Built to last ?

[Xangalore]

I feel very strongly that modern consoles not built to last as long as the older consoles. I'm on my 3rd Xbox but my Sega CD still works fine. Funny how that works. On top of that, the 360 is way LOUDER than any of these older consoles. I seriously doubt I'll have a working 360 in 5 to 10 years.

[kool kitty89]

3rd orignial Xbox, or 360? That's a bit unusual, those tend to be pretty reliable if not abused, in part due to the large number of off the shelf components used.

And a Sega CD model 1 or 2? (the M1 obviously a bit more vulnerable to failure with the greater number of moving parts)

[kool kitty89]

And I thought the main problem with the SNES was that it was made of horrible plastic that turned yellow due to oxygen, giving it a cat-piss yellow color. BLEH.

I think some had a revised audio board wich may have had some long term quality issues. (or there may have been multiple revisions, not sure if this includes the SNES 2/Jr. though I'd avoid that due to lack of S-Video)

Yes many yellow on the surface. I've got one NES (toaster) and SNES with the top portion of the csing completely yellowed, but next to none on the bottom half. This would not be due to sun exposure as only the fronts were exposed to it for long periods. (and the bottom portions on the front haven't yellowed)

It seems to vary from console to console, just defects in the plastic quality I guess. I've got a second, less used NES (my grandpa's old one) that's got no yellowing at all. Bot of mine are 1989 models from the "Power Set" with Zapper+Power Pad and Mario/Duck-Hunt/Track Meet.

Oddly my Super GameBoy has also yellowed a little on the front.


Systems will yellow from prolonged sun exposure too, and will also become brittle, eventually to the point of discintegrating.

[17daysolderthannes]

I feel very strongly that modern consoles not built to last as long as the older consoles. I'm on my 3rd Xbox but my Sega CD still works fine. Funny how that works. On top of that, the 360 is way LOUDER than any of these older consoles. I seriously doubt I'll have a working 360 in 5 to 10 years.

Its not that they aren't built to last, its that there are so many more necessary parts to keep newer systems running properly. An NES had no cooling fans and you could leave it on for days and it wouldn't even get warm. An XBOX 360 heatsink will burn your hand after 5 minutes of running. The latest processors are basically just overclocked versions of what was available a few years ago, and with overclocking comes more heat, and with more heat becomes more liability and chance for failure. Its like comparing a light bulb to a car, as that's pretty much the difference in complexity between an NES and an XBOX 360/PS3.

[Chris]

I've seen that cat-pee color numerous times. What causes this to happen to some and not others? Exposure to sun? I picked up an SNES a few weeks back and its color is perfect, but if there's anything I can do to maintain that, I'd like to know, as that yellowing looks *#&%ing horrible.

There's actually a really in depth article about this at Vintage Computing and Gaming. Read this article and it will answer all your questions as to why the SNES turns yellow and why some part of the system and some systems are affected in different ways.


As for the topic in this thread, I haven't had many problems with any of my hardware, my NES stopped working twice, the first time it was the flashing screen and red light, I took it to Nintendo and they cleaned it and it worked fine for about six more years, then it started doing the same thing again so I bought a new one.
My RF switch stopped working for my model 1 Genesis about 5 years ago, just showed snow on the screen.

and about 5 years ago I saw a model 1 Genesis at Value Village. It was expensive at 30 dollars but I'd never seen one in such good shape. No dust in the grooves, not a scratch, nothing. I thought for sure it would work but when I got it home, I could hear the game playing, but there was no picture, just snow. It came with two after market controllers and one had velcro on the bottom, this makes me wonder if this was a store display unit which might explain why it was so pristine[if it was kept in a dispay where customers could'nt touch it] and why there was no original controller with it[ got worn out from so many people using it]. If this was a store display, it might explain why the video did'nt work, I could see something going wrong with a system being left on 8 or more hours a day for years.
Although I once talked to a guy who has a Vectrex in his resturaunt for patrons to play with and he said he leaves it on 24 hours a day 365 days a year, but then said once in a while he turns it off. I don't know if this guy is full of shit or not, but why would he lie? If it's true I think this is amazing for a game system that old to not break down after being left on constantly, and what about the screen, would'nt that stop working after a couple of years?

[kool kitty89]

Flashing screen NES = 10NES lockout chip suckage. Disabling said chip is simple = Awsome!

[sketch]

There's actually a really in depth article about this at Vintage Computing and Gaming. Read this article and it will answer all your questions as to why the SNES turns yellow and why some part of the system and some systems are affected in different ways.

Thanks for the reference. The article was pretty informative, although it suggests that there is a fairly wide range of quality to the SNES plastic (as some parts or even whole models won't discolor while others do). Also interesting that the mini doesn't discolor (or at least, I haven't seen one turn yellow - someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Guess I'll try and keep mine out of the light. It generally doesn't get too hot where I live. I hope to avoid the cat pee "feature" of the SNES.

[17daysolderthannes]

Thanks for the reference. The article was pretty informative, although it suggests that there is a fairly wide range of quality to the SNES plastic (as some parts or even whole models won't discolor while others do). Also interesting that the mini doesn't discolor (or at least, I haven't seen one turn yellow - someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Guess I'll try and keep mine out of the light. It generally doesn't get too hot where I live. I hope to avoid the cat pee "feature" of the SNES.

Either your SNES is going to yellow or it isn't, trying to dodge sunlight and heat sources isn't going to change anything. All of the late release model 1s (like mine) seem to be immune to the discoloration whereas the earlier ones always discolor. I have also seen a few games with partial discoloration.

