played it yet though so i dont know is that the case? how are the new characters story's and moves? are they as interesting and bad ass as the classic 9?

something interesting sega could do with the franchise in the future is throw them in a crossover vs game like mortal kombat vs eternal champions(wouldve worked better than dc universe) or something that would be cool if sega would bring the franchise back after all of these years.

it seems like the anti button mashing controlls were something that got carried over to sega's next fighting franchise "virtua fighter" as well. the games were being developed around the same period in time werent they?

[OldSchool]

4:28- oh my god

mortal who?

Jesus

Those are ruthless


definitely waaaay, way more hardcore than MC ever was

wow

[Glisp]

Sega-16 should really do another interview with Steven Lashower and ask him specific details about EC1 (he didn't work on EC-CD)
like why they cut Blast & Chin Woo from the Genesis version.

(was the game originally going to be a 32mbit game?)


As you can see Chin-Wo and Blast were originally part of the Genesis game.
were they just cut or unfinished all together?
also Midknight uses Blast's Vietnam War background, I take it this was not intended originally,
was his bio rewritten to include the part about him being a biochemist who was working on a virus to be used in the war,
or was that always part of his story?
(another proof is that in the CD version Blast's stage is indeed the Vietnam stage)


Steven Lashower's old website where i got the above image from.


and a quote from the interview with Steven Lashower :



Is this the reason why Shadow got a completely new outfit in the CD version?
because of legal reasons?

Also Blade reminds me so much of the comic character who goes by the same name,
was EC's Blade originally based on the comic character? Perhaps a licensing deal that fell through?

Also Blade's bio states that he was chasing a scientist but was then framed by his own government and shot,
and Midknight's bio states that he was killed in the future by someone who drove a magnesium stake into his heart.
Did these two characters originally share a storyline where Blade hunted Midknight?
Because Blade's bio states that he was tracking a scientist with a virus,
and Midknight's story mentions that he fled because they made him make a virus.


I have so many questions about this game and i wish i could ask them. >_<

I can help you with some of those. Just talked to Michael Latham (trust me, he's a much more viable source than Steven.)

Apparently, Chin Wo and Blast were indeed planned. Mike said they were removed. Jetta was also a male Clown with moves that resembled those of Senator at one point in concept stages. As for the in game screenshot, I'm pretty sure it was a mock up.

Here's what Mike said:

[2:40:40 AM] Michael Latham: If it's from Lashower it's real.
[2:40:57 AM] Michael Latham: But you can ping him to see if that's true.
[2:42:21 AM] Justin Harris (Glisp): so Chin Wo and Blast were planned?
[2:43:23 AM] Justin Harris (Glisp): I'm pretty positive though that they were never added to the actual game.
[2:43:37 AM] Michael Latham: Yes, I thought you asked if they were planned as the eternal champions
[2:43:51 AM] Michael Latham: meaning EC's
[2:43:54 AM] Justin Harris (Glisp): Ah.
[2:44:10 AM] Michael Latham: No they were planned of course. Design both myself.
[2:44:20 AM] Justin Harris (Glisp): Why were they scrapped?
[2:44:34 AM] Justin Harris (Glisp): Cart Costs?
[2:44:37 AM] Michael Latham: ROM limits
[2:44:38 AM] Justin Harris (Glisp): Ah.
[2:45:00 AM] Michael Latham: Many were cut, and then must go.
[2:45:19 AM] Michael Latham: Such as Jetta started life as a male clown
[2:45:28 AM] Justin Harris (Glisp): I remember that.
[2:45:32 AM] Michael Latham: and was redesigned into a female.
[2:45:38 AM] Michael Latham: to balance the choices.
[2:45:54 AM] Michael Latham: Dawson also didn't make the first cut
[2:46:03 AM] Michael Latham: but his proto-version was there.

Apparently, Dawson was also in the original game at one point.
So apparently, that confirms Chin Wo and Blast as canon. For me anyway. I suppose Senator is canon as well as the animal characters.

Also, that Steven Lashower quote from your above post comes from the Michael Latham interview here: http://www.sega-16.com/feature_page....chael%20Latham

I've also got a ton of information on the third EC I've asked him about. I even know how the game's best ending is supposed to go down, right down to the final battle order and events. All I can say for now is that Chaos EC takes the constants the other two Eternals have, and throws them out the window.

