SegaCD = Greatest CD add on?

[gamegenie]

Exactly. Only thing it proved, was that Nintendo were fools

Super Mario 64
Star Fox 64
Donkey Kong 64
Smash Bros
Banjo Kazooie
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
Killer Instinct
Goldeneye
Perfect Dark
Resident Evil 2
and many more disagree with you.


You couldn't played that many great games in the late 90s without owning a N64.

[Chilly Willy]

Super Mario 64
Star Fox 64
Donkey Kong 64
Smash Bros
Banjo Kazooie
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
Killer Instinct
Goldeneye
Perfect Dark
Resident Evil 2
and many more disagree with you.


You couldn't played that many great games in the late 90s without owning a N64.

And you paid the equivalent of $100 for those games. Not even modern games are that expensive. Carts were a bad idea for the consumer, but when has Nintendo ever given the consumer what they're paying for? Prime example is the Wii.

[tomaitheous]

and many more disagree with you.

Oh really? Let me add some comments to that list.

Super Mario 64 ; good
Star Fox 64 ;crap
Donkey Kong 64 ;crap
Smash Bros ;crap
Banjo Kazooie ;crap
Mortal Kombat Trilogy ;crap
Killer Instinct ;crap
Goldeneye ;I'll give you this one. This was a blast.
Perfect Dark ; crap
Resident Evil 2 ; Had it for PS1. Beat it on PS1. By the time it hit n64, it was old/been there done that.

You couldn't played that many great games in the late 90s without owning a N64.

I could have and I did. I didn't "own" an N64, but I did borrow my brothers for a long time. The only three games that I cared for were SM64,Zelda:OOT(the other one sucked bad), and Golden Eye. I'm sure there were a few others that I can't remember off the top of my head (iirc Cruising USA was nice, but the arcade was better).

Carts were more expensive for the developers, Nintendo themselves, and iirc the customer too in some/most instances. There's a reason why developers stayed away from the n64, unlike the SNES and NES. And it wasn't all "Nintendo's bullshit bullying practice about licensing". That was long over with by 2nd half SNES era.

Sure, you could have larger carts... and it would have cost a hell of a lot more too. FF7 on cart for n64 would have been a joke. I also remember Tony Hawk on n64 had weak-ass music. If storage wasn't such an issue, then why did big N develop that funky-ass wanna-be zip drive? Oh wait... storage. Yeeeaaahhh.

Hey, you love n64. Sure, I get that. Probably/maybe you grew up with one too. But it doesn't change facts. Nintendo should have went with some sort of CD (proprietary or otherwise). And to customers/gamers at the time/era, they(nintendo) were seen as "behind the times" for using carts. Well.. fanboys argued otherwise. But those were just silly fanboys. Nintendo president could take a shit, spray paint it gold, and N'fans would still buy/defend it.

Funny, cause now it's reverse for Nintendo and Sony. DS is perfect with cart/card media and PSP suffers from its disc media/drive.

[Chilly Willy]

Funny, cause now it's reverse for Nintendo and Sony. DS is perfect with cart/card media and PSP suffers from its disc media/drive.

I wouldn't go that far - DS uses little memsticks because their games are tiny compared to the PSP. Most PSP demos dwarf the full release of DS games. That's because DS is for little kids, while the PSP is for gamers.

[gamegenie]

Oh really?

yeah really

Let me add some comments to that list.

spare me, your argument is weak here. You're only against it because you did'n't own one.

Carts were more expensive for the developers, Nintendo themselves, and iirc the customer too in some/most instances. There's a reason why developers stayed away from the n64, unlike the SNES and NES. And it wasn't all "Nintendo's bullshit bullying practice about licensing". That was long over with by 2nd half SNES era.


.

that argument that carts were expensive to consumers is bogus. I paid the same price if not cheaper for my N64 carts the same price I'm paying for 360 games today.

[tomaitheous]

I wouldn't go that far - DS uses little memsticks because their games are tiny compared to the PSP. Most PSP demos dwarf the full release of DS games. That's because DS is for little kids, while the PSP is for gamers.

Castlevania DoS, PoR, and OoE aren't for little kids. I know, 'cause I let my nieces try it out They rather play something easy like Super Mario 64 DS(which they own).

