Throwing Money Down the Drain!

[Iron Lizard]

I used to be an emulator junky. I always would rather have the real thing but sometimes it not possible. I had my computer hooked up to the TV and it actually worked well. I also had adapter so I could use my six button. I don't mess around much with them anymore though. It just seems like such a pain in the ass. I also get a component connection with my PS2 so things like Metal Slug Anthology, R-types, Capcom Classics look far better then my PC's crappy compos(h)ite connection and its much easier to load everything.

[17daysolderthannes]

Sometimes I think you guys disagree with me for the sake of disagreeing. Jeez.

Ya know, I get that alot too...I think its in the forum rules:

"every poster must disagree with the thread starter until 15 posts have elapsed, then one must post agreeing with the starter and the immediately leave and never return to the thread, but the defender's single post must be argued until the thread is derailed entirely"


lol

back on topic:

You guys are just finding out about this stuff?

Shit, almost every system I own is loaded to the teeth with ROMs

I can tell you now, the main reason I started collecting retro games is BECAUSE virtual console was such a rip off. Not only that, but its very restrictive and you can't even use save states or graphics filters, etc. Hell, some emulators even let you use overclocking to play games like 2 player Sonic 2 or Viewpoint with no slowdown, but not VC. I can very easily get the most accurate emulator and full rom set for any system in about 10-20 minutes depending on download speed.

So why buy vintage games when I can bootleg them no problem? Ehhh, a bunch of reasons. For one, saying you own a cartridge of the game is 1000X more authoritative than saying you have a ROM of it. For another, there is no denying you own that game and are entitled to play it any way you want, unlike VC or XBOX Live Arcade that can jank your Romz at any time and leave you with nothing if your system breaks or their database gets messed up somehow (fuck download-only games). Owning the real hardware lets you experience the game exactly as it was when the system was still new, with the same graphical imperfections and strange glitches. Also, vintage games are generally cheap so you don't really lose much. I think the total price of all of my video game stuff is STILL less than the cost of a turbo kit for my car, and I get WAY more enjoyment out of it.

The only emulator I use religiously is MAME since it is completely unrealistic to actually try to own all the PCBs of arcade games you would want. Anything remotely desirable (and working) will easily fetch $100 and then some of them have problems like dying capacitors or even worse suicide batteries that will render it inoperable if it dies. The only arcade remotely reasonable to collect for is the Neo Geo, which I will do someday when I have the money and room for an MVS.

If anyone is interested, these are the emulators I would recommend for best accuracy and features (for PC):

NES - Nestopia

SNES - SNES9X or ZSNES (your pick, there are strengths and weaknesses to both)

Genesis - Kega Fusion (don't forget to download the graphics plug-ins!)

MAME - version .126, some may disagree, but I can tell you v .130 is a BITCH to find working Neo Geo bios files for, and I know you can use renamers, but I still have yet to find one that works on the networked computers I'm using. If you have a Mac, seek out MAME OS X, its the shit and I find works BETTER than the PC version.



If you are thinking of modding a system, consider these options:

Dreamcast - by far the cheapest route at about $20 (just make sure its made before Oct 2000 or it won't read backups), but at the same time it is hard as hell to learn how to make your own emulator discs unless you download a pre-made .cdi file with all the ROMs already (burn with Disk Juggler). However, besides SMS and NES, the emulators SUCK for Dreamcast. The only half decent Genesis emulator is called Obsidian and the sound sucks and its technically Warez so you can only download it on torrents with whatever games it comes with. Dream SNES is slow as shit on everything except Donkey Kong, Mario World, and RPGs.

PSP - pretty easy to find someone to mod it, if you can't find someone, buy a Pandora battery online (dealextreme.com has them for $7 shipped) and an extra Memory Card and download Rain's MMS Maker to prep the card for modding. The accuracy is OK, and if you have a 2001 you can get Progressive scan output to a TV (mega portable). Good if you need something portable. Best of all, you can save money buy buying a PSP with a broken UMD drive.

XBOX (original) - the only thing this god forsaken piece of shit does well, and boy does it do it well. Arguably better than a PC with an S-Video output, a modded XBOX will play just about anything N64 and prior. NES, SNES, and Genesis are PERFECT and have a boatload of customization options. With 8 GB of storage space, you can store quite a bit of ROMs (probably get it complete). The only downside is that transferring the files is pretty difficult for no good reason (in my experience) because you have to use Ethernet connections and the IP never wants to connect. But if you can get it working, this thing is f'n amazing, just remember to buy a different controller because the standard XBOX controller SUCKS.