I'm saving sharing the other EC3 information for right now. I've shared it to several others but for right now, I'm gonna hold off on sharing it. Not because I'm trying to be an ass, I just don't want to make a bigger post than I have to.

[Baloo]

Very nice! I asked Steven Lashower some questions around 6 months ago and he actually couldn't remember if they were planned or not, had to check a box of Eternal Champions stuff that he had. But he was rather busy with two games, a new child, and a new house, so he never really got back to me after I tried to re-make contact twice unfortunately. He also had no info on EC 3, said he didn't hear about it until years later. Great to hear some more info though from another reputable source, Mike Latham!

Thanks for the info!

[Glisp]

Yeah, Michael is a very busy man as well, however, I do get to talk to him every now and then. I'm mainly talking with him about info regarding Eternal Champions 3. You see, I have plans for a fangame of what EC3 was supposed to be and I contacted Mike regarding EC 3 and the fangame. He liked the idea and even offered to host it on his website after it was finished, but also stated that he only owned the name of the franchise. The characters' names and likenesses all belong to Sega now.

I still don't know the names of the Infernals yet, as Mike has been very busy. I do however know a lot of information regarding Chaos Eternal Champion, as previously mentioned and his appearance and abilities.
If you would like to hear about what I know so far, then please do tell me.

[Logomachist]

Mark me down as interested in the EC3 info. The fangame too, if its good. :)

Edit: I can also provide info on the inspiration for the Black Orchid corp and Trident if anyone is interested in that. .

[NeoVamp]

Edit: I can also provide info on the inspiration for the Black Orchid corp and Trident if anyone is interested in that. .

I'm always interested in inspiration stuff, as long as its real info
and not just an opinion on what "might" have been their inspiration.

so if its real info, please do tell!

[Glisp]

Mark me down as interested in the EC3 info. The fangame too, if its good.

Edit: I can also provide info on the inspiration for the Black Orchid corp and Trident if anyone is interested in that. .

I have posted some info in another thread regarding what I know thus far about EC3 iirc.


Ah here we are:

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showpos...1&postcount=13

and more info here:
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showpos...8&postcount=15
Hope the helps answer some questions.

And if you haven't checked this yes, here's Sega-16's 2005 interview with Mike Latham.
http://www.sega-16.com/feature_page....chael%20Latham

Possibly, but it ever looked like it to me. They always looked grainy as hell like so many other Sega CD FMV sections.

Now, keep in mind folks, I'm not saying it's 100% factually untrue. I'm just saying that I personally believe that EC:CFtDS uses no more 64-colors max on-screen at all times. I've yet to make or see a screen grab that didn't back up with this belief. That's all.

That came from a sprite sheet I made. No colors were altered when ported to to MUGEN's fighter factory only one color was repositioned. The transparency color.

Also, it uses the Sega CD half of the machine for the additional colors. So if you were looking in the Sega Mega Drive/Genesis half you probably wouldn't be able to tell that (trust me, I've talked to a tech expert on the matter over at Sonic Retro.)

Nov 14 14:26:05 <FraGag> the Genesis and Sega CD can display 512 different colors (without shadow & highlight)
Nov 14 14:26:18 <Glisp> Thanks, that's how then.
Nov 14 14:26:33 <Glisp> I wonder why the Sega Retro wiki artiicle says 128.
Nov 14 14:26:53 <FraGag> with shadow & highlight, you get a little less than 1536 unique colors, because some are duplicates
Nov 14 14:27:36 <MathUser2929> how many colors can SNES show at once?
Nov 14 14:33:11 <FraGag> # Colors available in Cinepak and TruVideo modes: 128 to 256 colors

If that's not enough proof, I could always go to Michael Latham regarding that matter.

[retrospiel]

If I remember correctly the original EC uses ~30 colors in game.

The Sega CD does not affect color usage at all. It's still up to ~60 colors at once in most games (as shadow & highlight is practically never used).

I would be VERY surprised if the SCD version of EC uses more than 30 colors at once.