But I have both and I consider myself a gamer. My PSP just sits there on the shelf other than the occasional Capcom collect play through. I wish there was more titles for the thing, but there's just nothing out there, really. I've clocked much more hours on the DS than the PSP. DS is definitely a "gamer" system of the two IMO (having more games of interest to play on it). I'll be modding my PSP for emulation. It'll get some more use then.

[kool kitty89]

Resident Evil 2 puts that whole question to rest.


It could be done, it could still be done today at even larger memory sizes.

Did you completely miss this?

Yeah, but how much better could some of those game shave been with CD storage capacity (granted, with highly compressed data in ROM, the largest 32/64 MB -256/512 Mbit carts could compete somewhat with uncompressed CD storage, but at a high price), and how any more 3rd party developers/games would have taken interest with a chearper, less limiting media available?

Games like Rogue Squadron (taking up basicly the max CD capacity in the PC version) and, as you mentioned, RE2, could fit, compressed onto large cartridges, but while 32 or 64 MB is tiny compared to CD's, but would have been very expensive for ROM chips at the time, and quite expensive, and would have been unthinkable early in the N64's life. (hence why only 2 games actually used 64 MB carts and why they were released very late in the systems life)

Not only are discs cheaper to manufacture, but they're moch more flexible to produce than mask roms, seting up production and altering production volume being much, much easier.


You siting good software hardly prooves anything, just what could be dne using the limiting media. (in no way does it refute such games being even better on disc, except for load times; and neither does it prove that far more developers would have taken interest) Nintendo was top dog in Japan in the previous gen (NEC being the only major compeditor), won a close battle of sales aganst the Genesis, and came a close secon to the European Mega Drive. So there's no way they should have lost out as badly as the did to Sony, even with the late release of the N64. (and the aging SNES had still been doing pretty well in the mean time)

yeah really

spare me, your argument is weak here. You're only against it because you did'n't own one.


that argument that carts were expensive to consumers is bogus. I paid the same price if not cheaper for my N64 carts the same price I'm paying for 360 games today.

I am a proud N64 owner thank you very much (in fact my family was pretty much all Nintendo/PC, except for the 2600; didn't get into Sega stuff until recently, besides the couple freinds who owned a Genesis), and I was pretty young so I don't remember actual prices, but you've got to take inflation into account: http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl
Of course we almost bought everything used (got the SNES in '95 or '96 with a bunch of games, no N64 'till '99) so we never paid those kinds of prices, I think we got all of 3-4 new games on the N64, iirc it was just "Hey You Pikachu," Pokemon Stadium, Majora's Mask, and SSB (not sure on this one).



And either way, discs are cheaper, if a company can get away with charging the same price, the're just making that much more money.

The only thing I'm glad about the N64 using carts is that I don't have to worry about the drive wearing out. (having game saves on carts could go either way.

Oh really? Let me add some comments to that list.

Originally Posted by gamegenie
Super Mario 64 ; good
Star Fox 64 ;crap
Donkey Kong 64 ;crap
Smash Bros ;crap
Banjo Kazooie ;crap
Mortal Kombat Trilogy ;crap
Killer Instinct ;crap
Goldeneye ;I'll give you this one. This was a blast.
Perfect Dark ; crap
Resident Evil 2 ; Had it for PS1. Beat it on PS1. By the time it hit n64, it was old/been there done that.

I could have and I did. I didn't "own" an N64, but I did borrow my brothers for a long time. The only three games that I cared for were SM64,Zelda:OOT(the other one sucked bad), and Golden Eye. I'm sure there were a few others that I can't remember off the top of my head (iirc Cruising USA was nice, but the arcade was better).

Hmm, while the original list he chose only contains about 1/2 of any games I'd considder, I'd dissagree on Star Fox 64 (though I prefer SNES), Smash Bros (one of my favorites, didn't care for Melee that much though), Banjo Kazooie, and I really liked majora's Mask.

Practically any game by RARE was good, a large portion of N's 1st part ones as well, and Lucas Arts+Factor 5 had some awesome stuff. (graphically speaking, some of the best in Rogue Squadron and culminating in BFN)

Carts were more expensive for the developers, Nintendo themselves, and iirc the customer too in some/most instances. There's a reason why developers stayed away from the n64, unlike the SNES and NES. And it wasn't all "Nintendo's bullshit bullying practice about licensing". That was long over with by 2nd half SNES era.

