The "New" Mega Drive

[johnnyb]

It looks like the furry model!

[kool kitty89]

The only really decent Genesis clone is the FC3, and that's not even a dedicated genny clone. (it's NES+SNES+Genesis) But it's by far the best, only problem is the propritary controllers which supposedly have a little lag for Genesis games.

I think the NES and SNES are basicly the same as in the FC Twin and Yobo FC, but the odd thing is that Yobo's own GN Twin (dedicated Genesis clone) is greatly inferior to the FC 3 Plus, especially in terms of audio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBV9MBA5HGA


Also a MD/Genesis can't be "region free" at best it can have switches that let you configure the region (like the Scorpeon 16), as it's the cartridges that have the lock-out feature not the console itsself.


It really would be nice to have a "clone" or repro console using actual hardware instead of an emulator on a chip, (though I think the "NES on a chip" uses an ASIC rather than a fast processor doing software emulation), I don't know what the other clones out there do (like the FC 3 etc), it would be cool to see what would effectively be another Genesis 3, but at least add stereo and full cartridge compatibility. (adding the exp port would probably be too expensive) By the late Genesis 2 (VA-4) through the genesis 3, the board had been highly consolidated, with the VDP, PSG, YM2612, 68k, and Z80 (Z84) all on one chip. (is TecToy still making MD hardware? I think they were at least a few years back)

[nathanallan]

I'm not sure why anyone would bother trying to make a different proc work like a Genny/MD, or really replace any of the hardware. The stuff that makes a Gen/MD tick is really cheap. I have to say chip designers (crappy chip designers, that is) are pushing these things in hopes of making a few impulse buy bucks.

Right, I guess some of the hardware going into it will cost less, but making a good clone and not a crappy one will get good press and more demand.

Why sell 100 in a day, when you can sell 100,000 in a year? Because they want to sell 100 in a day, and that's it. Sucks.

[Chilly Willy]

It really would be nice to have a "clone" or repro console using actual hardware instead of an emulator on a chip, (though I think the "NES on a chip" uses an ASIC rather than a fast processor doing software emulation), I don't know what the other clones out there do (like the FC 3 etc), it would be cool to see what would effectively be another Genesis 3, but at least add stereo and full cartridge compatibility. (adding the exp port would probably be too expensive) By the late Genesis 2 (VA-4) through the genesis 3, the board had been highly consolidated, with the VDP, PSG, YM2612, 68k, and Z80 (Z84) all on one chip. (is TecToy still making MD hardware? I think they were at least a few years back)

The MiniMig-TG68 is an Amiga on an FPGA. Even the 68000 is in the FPGA. Seeing that, it should be possible to make a SEGA Genesis the same way.

http://gamesource.groups.yahoo.com/group/minimigtg68/

That would actually be a pretty cool project... an open source Genesis on FPGA.

[Ghaleon]

The MiniMig-TG68 is an Amiga on an FPGA. Even the 68000 is in the FPGA. Seeing that, it should be possible to make a SEGA Genesis the same way....That would actually be a pretty cool project... an open source Genesis on FPGA.

For sure. But can DAC-like ASICs be done on FPGAs? Could the VDP, for instance, be done this way?

[madcrow]

For sure. But can DAC-like ASICs be done on FPGAs? Could the VDP, for instance, be done this way?

Quite probably. The Amiga clone, for instance, does video out from an FPGA. Even more tellingly, so does the One Chip MSX, which has an implementation of the Yamaha V9938 VDP, a "cousin" of the Genesis VDP which was very similar in its internal design but which had different video modes...

[Ghaleon]

Sweet. So I guess that means there's an open implementation of the 68k in FPGA, and I'm 99% sure there's also one for the Z80, so someone just needs to get crackin' on implementing the VDP and any other accessory chips and we're good to go.

[Chilly Willy]

Sweet. So I guess that means there's an open implementation of the 68k in FPGA,

MiniMig uses this one from OpenCores.org: http://www.opencores.org/?do=project&who=tg68

and I'm 99% sure there's also one for the Z80,

http://www.opencores.org/?do=project&who=t80

so someone just needs to get crackin' on implementing the VDP and any other accessory chips and we're good to go.

The YM2612 would need to be implemented, but the work that has been done on figuring out exactly how it works from the output over at SpritesMind should be VERY helpful.

The VDP would definitely be a tough part.

[xXxTWO FACExXx]

To me all these "clone" systems are garbage all they are are just emulated chips thats it the compatability sucks balls and they redesign the controllers sometimes who the FUCK does that!

[kool kitty89]

To me all these "clone" systems are garbage all they are are just emulated chips thats it the compatability sucks balls and they redesign the controllers sometimes who the FUCK does that!

