Gunstar Heroes: Expert Speed Run: No Damage

[Joe Redifer]

This is a hell of a buggy game. Your vitality changes constantly between stages (going mostly down, sometimes up) and some health powerups say 15 onscreen yet give you 20 health. Other health powerups give you the onscreen amount.

[XeroShinobi]

*Sigh* No, it doesn't. Frame blending is: interpolating a higher frame rate into a lower frame rate - frame rate reduction. Interlacing (video) is a method to increase the frame rate without increasing the data rate, by updating odd/even lines at max frame rate. This produces combing, not blurring, in the upper half of the temporal resoluton. It increases temporal resolution, not decrease it. Simple *deinterlacing* can create that blur artifact that frame blending because it essentially does the samething (60hz to 30hz). But not all deinterlacing algorithms create that blur (because they convert to 60p with various algorithms or decimate the field rate and throw out the extra detail interpolating the left over field ).

Why interlaced SDTV video looks like ass on a PC/computer: scanlines don't overlap each other on a PC, previous interlaced scanlines don't fade on a PC display.




What!?



No, a frame is not "just two fields interlacing". If the source/material is progressive, there is no interlacing. Interlacing is a method of temporal compression. Only in interlaced source, do two fields create a full detail frame at half temporal resolution point. That doesn't apply to non-interlaced video. Do you know why? Because there is no compressed temporal difference to display at a faster rate.

Interlacing or interlaced video has *nothing* to do with your video source/setup. Do you now understand?




Why do think I said to do a frame blend before uploading? I think it's great that some 19 year old is trying to school me on video format when I've been working with video for years. I studied, learned and generated NTSC video on a hardware level. Simple resistor ladder+port out and mcu with timed instructions. Not mention I worked on several low budget indie projects over the years as minor editor, special fx, and video format technical advisor. But hey, I'm glad you're here to school me... genius

It's your thread, do you still want to keep going back and forth on this?

This is going back and forth because quite honestly you have no idea what you are talking about. Your experience in the field doesn't make you any less ignorant about the basics of the subject, not to mention what the human eye can and cannot catch. Let's get this out of the way now: There is no way to make a 60 FPS video actually look the same in 30 frames. It cannot be done. FPS stands for frame per second, I say this because you seem don't seem to comprehend what that means. That second is always 1 second. The human eye can indeed detect the difference between any frame rate between 0-60 (even higher, actually)with relative ease, despite what some claim. Interlacing removes data in an attempt to to do the impossible, but it doesn't work. Frame blending, while by different means, attempts the same. Most people can tell the difference, and there is no deinterlacing method to make interlacing look exactly like progressive scan on any kind of display. The fact it is worse on a computer monitor doesn't change the fact that it doesn't look as good on a television either. The proof in in the industry; progressive scan televisions are more highly praised and cable companies make a fortune on HD cable and satellite boxes. New HD televisions coming out are all going to be using progressive scan (2160p).

Additionally, you seem to be ignorant of the fact that I'm using video editing software, specifically Sony Vegas Pro 9. I can easily convert videos recorded in progressive scan and interlace them and vice versa. Yes, it doesn't look at good as using material recorded with and displayed on hardware designed for interlacing, but nevertheless, it can be done. I don't know why that is so hard to believe. Now, obviously I'm not actually using interlacing. In actuality, for the videos I have up that use blur to show those missing frames, I simply used smart sampling at 59.940 progressive scan. But it produces the same effect. Since YouTube can't actually display Double NTSC, it is true I should just render it in standard NTSC. Smart sampling would still show the missing frames, along with all that lovely blur, but take up less space and therefore be a shorter upload.

[XeroShinobi]

This is a hell of a buggy game. Your vitality changes constantly between stages (going mostly down, sometimes up) and some health powerups say 15 onscreen yet give you 20 health. Other health powerups give you the onscreen amount.

What? The vitality has always changed after completing a level. Every level completed has the player start off with 20 more vitality than they started off with on the previous level. This is independent of any health picked up along the way.

Example: The first stage played has the player start off with 100 vitality. The player finishes that stage and picks stage 3. On this stage the player will start with 120, even if they had 150 by the end of stage 1. After this, the player selects stage 2. On this stage the player will start with 140 vitality, etc.

Nowhere does a health pick up grant more vitality than it states. I suggest you re-watch and pay closer attention to vitality if you are still perplexed.

[Flygon]

I'm amazed we are able to have a argument about how interlacing works across two pages.

[XeroShinobi]

I'm amazed we are able to have a argument about how interlacing works across two pages.

Well, it's irrelevant now. The run is down, it'll be re-uploaded and ready for viewing early tomorrow. I'll make sure to edit the embeds on the fist post.

Original aspect ratio has been maintained, and I'm using smart-sampled 30p. Hopefully the conversation can be about the actual speed run now, with an occasional mention on the attention to detail on the video quality. Really, some of you people don't seem to get the amount of work that goes into a quality speed run. Any complaints about this latest upload can be addressed to 555 I-Don't-Give-A-Shit Rd. I've re-uploaded this run too many times already.

[Joe Redifer]

Nowhere does a health pick up grant more vitality than it states. I suggest you re-watch and pay closer attention to vitality if you are still perplexed.

