SNES

[ary incorparated]

I got the starfox 2 rom,only it sufferes from awefull flicker,my state i dont like the game that much.

[16bitter]

I'm just going to agree to disagree with you because you seem to be getting a little steamed and I really have no hostile intentions.

I'm not getting steamed at all. What I am doing is pointing out the illogic and gaps in your stance.

As far as taking this too personally, I think you have that backwards.

I'm just trying to make you aware that there are some games out there that the gaming media have labled as Treasure involved really can't be proven one way or another. It's a company with a lot of myths surrounding it.

I DON'T know for a fact who worked on Castlevania IV, I've just been told that creditting Treasure for it is a mistake.

Exactly. You're assuming that Treasure had nothing to do with the making of CIV, even though there are many articles and even a quote from their president that they did have something to do with it.

Ridiculous? I'd so say so. Certainly contradictory.

It's also obvious that you're not up to directly debating this. No counter-evidence that really puts any holes in the idea that SCIV came from -- at least SOME -- members of the company that would become Treasure.

Thus, you have to circumvent.

"Castlevania IV was Treasure" rumor started.

What about the quote from the Treasure president saying, flat out, that they had something do with its development?

You refuse to answer to that. Like so much else.

[j_factor]

Okay there where imployees at konami,from treasure,But if treasure overall has such uge quality,why cant they defeat konami in that state,Look at this comparison

Contra 3,Contra hard corps

Arguably, a lot of stuff in Hard Corps is reactionary to Gunstar Heroes. I could go into detail, but I think it's pretty self-explanatory.

Anyway, I don't think it's accurate to say that Treasure was "the team" that did Castlevania IV. Maegewa in that interview does not state that the Castlevania IV team became Treasure, he merely lists it among the games that Treasure people have worked on (and he doesn't say all of them).

He says "Almost everyone is from Konami. Their previous titles include Qix, Bucky O'Hare, and The Simpsons for arcade, and Castlevania 4, Contra 3, and Axelay for the Super Famicom." Their previous titles. Meaning he himself didn't work on every one of those games, otherwise it would be "our". And if he didn't work on all of those games, we can infer that it wasn't a single cohesive team breaking off from Konami, it was different people who had worked on different projects.

edit: Also, Qix is a Taito game. So unless they were one team at Taito and then one team at Konami and then their own company, those games weren't all by the same team.

That GameSpot quote is just lazy journalism on their part. Nothing new from them.

[Obviously]

I'm contradicting myself because I'm conceding that someone in Treasure probably worked on Castlevania IV, but you're assuming that Treausure was a team at Konami before they left. They weren't, considering some of them didn't even work for Konami.

I can't prove anything, you're right, so I'm going to stop trying to defend my point since I just don't have the ammo as you've stated. Things would be a lot easier for both sides of the debate if there were credits to look at but Konami's psuedonym's make that impossible.

Personally my view is still that it's a Konami game - as are the others that Treasure employees have worked on - and I'm not creditting Treasure for it even if over half of the Treasure employees somehow were involved, it still doesn't make it their game.

[16bitter]

I'm contradicting myself because I'm conceding that someone in Treasure probably worked on Castlevania IV, but you're assuming that Treausure was a team at Konami before they left. They weren't, considering some of them didn't even work for Konami.

I'm not assuming anything at this point -- I have admitted that I could be wrong, after all.

At the same time you have not provided a shred of evidence to support your stance.

I can't prove anything, you're right, so I'm going to stop trying to defend my point since I just don't have the ammo as you've stated. Things would be a lot easier for both sides of the debate if there were credits to look at but Konami's psuedonym's make that impossible.

Yes.

Yet going bacj to what was said by Treasure's main man, it can be assumed that -- if he was right, which I'd tend to think he is over other sources -- that they, or at least one of them, had something to do with the creation of CIV.

The debate at this point would be just how much.

Personally my view is still that it's a Konami game - as are the others that Treasure employees have worked on - and I'm not creditting Treasure for it even if over half of the Treasure employees somehow were involved, it still doesn't make it their game.

Semantics like that have little to with what I originally stated. So I don't really get your point.

[Obviously]

The debate at this point would be just how much.

Except it's impossible to debate as previously stated.

Semantics like that have little to with what I originally stated. So I don't really get your point.

It's got nothing to do with the arguement which I'm done with at this point. It's just my final stance on the matter. No use going back and fourth with the same things said over and over again.

[16bitter]

Anyway, I don't think it's accurate to say that Treasure was "the team" that did Castlevania IV.

Has there been anything to directly contradict such an idea? No.

Maegewa in that interview does not state that the Castlevania IV team became Treasure, he merely lists it among the games that Treasure people have worked on (and he doesn't say all of them)

His statement is broad as to what they all had worked on at one time or another, and that doesn't preclude many or a team of them from having worked on one of those games -- including CIV.

What is known is that at least one, possibly multiple Treasure members worked on CIV by his statement. As to how many or how in control any or a group of them were is up for debate.

That GameSpot quote is just lazy journalism on their part. Nothing new from them.

Can you prove that it's wrong?

[16bitter]

The debate at this point would be just how much.

Except it's impossible to debate as previously stated.

As opposed to what?

It seems that, if you were concerned about what should or should not be debated -- by your standard alone, mind you -- you would not have opened this can of worms in the first place considering the total lack of evidence you brought to the table.