[17daysolderthannes]

OMG, All I am saying is that people shouldn't waste there money if they can just download NESTERDC or any other Rom collection and just burn it and play it on the DC. No mod necessary.

You don't need to track down any roms, THEY are already built into the file.

Look!

ROM Linking's not allowed!

800 + games

Works great.

Its just funny that you can fool people into purchasing anything if they don't know any better.

Well, there is the whole "legality" thing, which IMO the law is ridiculous and should be changed, but that was covered in another thread that was largely met with "la la la la la can't hear you."

That said, VERY few people that buy cartridges don't know about emulators, in fact, the most avid collectors usually will have at least a couple systems that can play emulators or AT LEAST have emulators on their computers. Vintage NES games are more akin to trading cards than games nowadays. The funny thing is that people that are into games enough to know about emulators are also "in the know" enough to know that you can fix/clean vintage games and systems. Most people assume a blinking NES is broken forever and that Wii VC is the only way they will ever play those games again.

It always has been and still is my opinion that older games SHOULD be enjoyed for free as a history lesson. Playing Sonic 2 for free isn't keeping anyone from buying Halo Wars, I ASSURE you of that. I have discovered and bought more games due to emulation than any advertisement, magazine, or website. If it wasn't for emulation, I would've never known or cared about the excellent Fatal Fury and King of Fighters series, of which I now own 3 compilations and a stand-alone game for PS2, and I one day plan to own a good bit of them on MVS cartridges.

[InternalPrimate]

I just want Edge to read this again:

I agree with you that NesterDC is the tits. When I first downloaded NesterDC SE, I went crazy with that thing. I LOVED it. Since then, I've just kind of cooled on the idea. I like my NES box controller (which hurts my hands with extended play) more than my DC controller. It's just a matter of preference, that's all. If anything, you should use the DC's amazing capabilities to check out some classics you otherwise wouldn't.

Just wanted to make it clear that I am NOT arguing with Edge. This time

[TheEdge]

I guess it all depends on your circumstance. Like I said in my other post, I don't have room for my NES so the next best thing is a NES Emulator on my Dreamcast. I'm also waiting for a MAME emulator for the DC as well and they just uploaded an Atari 7800 Emulator as well a few days ago (Roms included, of course!)



Eitherway, I would suggest, which all this thread really is, to not waste your cash and get price gouged on your virtual consoles. Do some leg work, dust off the DC, and get burning.

[MrMatthews]

I'd consider this for arcade titles. However, I have kind of a block on ROMs because I question their quality. If I'm not getting a 99% accurate emulation, I don't want to bother. At least with the VC (which will start offering arcade titles shortly), you can read reviews.

[TheEdge]

I'd consider this for arcade titles. However, I have kind of a block on ROMs because I question their quality. If I'm not getting a 99% accurate emulation, I don't want to bother. At least with the VC (which will start offering arcade titles shortly), you can read reviews.

Your right, Some of the roms don't work exactly the way they should. I have noticed that many of the driving games are screwed up (I.E. Rad Racers) which pisses me off to no end. Also some titles don't even load up so I agree its a hit or miss sometimes.

If you want a specific game to run perfectly and the emulators are not working then I would definitely say drop the cash on the Virtual Console but if you want more bang for your buck, I would definitely try the DC emulators first.

[Gentlegamer]

If the basic argument is "emulation is better than buying Virtual Console games that you don't really own and can't resell," I agree.

The cost factor comparison is also evident in the various Sega Genesis compilations and the individual game cost through the VC.

[TheEdge]

I think the NeoGeo, Genesis, Capcom, Midway, and Taito compilations are well worth it mainly because you have a physical copy that was developed well.

When I finally figure out where I am going to put my PS2 I'm definitely picking them up. I heard though that some of their emulation isnt 100% but that may be just a rumor.

[MrMatthews]

When I finally figure out where I am going to put my PS2 I'm definitely picking them up. I heard though that some of their emulation isnt 100% but that may be just a rumor.