Sure, you could have larger carts... and it would have cost a hell of a lot more too. FF7 on cart for n64 would have been a joke. I also remember Tony Hawk on n64 had weak-ass music. If storage wasn't such an issue, then why did big N develop that funky-ass wanna-be zip drive? Oh wait... storage. Yeeeaaahhh.

Yep, not only would carts cost more for an equivelent game, but to get the cost anywhere near reasonable (for the majority of the consoles life) there would be no room for prerended streaming cinematics or prerecorded streamed music. (which limited developers to real-time rendered cutscenes and music using the onboard sound hardware, not to mention more limited, lower quality, and more compressed voice samples)
While showing what the system's onboard audio hardware is capable of is cool interesting, much like hearing the Sega CD do things like Silpheed, arranged CD tracks would still have kicked them to the curb in sheer quality.

And that stupid N64 DD was realy a bad idea, the things only held up to 64 MB, were still more expensive to purduce than CD's, and the unit costed a ton. They'd have been better off subsidizing the larger (32/64 MB) carts instead of invensting in something like that. Had it been a disc drive using CD's (or similar propritary format), that would be another story, but 64 MB ZIP-like magnetic disks, come on. (using high capacity magnetic disks like some later ZIP incarnations or SuperDisk would be better, but still probably more expensive than using optical media)

[Chilly Willy]

that argument that carts were expensive to consumers is bogus. I paid the same price if not cheaper for my N64 carts the same price I'm paying for 360 games today.

The same price TODAY means you paid a LOT more then because of inflation. You paid the SAME PRICE for 16 MB of game as you do now for 4+ GB of game. That's more than 100X the material for the SAME PRICE. Nuf said...

Castlevania DoS, PoR, and OoE aren't for little kids. I know, 'cause I let my nieces try it out They rather play something easy like Super Mario 64 DS(which they own).

The scant handful of adult titles are the exception that proves the rule. The DS is a kid's toy, and that's exactly the market Nintendo focuses on with the once or twice yearly adult title to try to somehow convince fanbois that it's not a child's toy.

[tomaitheous]

The scant handful of adult titles are the exception that proves the rule. The DS is a kid's toy, and that's exactly the market Nintendo focuses on with the once or twice yearly adult title to try to somehow convince fanbois that it's not a child's toy.

I admit, the first year or two it didn't have enough games to my liking (mostly gimmicky touch screen crap). I brushed off the DS. So I bought a PSP instead and was happy for a little while. But is has Lynx syndrome. Out of all the crap for DS, the number of good tiles number much more than PSP. A sad fact, but still a fact.

DS has a ton of junk for it, but there are some decent titles to be had. It still comes out on top as the best hand held via game library. And new titles are actually coming out still, unlike PSP. Some titles:

Castlevania: DoS
Castlevania: PoR
Castlevania: OoE
Dragon Quest 4
Rocket Slime
Megaman ZX
Megaman ZX 2 (great games, not like those other crappy megaman games)
Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor
New Super Mario Bros.
Final Fantasy IV
Dragon Quest 5
Chrono Trigger
The Legendary Starfy (haven't played it, but looks cool)
Final Fantasy III
Yoshi's Island DS
Zelda: Phantom Hour glass (had it for over a year now, but haven't gotten around to playing it).

Some titles I haven't played but would pick up
Contra 4
Lunar Knights (DS)
Final Fantasy:CC: Ring of Fates (the GC FF:CC was cool action/adventure, so this might be good).
Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood (Sonic with quest elements)
Bangai-O Spirits (shooter by Treasure)
Nanostray 2 (looks like one badass shmup)
Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword
Mystery Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer (old school dungeon crawler by sega)
LEGO Star Wars: The Complete Saga (just like the console versions. Awesome series)
Princess Peach (actually played this for a little while, cool platformer)
Cookie & Cream (platformer)
Star Fox Command (looks interesting)
Lunar: Dragon Song
Puyo Pop Fever (played others in the series and they're addictive)
Bomberman (2005 version. Looks awesome. If I can only find a copy....)

Meh - too many to list. Not to mention imports from Japan. Really hope they bring over the Tales game from Japan.