Logically, it is debatable because it is not known. If it was known, then it wouldn't be debatable. See?

Backwards.

Not complicated.

It's got nothing to do with the arguement which I'm done with at this point. It's just my final stance on the matter. No use going back and fourth with the same things said over and over again.

Oh, I think it had something to do with it. Such as an attempt by you to try and claim some form of rightness for yourself or side no matter the truth on this matter -- even though it only stems from a subjective standard.

Which rather undermines the statement in totality anyway.

[Obviously]

Will you be happy if I say, "You win"? I'm not changing my side and neither are you.

It's not debatable how many people from Treasure may or may not have worked on Castlevania IV because there's no evidence either way. You'd need the credits which would prove that I'm right except they don't because it doesn't use the real names of several people.

[16bitter]

Will you be happy if I say, "You win"?

Evidently you want the last word. Even though you've stated that you're done with this.

The contradictions are mounting. As is the hypocrisy -- I guess you're allowed to speak your mind at this point, but I should just shut up.

If you give me something I feel should be responded to -- guess what -- I will respond. If you want your place in this to be over and done with, then simply quit responding -- as you've previously said you would.

I'm not obligated to stop answering your posts at all.

I'm not chaning my side and neither are you.

What?

not debatable how many people from Treasure may or may not have worked on Castlevania IV because there's no evidence either way.

It's debatable because it's not known. Very simple.

If it was known -- through a mountain of evidence to one side -- then we would have nothing to debate.

A debate is not strictly defined or made up only through or by evidence. Try again. Or look it up, because you're way off on the meaning of the word or how one partakes in a debate.

You'd need the credits which would prove that I'm right

Huh?

What sense does that statement make when you just said you don't know at all?

So you know you'd be "right" about what exactly if the absolute truth was revealed?

[Obviously]

Typo.

And you didn't read my entire post.

If you READ THE CREDITS, they would support my theory BUT they CAN'T because some of the names have been changed so there's no evidence there for anyone. I promise this will be my final post.

[ary incorparated]

Aaah thanx J factor,maybe youre right,dont like gamespot that much they give unreasonable rates,like matrimelee a 9 and Ranger x a 7,Ign does the same a bit.But still love the reactions in Hard corps,like theres even a sprite laser gun and the rays reflect in every corner,Contra hard corps is more Up to dat then Contra 3,BTW contra hard corps is released 2 years later but genesis is the so called weaker one then takes the benefit of the doubt and proves exually wrong with many games(overall Quality)But one thing and its good both Treasure and konami where feeling the pressure of competing in the same genre,but like Gunstar meets a uniek style while Contra remains but gets a extra layer of toughness and the Hardcore,Luckely they both felt the pressior of concurating,they both brought exellent games for the same system.Like the same with Tekken vs Virtua fighter on ps2,both made em" good cause of competing. ,Luckely weve got the core for the Hardcore games,Sega Genesis.

[Joe Redifer]

Gaaaa!!! OK here is the true, full story:

Before they became Treaure, all of its members were employees of other companies. One day, one of the future members of Treasure was busy putting the "Super" into Super Castlevania IV. He said to himself "This suckz. I hate this limp whip shit. Pisses me off. I wish someone would start some other company where I could make McDonalds games. That would totally roXxorz!"

And then Treasure was formed and we all enjoyed Gradius V. The end.

[16bitter]

Typo.

And you didn't read my entire post.

If you READ THE CREDITS, they would support my theory

Again, how do you know this when you state yourself that you, uh, don't know? So you know the "truth" even though you have no evidence or any overall or overwhelming reason to believe you're right? Does it get any more contradictory than this?

Highly illogical. And arrogant. Which is a synonym for prideful, which really says it all as to who is truly taking this personally even now.

If you were so sure of the nature of CIV's developm,ent you wouldn't have made the faux pas of claiming not one memberr of Treasure was involved in its creation.

BUT they CAN'T because some of the names have been changed so there's no evidence there for anyone.

Yes, you've said this over and over again. But it proves nothing as far as whether Treasure was behind CIV as a team or not.

You don't know if your theory (which has now shifted from an absolute condemnation of ANY Treasure employess being involved to a semantic question of "how many?" just as I previously stated) would be proven or destroyed at all as to whether Treasure was behind that game -- that's what your above statement actually proves when considered. How can you not see that?

And furthermore, your initial argument was that NO ONE from Treasure worked on Castelvania IV -- that obviously has been proven wrong. Thus your true theory and argument is down the drain altogther anyway.

I'm happy. Whether you can admit you're wrong or not, based on the parameters of this debate and where you started, you quite clearly are do far as it goes when considering your opening salvo and stance.

Either that or actual factual Treasure employees are wrong. I know who I'd trust.

I promise this will be my final post.

I've heard this many times as well. But, like so much else you've said, there's not a shred of evidence to support it -- quite the contrary, actually.

Of course, with this one key matter, you can finally change that.

[j_factor]

What is known is that at least one, possibly multiple Treasure members worked on CIV by his statement. As to how many or how in control any or a group of them were is up for debate.

That's my point. Your post before made an affirmation that the same team created the Contra series, made Castlevania IV, and then created Treasure. That's a bit of a leap from the interview you quoted where he states that one or more individuals in Treasure had worked on those games.