SegaCD = Greatest CD add on?

[xelement5x]

The Sega-CD has 220 games. The PC Engine/Turbo-CD has around 400.

Yeah, in the US however the SegaCD was definitely the stronger console though. The US had about 160 titles released for the Sega CD, where there were only like 50 US titles for the Turbo CD I think.

However, the problem is the context of this poll. Are we talking about which did the best in a single market or internationally? Because in the US the Turbo CD/Duo was totally trounced by the Feka CD

[Drakon]

That's what bugs me about the turbografx cd, most of the stuff is japan exclusive and a lot of it is rpgs and stuff where you need to read to get the experience.

[Black_Tiger]

Yeah, in the US however the SegaCD was definitely the stronger console though. The US had about 160 titles released for the Sega CD, where there were only like 50 US titles for the Turbo CD I think.

However, the problem is the context of this poll. Are we talking about which did the best in a single market or internationally? Because in the US the Turbo CD/Duo was totally trounced by the Feka CD

All PC Engine CDs (except the handful of Arcade Card games) play on Turbo hardware as-is, unlike the Sega/Mega-CD. That's why so many people with Turbo-CDs/TurboDuos were playing PCE CD games bitd.

I don't think that this was ever intended to be a "which was most commercially successful in North America" or "which is the most powerful" type discussion, as there would be absolutely nothing to discuss.

That's what bugs me about the turbografx cd, most of the stuff is japan exclusive and a lot of it is rpgs and stuff where you need to read to get the experience.

That still leaves a hundred or two (or more) English friendly games. If only the English friendly games existed, would you still he complaining?

[kool kitty89]

Yeah, in the US however the SegaCD was definitely the stronger console though. The US had about 160 titles released for the Sega CD, where there were only like 50 US titles for the Turbo CD I think.

However, the problem is the context of this poll. Are we talking about which did the best in a single market or internationally? Because in the US the Turbo CD/Duo was totally trounced by the Feka CD

NEC did a crap job managing/marketing their platforms outside Japan . . . so the context here is definitely a huge factor.

Hell, in Europe, any NEC stuff would be import-only anyway since they never bothered expanding any further than North America. (somewhat ironic for the PCE, since NEC's marketing techniques used in Japan would have been far more applicable to Europe than the US -small countries, high population density, effective viral marketing, etc -keeping the original PCE form factor probably would have been a plus for Europe as well)

[smasher]

I LOVE the sega cd. I had one when I was younger. I only ever had a few games for it. Mine died years ago.

I found a sega cd at the local trading post last week. I bought it but the sound didn't work. So I had to take it back. They had 20 games there, most were a dollar a piece, some were two. I bought all of them.

Hoping to come across a working sega cd. Once I hit 50 posts I'll be hitting up the wanted section- I can't make my own topics yet!

[Team Andromeda]

TBH, the Jaguar itself probably played a role in Atari even getting that 40 million

I doubt it , more do with the patent.

the 32x outsold the jaguar by a massive amount, though

Not hard given the Jaguar was a total flop in Europe and Japan and didn't sell that great inthe USA. I bet even the likes of 3DO and CD32 sold better too

[kool kitty89]

I doubt it , more do with the patent.

Don't bother responding if you're going to do stuff like this . . . your response doesn't even contradict anything I said.

My claim was that the PR and funding from the Jaguar helped Sega complete the ongoing litigation more successfully than they could have otherwise.

Not hard given the Jaguar was a total flop in Europe and Japan and didn't sell that great inthe USA. I bet even the likes of 3DO and CD32 sold better too

Japan was obviously never going to happen unless Atari had licensed the system to a powerful domestic Japanese company.


And it was just about as much a flop in the US as Europe . . . that might not have been the case had Atari actually distributed to Europe remotely competently for the first year or so (probably would have had a better chance in Europe than any other region, honestly).