I can personally confirm this, at least with the two mega man compilations (which I have for the GameCube). The differences aren't detrimental to the gameplay at all, but I definitely encountered some "WTF" moments when I ran through the classic games.

[David J.]

For the people who bitch about their pc looking like ass on a TV... get a good ATI video card that supports component/HDMI, what has you...

My ATI supports component, composite, Svideo, VGA, DVI, HDMI... shit.

[Knuckle Duster]

Ya know, I get that alot too...I think its in the forum rules:

"every poster must disagree with the thread starter until 15 posts have elapsed, then one must post agreeing with the starter and the immediately leave and never return to the thread, but the defender's single post must be argued until the thread is derailed entirely"


lol

back on topic:

You guys are just finding out about this stuff?

Shit, almost every system I own is loaded to the teeth with ROMs

For the most part I assume no, but if you were to look at anything TheEdge posted, you would think this because he's basically furthering the "noob standard" philosophy which usually comes across as "zomg! look at this, i can steal gamez! lol DLC suxorz!" And I can agree with where he is coming from, I just think he's an idiot for at least 3 times recommending and at least twice LINKING to a site which clearly gos against this:

"• While emulation discussion is permitted due to its importance in the areas of archiving and historical documentation of the gaming industry, no ISO trading, ROM begging, bootlegging, copyright infringement, or assistance with any of these is permitted – for example warez FTP site details. Out of respect to retrogaming stores, game developers, and growing legal concerns, discussion about the obtaining of illegal ROMs is prohibited. Illegal ROMs are defined as any ROM, regardless of age, that has been copyrighted in the past 100 years. Threads discussing the location or acquiring of ROMs and/or illegal (pirated) software will be locked per the discretion of a forum moderator or administrator. As companies continue to release retro games through virtual releases or retro gaming packs for modern gaming systems, the threat of getting a cease-and-desist order grows. In order to preserve the gaming community we've all worked so hard to build, we ask that you respect Sega-16 and refrain from the discussion of illegal ROMs. It doesn't matter what is legal in your country, there are no exceptions to this rule.

Violators will be punished with temporary or permanent banning, depending on the severity of the offense."

Which IS in the forum rules.

I hate 'stupid' pirates. Can't you tell?

XBOX (original) - the only thing this god forsaken piece of shit does well, and boy does it do it well. Arguably better than a PC with an S-Video output, a modded XBOX will play just about anything N64 and prior. NES, SNES, and Genesis are PERFECT and have a boatload of customization options. With 8 GB of storage space, you can store quite a bit of ROMs (probably get it complete). The only downside is that transferring the files is pretty difficult for no good reason (in my experience) because you have to use Ethernet connections and the IP never wants to connect. But if you can get it working, this thing is f'n amazing, just remember to buy a different controller because the standard XBOX controller SUCKS.

The xbox does not 'suck' because you do not know how to configure DHCP or Static IP addresses. Something a router would do with a guided piece of software anyway. They usually come with ridiculously easy to use install disks. Even if that isn't the case, It's still extremely easy to drop an xbox on a network, turn it on, and access it from a PC. You sound like you're just biased against it.

In actual fairness it already emulates most platforms that the DC can't handle, and can even run Mame exceptionally good. It's off the shelf nature makes it cheap to replace a hard drive, optical drive, and even add ram if you're a technically proficient.
Then there's the fact that you don't even need to crack it open for basic homebrew with a software modification when starting, icing on the cake.

It's controller's are USB derived, making them easy to hack for added keyboard/mice. It can run linux, and the XBMC software makes the overall package pretty much perfect for what you'd pay for it. No more than $50 used stock system, that can become a media player to stream AVI files off your network. Come on now.

[TheEdge]

^

Welcome to the year 2000. People play emulators. Get over it.

[Knuckle Duster]

^

Welcome to the year 2000. People play emulators. Get over it.

Ignorance is bliss?

I play emulators.
I don't however link to roms on forums for fairly obvious reasons.

You're an idiot.

[TheEdge]

Ignorance is bliss?

I play emulators.
I don't however link to roms on forums for fairly obvious reasons.

You're an idiot.

I think you need to grab a Orangeade Snapple and chill out. As I said before this is just logical and hopefully I can save some forum members some money with this idea.

I collect carts as well. I just purchased a truck load of them BUT I'm not going to toss $10 dollars into the wind on virutal console crap if I can get it for the DC for nothing.