Are you sure? I assume by "emulate" you mean software emulation with a powerful processor (the case in point using a 32-bit ARM RISC processor), but I don't think this is true for all of them (obviously older clones -durring ot near the original lifetime) won't be like this as those fast processors would be too expensive. Most Famiclones supposedly use the "NES-on-a-Chip" ASIC, rather than software emulation, though this isn't the same as building an ASIC with all of the original chips (or variations therof) all on-die in a single, consolidated chip. (the VA-4 Genesis Model 2 doesn't have discrete YM2612, VDP, 68k, or Z80, but it's still the real hardware)

And the point of different controllers in some cases is necessary (ie dual Genesis+NES/SNES tend to use the Nintendo controller logic in a propritary connection), though it seems like most dedicated Genesis clones out there are using the Nintendo logic as well, which sucks (lag is sometimes an issue too). With NES/SNES it's pretty simple to use the real controllers as both systems share the same interface logic, combination SNES+NES (like the FC Twin) tend to use the original, fully compatible SNES ports. (wile NES ones usually have the standard NES ports)

With the Atari 2600 the simple disign meant that it was easy to approximate using off the shelf parts (I think the TIA was the only one that needed to be substituted), hence why the competing Mattell and Coleco (legally) released Atari 2600 adaptors for their systems, Coleco even releasing the standalone "Gemini." This is of couse a bit of a different situation of course.

[kool kitty89]

Ok, I just found this thread: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5547

So the Gen-X and GN Twin actually do use real Genesis hardware, or at least the TecToy ASIC of the Genesis/MD 3 (which I think is pretty much identical to the ASIC Sega used in the VA-4 Model 2) Apparently the overall set-up is nearly identical to the Genesis 3. (though at least the controller interface seems to have been changed)

The Genesis/MD 3 has crap sound as well (and mono only to boot), but this is due to a poor mixing circuit, the ASIC (like with the Model 2) is technically slightly superior to the original genesis hardware (with the discrete YM2612), so it has the potential for excellent audio quality with a good mixing circuit. (or TmEE's CCA mod)

This would explain the high audio quality on the FC 3 Plus, probably the same hardware, but with a good mixing circuit.

An additional note, the CXA1645 video encoder of the Genesis 3 (also on the VA-3/4 Model 2 iirc) has a pretty nice composite signal (sharp and bright; indivindual pixels can be easily seen) and supports S-Video. (via mod or a clone could include it stock)

So these machines are indeed techinically authentic, unlike this POC emulator on a chip...

[Da_Shocker]

And somebody can't do a real Neptune clone?

[Chilly Willy]

And somebody can't do a real Neptune clone?

I'd love to work on one, but I doubt I'll have the time anytime soon. I'd start with the OpenCore projects mentioned above and an Altera DE2 board. Probably put it in a Saturn case to make an All-In-One SEGA Genesis/CD/32X.

Curious thing I've noticed: I got my CDX last week, and I noticed that the Saturn is basically styled to be a big CDX. Just thought that was interesting.

[tofu]

I was going to start my own thread but there's a ten post minimum and I don't feel like spamming.

I work for Hyperkin and the boss of AtGames is walking into our office this afternoon. My boss has asked that I gather up some information so that I can make recommendations to him about possible changes.

I grew up Atari -> SNES -> Gamecube and have spent the majority of my young adult life rediscovering NES classics so I'm not going to pretend like I know jack about Genesis.

If anybody here had a chance to talk to AtGames candidly, what would you say to him? I know there's a massive amount of incompatibilities to the Twin Pad systems being shoveled out worldwide so I know improvements need to be made. Even as a toy it fails any quality standard.

: flamesuit on

[gamegenie]

I was going to start my own thread but there's a ten post minimum and I don't feel like spamming.

I work for Hyperkin and the boss of AtGames is walking into our office this afternoon. My boss has asked that I gather up some information so that I can make recommendations to him about possible changes.

I grew up Atari -> SNES -> Gamecube and have spent the majority of my young adult life rediscovering NES classics so I'm not going to pretend like I know jack about Genesis.

If anybody here had a chance to talk to AtGames candidly, what would you say to him? I know there's a massive amount of incompatibilities to the Twin Pad systems being shoveled out worldwide so I know improvements need to be made. Even as a toy it fails any quality standard.

: flamesuit on

For starters go with a different design than the rubber sand block look.

If you make the clone look authenticate, it will look more appealing. Look at Atari Inc. for example, they released that Flashback retro unit to luke warm sales. It was a crappy design and crappy quality.

They later released the Flashback 2, put together a real looking Atari 2600 design and the sales soared.

bundle a better set of games, will it hurt to go with some 3rd party games for a change instead of the same 1st party titles, Golden Axe, Columns, Shinobi.

Puts some Activision, Konami, CAPCOM games in.