That's just one more marked area of their problems and screw-ups of the time. Be it management or stable funding, Atari Corp was in the pits by that point without any of the necessary components to pull it out . . . good management/leadership might have mitigated some of the other problems, but then again, lacking that was a big part of their problems in the first place with the whole downward spiral following 1988/89. (personally, I think Jack Tramiel's retirement in 1988 and Mike Katz leaving in early 1989 played huge roles in that shift of things -Jack wasn't around to hold up the competitive business and computer end of things, and Katz wasn't there to push the Entertainment division -managing the Lynx, addressing the huge hole in their console market created as the 7800 declined in 1989)

[Team Andromeda]

My claim was that the PR and funding from the Jaguar helped Sega complete the ongoing litigation more successfully than they could have otherwise

I doubt it . If SEGA really knew Atari was dead on their feet I doubt they would have paid 40 million, much less give Atari access to some of SEGA IP. SEGA would have just played the waiting games to see them go bust .
I think SEGA paid out, because they knew Atari had them by the balls over the Patient.

Japan was obviously never going to happen unless Atari had licensed the system

Slagging off the Japanese and making a huge play on USA and made in the USA wasn't going to win you support in Japan.

And it was just about as much a flop in the US as Europe

I'm not surprised given it was such a poor console with one of the worst game line ups and control pad in the history of consoles

[kool kitty89]

I doubt it . If SEGA really knew Atari was dead on their feet I doubt they would have paid 40 million, much less give Atari access to some of SEGA IP. SEGA would have just played the waiting games to see them go bust .
I think SEGA paid out, because they knew Atari had them by the balls over the Patient.

The stunt they did with the Jaguar was part of the front I was saying they put up, making them look more serious and stable than they were.
Seriously, with the financial and management situation Atari Corp was in in 1993, they very well may not have lasted until that litigation completed without imploding completely. (they had a skeleton crew of staff, in debt, next to no cache flow -computer sales virtually gone, Lynx not helping much either . . . they were on their last legs at that point, a shell of what Atari Corp had once been, and the investment windfall from the Jaguar made a huge difference at the time)

The only other possibility for keeping the company afloat longer would have been dipping into private funds (prior to the Jaguar hype, they couldn't get any significant investment funds), and investing private funds would have been a huge risk to the Tramiels . . . the very same risk they chose not to take when supporting the Jaguar later on.
And, honestly, by late 1993, Atari really wasn't worth investing in . . . it probably would have been better for all involved if they'd looked for someone interested in buying up the Jaguar chipset and maybe the Lynx at that point.

Slagging off the Japanese and making a huge play on USA and made in the USA wasn't going to win you support in Japan.

They didn't even make a huge play for the US at all . . . they made a rather anemic play that they managed to pass off as a "big" play. (the only contemporary company remotely close to Atari's situation was Commodore's, and Atari actually manged to outlast them for what that's worth )

But as to Japan . . . again, there was really no point in trying to do it by themselves. Attempting to find a licensee to take hold of it in that market would have been the only sensible thing to do . . . and no western console or computer market had ever succeeded in doing that before . . . and many had tried. (including Atari Inc) Even Microsoft had a ton of trouble breaking into Japan.

I'm not surprised given it was such a poor console with one of the worst game line ups and control pad in the history of consoles

You say that like one wasn't the direct cause of the other.

The design itself was great in many ways at the time . . . but hardware alone almost never makes or breaks a console design. It was everything else that was the main problems, and several of those exacerbated the flaws/quirks of the hardware itself.

So again, for a console with such crap management, funding, and overall market situation, I still think the software support is amazing. (a lot of average stuff, not bad but not really special, a few interesting games with arguable mass appeal, some pretty bad ones too, and then a few really well done technically impressive accomplishments from dedicated programmers)
And again, compared to the 7800's library given the far, far greater market pennetration that system had. (odd they waited so long to bring that one to Europe too though . . . certainly the opposite with the ST -which they were willing to suffer shortages in the US for in order to maintain stock in Europe in 1988)

[Drakon]

Yes I'd still complain, I'd want more games for it d@mnit!

