SNES

[StRiDA CoL]

OMG! :lol:

thats too funny Vorty Mc Vort Vort :lol:

dude, u friggin critisize everything, that u dont like, dude u gotta stop, we kno its your opion, but man, u dont have to go on 3 page rants about stuff.

[lordofduct]

I used to fight about this stuff... back in 1993

[16bitter]

Back to CIV, a little team that would later create the company known as Treasure gave us this masterpiece, as well as the creation of the Contra series as a whole -- it's been so long since I've played the NES games that I can't be sure of whether I consider Contra III their best work of the series.

Here's a question: Gunstar or any Contra game?

[Drixxel]

I do grossly enjoy me that there Contra III, but Gunstar might take it. There are some truly brilliant moments in Contra III.. I remember being so impressed the first time I saw that huge robot skeleton rip through the wall, and riding on that missile.. whoohoo. But really, the whole game is awesome.. I even like the top-down stages, although they obviously aren't a highlight. Hmm.. maybe Contra wins this. Bahh.. why choose.

[j_factor]

I'd take Contra Hard Corps over Gunstar Heroes.

[Obviously]

Gunstar vs. any Contra game, Contra wins. Gunstar is a legend in its own right though.

[Dartagnan1083]

Back to CIV, a little team that would later create the company known as Treasure gave us this masterpiece, as well as the creation of the Contra series as a whole -- it's been so long since I've played the NES games that I can't be sure of whether I consider Contra III their best work of the series.

Here's a question: Gunstar or any Contra game?

You obviously have no Idea what you're talking about.
Treasure did not exist as a team before Gunstar Heroes. . .that is a common missconception though. The original members of treasure (all but 1 of which are still at treasure) originally worked on different projects. While as many as 3 of them may have worked on the same project at once at konami. . .they did not do it as a whole.

your proof is here
http://sfkosmo.classicgaming.gamespy.../treasure.html

you can look up information on all the konami games connected to treasure. . .as well as many games falsely atributed to them (which amounts to about 90% of the Contra series).

although you may want to wait untill IGN lifts their new server restrictions (all of the classicgaming network is tied up now).

It's not like treasure is incapable of making garbage either. . .
(*COUGH* Stretch Panic *COUGH* Silpheed II *COUGH* Wario World *COUGH*).

But to answer your question;
Gunstar almost renders the entire Contra franchise useless, as does Metal Slug.

[j_factor]

Gunstar vs. any Contra game, Contra wins. Gunstar is a legend in its own right though.

So you think Contra Force and Legacy of War are better than Gunstar Heroes?

[16bitter]

Back to CIV, a little team that would later create the company known as Treasure gave us this masterpiece, as well as the creation of the Contra series as a whole -- it's been so long since I've played the NES games that I can't be sure of whether I consider Contra III their best work of the series.

Here's a question: Gunstar or any Contra game?

You obviously have no Idea what you're talking about.

I have many sources on that, and it has always been known that Treasure was a team within Konami that broke ranks to do original content.

If I'm wrong then that's because many sources are wrong, but I'd like to know what source you're working with that trumps all I've read on the subject.

your proof is here
http://sfkosmo.classicgaming.gamespy.../treasure.html

That leads nowhere. Certainly not to any content to prove your point.

although you may want to wait untill IGN lifts their new server restrictions (all of the classicgaming network is tied up now).

What's a link that doesn't work prove?

It's not like treasure is incapable of making garbage either. . .
(*COUGH* Stretch Panic *COUGH* Silpheed II *COUGH* Wario World *COUGH*).

Yes, we get it: you hate Castlevania IV with a passion. I wasn't arguing that.

BTW, I guess by your standard this post makes you a...ahem...douchebag. Hey, you asked for it.

[Obviously]

I'm not trying to burst your bubble because I'm a fan of Castlevania IV but...

No members of Treasure worked on Castlevania IV.

To quote the Wikipedia...

"Contrary to popular belief, no significant employees were involved in the development of Contra: Hard Corps, Super Castlevania IV, or Tiny Toon Adventures: Buster Busts Loose. However, one to three identifiable employees were involved in the following Konami games:"

This is the list of Konami games that Treasure employees were involved with before the formation of Treasure. And by that I mean one or maybe a few more, not the entire team.

* Aliens (Arcade)
* Axelay (SNES)
* The Castlevania Adventure (Game Boy)
* Castlevania II: Belmont's Revenge (Game Boy)
* Contra (Game Boy)
* Contra III: The Alien Wars (SNES)
* Rocket Knight Adventures (Genesis)
* The Simpsons (Arcade)
* Tiny Toon Adventures: Babs' Big Break (Game Boy)

They were also contracted by Konami to make Gradius V

[16bitter]

Wikipedia is not undeniable fact in the least. There are many inaccuracies involved with them as a reference site.

Oh, and here's an interview that contradicts that specifically:

Q: When did you start Treasure?
A: We officially started the company on June 19, 1992.
Q: What was the reason for starting your own company?
A: I have dreamt of owning my own company since I was young, then after
spending 4 years at Konami I knew this industry was where I belonged, so I
decided to start my own development house.
Q: Where did you get the name Treasure?
A: (Laughing) We want to be a treasure to this industry!
Q: How big is your staff?
A: So far 18 people.
Q: Out of that 18, how many are programmers?
A: Almost everyone here is a programmer.
Q: What are their backgrounds?
A: Almost everyone is from Konami. Their previous titles include Qix,
Bucky O'Hare, and The Simpsons for arcade, and Castlevania 4, Contra 3,
and Axelay for the Super Famicom.
Q: What are their average ages.
A: Our youngest is 19 and our oldest is 37, average is about 27.
Q: What made you decide to leave Konami?
A: Basically, Konami is a huge company, so you cannot create games
freely. Konami's big titles are TMNT, Castlevania, etc... I just couldn't
stand making more sequels, but in order to drive sales sequels must always
be made. When I presented my idea for Gunstar Heroes, they said "no, it
will not sell." You see, they only want the sure thing because they are
such a high profile company.
Q: So have you been able to develop games unrestricted now that you have
Treasure?
A: Not 100%, because we are now working for Sega, also a huge company,
but we do have much more freedom and can do pretty much anything we want,
within reason of course.
Q: Konami is a big 3rd party for Nintendo, so why are you now making
games for Sega?
A: I've always been fascinated with hardware. People are constantly
comparing Mega Drive to Super Famicom, saying that the Super Famicom has
more colours, etc... but the Mega Drive has a 68000 processor, which is
very easy for programmers to work with. I was a programmer for years,
making games for the Super Famicom, and I can tell you, the hardware is a
pain in the butt. If consumers look at a still shot, they may think the
Super Famicom is better, but actually, if you tried to put Gunstar Heroes
onto the Super Famicom, there would be no way. See those bosses? On the
Super Famicom they would slow way down, that movement requires so much
computation. It could only be done on the Sega hardware.
Q: How many colours do you have on screen in Gunstar?
A: Actually, there are 64, but we can make it look like much more by
adding shadow and lighting effects, etc... when you look at Sonic or
Gunstar, you would think that they display more than 64 colours, but they
don't, we just make it look like more. In my opinion, the colour looks as
good as the Super Famicom. We can also make it appear that 3 to 4 screens
are present, although you can supposedly only display 2 (background and
foreground) at once, as I said the hardware is very easy to work with.
All things considered, the 68000 is a very good CPU allowing room for
experimentation while the Super Famicom hardware limits you to their
design standards. Scaling and rotation can be implemented in the Sega
software, forget it on the Super Famicom.
Q: Do you have any plans for cd-rom?
A: Right now, there aren't that many systems out there, but we are
interested in this new hardware. There are no plans now, but perhaps in a
year. But then again, 32-bit is on the way....
Q: Actually, that was my next question. Talk of Sega's 32-bit Saturn
project is all over our offices, what have you heard?
A: All I can say is that it's coming next year and I am looking forward
to it. I am more interested in developing 32-bit than cd-rom.
Q: Since we're on the subject of 32-bit, how about 3DO, will you be
developing games for it?
A: So far we have no plans, at this time we do not have enough employees
to start on a new format. We have just finished our first Sega title and
we have a lot of ideas left over. You see, if you instantly follow new
hardware, a game's substance will be neglected. For instance, 32-bit will
have incredible graphics and fluid full motion, etc... this has nothing
to do with game substance, it is only cosmetics. We will take 16-bit Sega
to it's limits, than pursue 32-bit.
Q: Do you consider the US market when you decide on a project?
A: Of course! Sega is bigger in the US than in Japan, so we absolutely
consider it.
Q: How long did it take to develop Gunstar Heroes?
A: We had the idea, then waited three months for our development system.
From that point, it took seven months.
Q: Were all 18 staff members involved?
A: No, not everyone. We divided into into two teams, one for Gunstar and
one for our McDonald's game. At that time we had 12 people, so six went
to each; two designers, two programmers, and two sound people. We worked
with a vengeance!
Q: Gunstar is 8 megabit, did you compress it?
A: Yes, a lot. It is actually over 16 megabit, play to the end and
you'll see what I mean.
Q: How is the game going over in Japan?
A: Great! As an original game, we rank 4th in the major Japanese
magazines as the most wanted game, behind Street Fighter 2, Shining Force
2, and Virtua Racing.
Q: If you were to rate (Gunstar), what would you give it?
A: There are things we have left over, so I would say 80%. If I give it
100%, that would mean we could never top it, but we can!
Q: Are you thinking about a sequel?
A: I wouldn't say no, but not really.
Q: Your next release is McDonald's (Treasureland). Why did you pick this
character?
A: We didn't, it's for Sega.
Q: How is it?
A: I think it's excellent.
Q: Okay, last two questions. Is there any comment you would like to make
about this industry?
A: Yes, lately all I see are sequels, or translations of popular arcade
games. It is really sad. Consumers are in pursuit of quality and
original game designs, but not many third parties are doing them. We are
going to develop original games only! To sum it up, we present ourselves
a challenge to do new things in the action platform category. We would
like to be the company that makes the Sega Mega Drive number one. We will
think of what would be the most fun, and then develop it.
Q: Any word for the US consumer?
A: We'll be making stupendous games like Gunstar Heroes, so please take
care of Treasure!

[Obviously]

That's the infamous GameFan interview which has inaccuracies. It's not known why he gave that answer but it's since been discovered no one in Treasure had anything to do with it. It's that interview that fueled popular belief. It's also that interview which spawned the false legend that Treasure would never make a sequel.

There's a reason GameFan went out of business and they're unabashed worshipping of Treasure was part of that reason.

[16bitter]

And where has it been proven?

Frankly, my nerd credentials may not be big enough for this debate.

At the same time, I've yet to see any conclusive evidence to support the other side.

[Obviously]

SF Kosmo goes into it in detail but their site seems to be seriously screwed up right now so I can't find the exact quotes.

[16bitter]

That's the infamous GameFan interview which has inaccuracies. It's not known why he gave that answer but it's since been discovered no one in Treasure had anything to do with it. It's that interview that fueled popular belief. It's also that interview which spawned the false legend that Treasure would never make a sequel.

So, what -- did they just make up the whole interview?

There's a reason GameFan went out of business and they're unabashed worshipping of Treasure was part of that reason.

Yes. I'm sure that's what did it.