Yes it did. I would have proven it, too, but you removed the video. You had 220, then got a health for 15 and it went to 240. Fact.

Also, Tom really does have an idea of what he is talking about. He is 100% correct in his discussion on interlacing and frame blending. With interlacing, each field is from a different moment in time even if two fields make one frame. The Genesis does not interlace (on this game), so each field can be considered a frame unto itself. I don't think he is saying that 30fps can look the same as 60fps, he is just saying that you are throwing away half of the information and is suggesting an alternative work around to help compensate for the loss.

[XeroShinobi]

Yes it did. I would have proven it, too, but you removed the video. You had 220, then got a health for 15 and it went to 240. Fact.

Also, Tom really does have an idea of what he is talking about. He is 100% correct in his discussion on interlacing and frame blending. With interlacing, each field is from a different moment in time even if two fields make one frame. The Genesis does not interlace (on this game), so each field can be considered a frame unto itself. I don't think he is saying that 30fps can look the same as 60fps, he is just saying that you are throwing away half of the information and is suggesting an alternative work around to help compensate for the loss.

When the hell did I imply that the Genesis interlaces? Honestly, I'm getting sick of these bull insinuations. Read with some comprehension. I was talking about additional encoding with editing software and optimizing for YouTube. Specifically, Sony freaking Vegas Pro 9.

Also, stop claiming things fact when they are most certainly not. There are only TWO places in the entire game where I have 220 vitality and then proceed to pick up more health. On stage 5 and on the last stage right before Golden Silver. On stage 5, I pick up a FIFTEEN and go to 235. I still have the original video, so I know this for a fact. On the last level, I go from 220 to 240, by picking up a clearly registered 20. The video will be re-uploaded relatively soon, so you'll be able to see this for yourself. Not to sound overtly offensive, but you were unaware of how the vitality system worked in the first place. You have no business claiming any piece of Gunstar Heroes info as fact.

[Joe Redifer]

I can claim what I see in the video as fact. I double checked it to make sure more than once. I should have grabbed screen shots at the time. I may be wrong about the exact numbers of the vitality, but I do remember 15=20.

Vegas Pro is... mediocre.

[DarkTechnomancer]

I can claim what I see in the video as fact. I double checked it to make sure more than once. I should have grabbed screen shots at the time. I may be wrong about the exact numbers of the vitality, but I do remember 15=20.

Vegas Pro is... mediocre.

He'll be reuploading the video, so the point is moot. It will be proven/disproven when the video is back up. As for Vegas Pro, compared to Windows Movie Maker it is Jesus is video editing software form.

[Joe Redifer]

Yes it is, but coming from my world it still isn't much to brag about. Premiere Pro is better still and Final Cut Pro even better than that, but this discussion about editing software is kind of irrelevant I suppose.

[XeroShinobi]

Actually, on the space level (stage 6), both the health pick ups are glitched. It happened every time I tested it on Expert, and is not unique to my run. Good eye on that, I'm too busy trying not to get hit on the most annoying level for me to bother paying attention to vitality at the top. I think an old friend of mine, goes by IFeelfe on YouTube actually pointed that out before. Either way, shouldn't surprise me, as I'm already aware of other glitches on that level, like skipping the asteroid snake. That's the only spot where that happens though (with any frequency, anyway), and the increasing/decreasing stage starting vitality is not a glitch.

The run will begin uploading in a few hours and all the parts should be up and finished processing by noon tomorrow. I perform several intentional glitches, like going on the other side of the mine while Green throws the gem, or controlling the chaser fire during the pre-Golden Silver, Grey scene, as well as some exploitations like the dice maze luck manipulation throw. There are a few I don't do because they aren't applicable to a speed run or are confined to 2 player (throwing Black off the level for the lulz). All around, Gunstar Heroes isn't very glitchy, the Sonic games blow it out of the water for that.

Also, I was never bragging about Sony Vegas here. I simply added "freaking" to stress the point itself. I've mentioned it before, and it should have been obvious from the start I was using additional software to render the videos. If you read my posts, or better yet the wiki links, you should also be well aware I described interlacing on the nose. My point was only that blurring to show hidden frames is not ideal, and I was unaware of the limitations of YouTube when the last incarnation of my run was uploaded. However, simple explanations lead to crucifixion here. Honestly, you guys are very inhospitable. Even when you appear to neutral, on the drop of the dime you'll become overtly aggressive if I say something that differs from your opinion or correct you. Minor mistakes happen, deal with it.

[Joe Redifer]

OK that's what I was pointing out. I wasn't implying that you were cheating or anything. All is cool.

[XeroShinobi]

OK that's what I was pointing out. I wasn't implying that you were cheating or anything. All is cool.

I didn't think you were implying I was cheating. That would be one incredibly useless cheat, considering that I don't get hit, lol. Anyways, I'm off for now. I'll be back tomorrow to update embeds, et cetera. I'm hoping this upload will satisfy everyone, and I can stop re-rendering this and perhaps get started on some more speed runs.

[Alianger]

Great run, and the quality is excellent considering it's youtube.

[XeroShinobi]

Of course, YouTube decided to be glitchy and slow today. The final part is still being processed, even though it finished uploading 4 hours ago.

Ok, it's done now.