[kool kitty89]

Yes I'd still complain, I'd want more games for it d@mnit!

Hey, you might still get some yet.

[shrap]

The Sega-CD has 220 games. The PC Engine/Turbo-CD has around 400.

I meant over here. Obviously Japan is a completely different story.

[Team Andromeda]

The stunt they did with the Jaguar was part of the front I was saying they put up, making them look more serious and stable than they were

I'm not so sure tbh. I just think they really had SEGA and it was better to pay and get it out of the way .

They didn't even make a huge play for the US at all

I remember some of the Atari PR team saying this was the console that was going to show the Japanese how to make a console and playing on how it was Atari and the Americans that knew consoles and invented them .

but hardware alone almost never makes or breaks a console design.

I'm not on about the design, but the controller and that can break a console in many ways and the Jaguar pad it horrible to hold and its button layout is a complete joke .

So again, for a console with such crap management, funding, and overall market situation, I still think the software support is amazing

I would differ . I was more impressed with what Atari was able to do with the Lynx myself

[kool kitty89]

I remember some of the Atari PR team saying this was the console that was going to show the Japanese how to make a console and playing on how it was Atari and the Americans that knew consoles and invented them.

That's exactly the sort of PR hype crap I was referring to before. They certainly claimed to be pushing things big time, but that was a facade. They didn't have anywhere close

I'm not on about the design, but the controller and that can break a console in many ways and the Jaguar pad it horrible to hold and its button layout is a complete joke .

You're the only person I know who feels that way, who has actually bothered to spend a lot of time playing the system.

I'll agree it looks a bit silly (mainly the keypad layout), and the limit of 3 action buttons was a problem, but the ergonomics and functionality of the controller are perfectly fine. In terms of holding the controller and using the d-pad and buttons, it's more comfortable for me than the SNES, Playstation (various), and 3DO (at least the Panasonic ones). Depending on the situation, it's more comfortable than the Saturn pads or MD pads too, but it really varies.
I spent hours playing Jaguar games with friends last year when I got the chance, and my only complaint about the ergonomics was that the finger depressions in the bottom weren't deep enough. (I have big hands, so my fingers were too long to rest there completely comfortably)

And, honestly, as far as action buttons go, Sega made a similar mistake keeping the old 3 button pad as the standard after introducing the 6 button controller. (that should have been a new standard, not an accessory)
The Jag pad is really close to being really good though . . . something like the Jag pro pad with most of the keypad cut away (maybe 4-6 aux keys) would have been ideal. (and cutting away that keypad area would improve the ergonomics and aesthetics too)

I've been over this all before though . . . there's been a lot of controller design preference discussions on the forums.

I would differ . I was more impressed with what Atari was able to do with the Lynx myself

In terms of software (for a handheld) over the 6+ year period the Lynx was active, I'd agree on that point. The Lynx certainly had its problems on the market (most of the technical ones shared with the GG . . . the rest down to marketing/management), but I'd say the library was a lot more competitive for its time than the 7800 or the Jaguar.

Of course, compared with the Jaguar, the Lynx had been present with Atari Corp in a much healthier time for the company. (it got released just as things started slipping down hill, and went along for the ride the whole way, unlike the 7800 that faded away just as that started, and the Jaguar that went to market after things were pretty much rock bottom . . . not to mention the computer side of things)

From a business PoV, if Atari Corp could have swung PR for the Lynx strongly enough to have anything close to the "wow" effect of the Jaguar in 1993, then that would have been a much smarter move. (also a much less crowded market to compete in, especially after Sega dropped out)
Not sure how they could have pushed hype like that though.

Of course, if they'd managed any number of things better in general from '89-93, then the situation would have been quite different anyway.

[Black_Tiger]

The Jaguar pad works fine for the games I've played. It's cool having the keypad for optional buttons, like an Intellivision.