[Da_Shocker]

It's the Duo no doubt about it. That was a system that really maximized its capabilities. Now if I base this off the US then there really isn't much that came out for the Duo here. And look at it like this. In Japan Nintendo didn't get to pull off that cart BS over there. Once they lost Square the Japanese people didn't give a rats ass about the N64 over there. Now over here Americans still cared enuff to buy about 20 million N64's. I never figured out how they pulled that off when the N64 library was never any better than the US library but I guess as long as you have a Mario and Zelda you are good to go then.

[Black_Tiger]

Super Mario 64
Star Fox 64
Donkey Kong 64
Smash Bros
Banjo Kazooie
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
Killer Instinct
Goldeneye
Perfect Dark
Resident Evil 2
and many more disagree with you.


You couldn't played that many great games in the late 90s without owning a N64.

If you disagree with people who don't like the N64 that's one thing. But dismissing all other consoles from the time, especially all combined together, only makes you out to be either a crazed fanboy or extremely ignorant.

Even most people who love the N64 will admit that there's a greater selection of quality games for Saturn and PSX and they also have many truly "great" games, not just the kind that you find to be great (like Mortal Kombat & Killer Instinct).

Appreciating a console doesn't have to mean shunning everything else and one thing being good doesn't mean that everything else can't be.

[gamegenie]

If you disagree with people who don't like the N64 that's one thing. But dismissing all other consoles from the time, especially all combined together, only makes you out to be either a crazed fanboy or extremely ignorant.

Even most people who love the N64 will admit that there's a greater selection of quality games for Saturn and PSX and they also have many truly "great" games, not just the kind that you find to be great (like Mortal Kombat & Killer Instinct).

Appreciating a console doesn't have to mean shunning everything else and one thing being good doesn't mean that everything else can't be.

I never said one thing being great.
PSX & N64 was a better combo. FACT.

[Black_Tiger]

I never said one thing being great.

I understand that your english isn't perfect, but that's how this quote reads-

You couldn't played that many great games in the late 90s without owning a N64.

PSX & N64 was a better combo. FACT.

What do you think that the PSX + N64 is a better combo than?

[gamescapeonline]

It's the Duo no doubt about it. That was a system that really maximized its capabilities. Now if I base this off the US then there really isn't much that came out for the Duo here. And look at it like this. In Japan Nintendo didn't get to pull off that cart BS over there. Once they lost Square the Japanese people didn't give a rats ass about the N64 over there. Now over here Americans still cared enuff to buy about 20 million N64's. I never figured out how they pulled that off when the N64 library was never any better than the US library but I guess as long as you have a Mario and Zelda you are good to go then.

That was a nice attempt at getting this thread back on topic! lol

Turbo Duo 4 LIFE!!

oh, and the N64 was a HUGE disappointment.

[kool kitty89]

Star Fox Command (looks interesting)

Meh - too many to list. Not to mention imports from Japan. Really hope they bring over the Tales game from Japan.

It would have been if not for it suffering from "touch screen syndrome," like some other early DS games (similar to over/missuse of Wii's motion controlls), it forces you to use the touch screen to do just about everyting, every single action button (x,y,a,b,l,r) plus the D-pad all do the same thing, fire the main weapon (bombs are touch-screen as well), that's it!!! There's no option for conventional controlls either (like some Wii games that misuse the controller and don't even offer the GC controller as an alternative)

I'm a fan of flight sims (from relaistic to arcade style) and a fan of the Star Fox seriese, but they simply sucked all the fun out of an otherwise pretty good game by doing this.
There are some other minor annoyances with some of the game structure, but it's all tolerable in comparison:
the character designs are questionable -too chibi-ish-
the voices are annoying -the original used giberish too, but it was good by comparison, these ones just sound too Animal Crossing-esque (which isn't a good thing; though you can optionally add your own voice samples and the games uses that to create the giberish; one of my brothers freinds had them all saying "die die die die die die die"

some of the plot is a bit confusing, and the multiple endings are a bit frustrating, though I like the idea of a branching story line with alternate conclusions, and it's handeled decently, though only a couple are very satisfying, the main one is acceptable so I guess that's what matters, and this system does increase replay value. (I was too frustrated with the controlls, but my little brother was able to put up with them to play through all the endings, though he still disliked the controll arangement)