Although I once talked to a guy who has a Vectrex in his resturaunt for patrons to play with and he said he leaves it on 24 hours a day 365 days a year, but then said once in a while he turns it off. I don't know if this guy is full of shit or not, but why would he lie? If it's true I think this is amazing for a game system that old to not break down after being left on constantly, and what about the screen, would'nt that stop working after a couple of years?

Pre-CD systems really aren't affected from being left on all day. As long as there are no moving parts during operation, you aren't doing any disservice by leaving it on. Look at televisions, I can name hundreds of places that have had TVs for years and leave them on open to close. There are only a handful of reason systems fail: age (inevitable degradation of components), abuse (the most common reason, douchebags not taking proper care of their system), and mechanical wear in the case of CD/DVD systems. The newest problem, however, is sheer heat generation in systems like the 360 or PS3. There is so much energy going through the processor that it immediately heats up like a stove and must be cooled properly and constantly at all times while running.

[kool kitty89]

Either your SNES is going to yellow or it isn't, trying to dodge sunlight and heat sources isn't going to change anything. All of the late release model 1s (like mine) seem to be immune to the discoloration whereas the earlier ones always discolor. I have also seen a few games with partial discoloration.

Well I'd still avoid direct sunlight as this could have a detrimental effect on a non self-yellowing console.

Interesting to note, I already mentioned I had one top-yellowed NES and one all gray. What's a little interesting is that they were both bought at the same time in the same sets, both 1989 models. But I guess that's just up to the batch of plastic used. (though the yellow ones top seems to have only slightly yellowed toward the corners internally)

What is a bit odd is that it seems like almost all the yellowing systems have only the top half of the shell yellow, not the base, and usually not the cart slot or rim...

[muchomojo]

The only system I've had die on me was a PS2, and I don't own any systems newer than this. As far as older systems go, I tend to only have problems with ac adapters or rf/av cords. The actual systems tend to work fine after a good cleaning.

[Chris]

Flashing screen NES = 10NES lockout chip suckage. Disabling said chip is simple = Awsome!

I'M not sure what this means, can you explain?

[Chris]

QUOTE:Pre-CD systems really aren't affected from being left on all day. As long as there are no moving parts during operation, you aren't doing any disservice by leaving it on. Look at televisions, I can name hundreds of places that have had TVs for years and leave them on open to close. There are only a handful of reason systems fail: age (inevitable degradation of components), abuse (the most common reason, douchebags not taking proper care of their system), and mechanical wear in the case of CD/DVD systems. The newest problem, however, is sheer heat generation in systems like the 360 or PS3. There is so much energy going through the processor that it immediately heats up like a stove and must be cooled properly and constantly at all times while running.[/QUOTE]

I guess I've always thought that the more you use something, the faster it will wear out. I'm starting to understand that this may not be the case with game systems.
Thanks for the information.

[gamevet]

QUOTE:Pre-CD systems really aren't affected from being left on all day. As long as there are no moving parts during operation, you aren't doing any disservice by leaving it on. Look at televisions, I can name hundreds of places that have had TVs for years and leave them on open to close. There are only a handful of reason systems fail: age (inevitable degradation of components), abuse (the most common reason, douchebags not taking proper care of their system), and mechanical wear in the case of CD/DVD systems. The newest problem, however, is sheer heat generation in systems like the 360 or PS3. There is so much energy going through the processor that it immediately heats up like a stove and must be cooled properly and constantly at all times while running.

I guess I've always thought that the more you use something, the faster it will wear out. I'm starting to understand that this may not be the case with game systems.
Thanks for the information.

In the most ideal situations, leaving any electronic device on is not a problem, but you also have to deal with environments that have power surges. I'd bought a Sony 32" Wega HD set, that was a demo unit, and it died about 2 years later. Obviously, the environment it was in was not entirely stable.

[17daysolderthannes]

I guess I've always thought that the more you use something, the faster it will wear out. I'm starting to understand that this may not be the case with game systems.
Thanks for the information.

There's a line between wearing out from use and wearing out from neglect. CD/DVD systems have lubricants that will dry out if they aren't used, but at the same time you'll grind the gears to dust if you use them too much. I would say the best way to "preserve" a system would be to use it about once a month or so, but more importantly that you keep it away from moisture and dirt/dust (keep it the fuck out of attics and garages, I can't stand people that do that). I'll sometimes go a couple years without using a system and it will be fine, but, again, most systems prior to the PSX don't have heat issues so they don't really suffer from being left on.

[kool kitty89]

I'M not sure what this means, can you explain?

It means the flashing problem is caused by the overly sensitive 10NES lockout system of the original NES (absent in the NES 2 and all Japanese versions)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10NES
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Galee-GCTqo

The other problem is the crappy 72 pin ZIF connector used that tends to stop working, though often a simple cleaning or polishing (with emery board or fine sandpaper -500+ grit) are enough to fix it. Otherwise there are replacement connectors available pretty cheaply.

note that most of these aftermarket connectors are designed to function without the cartridge depressed, with much tighter fitting pins, loading the carts into the pown position may put excess stress on the circut board. (so just don't push the games down) They do tend to work a lot better than the originals, but if cleaning/polishing works I'd stick with that. (and either way I'd disable the locout chip, simple, nearly fool-proof, and still advantageous no matter the condition of the connector) A significant portion of the NES 2's reliability comes from the lack of the chip, not just the toploading mechanism.