How would you PWN a SNES fanboy?

[Da_Shocker]

Tweak the hardware WTF. The SNES of MK2 version had more colors and better sound than the Genesis version. Well the sound was leaps and bounds better than the Genesis but Probe was a horrible Genesis developer.

[NeoVamp]

I never understood why both MK1 and MK2 were the both mbit size on both systems,
yet the Snes always seemed to have more stuff like bio pics, ending pics, sounds, frames.

does the Genesis really compress that badly?

I mean.. I understand that the Genesis had a very limited palette choice,
and thats why MK1 was grainy and MK2 was purpley-red.

but how did they manage to make both versions of MKII 24Mbit when
so much was cut from the Genesis version but not from the Snes version.

Goro's Lair, all the announcer clips, raiden scream, fatality,babality,friendship,
animation frames, shao kahn clips, bio pics, ending pics, parts of stages that went missing.


I can't help but think that the reason why we got empty versions of MK1/2
was because Sega wanted to make double their money by later bringing out
"superior" versions on Sega CD and 32X.

[The Coop]

I never understood why both MK1 and MK2 were the both mbit size on both systems,
yet the Snes always seemed to have more stuff like bio pics, ending pics, sounds, frames.

does the Genesis really compress that badly?

I mean.. I understand that the Genesis had a very limited palette choice,
and thats why MK1 was grainy and MK2 was purpley-red.

but how did they manage to make both versions of MKII 24Mbit when
so much was cut from the Genesis version but not from the Snes version.

Goro's Lair, all the announcer clips, raiden scream, fatality,babality,friendship,
animation frames, shao kahn clips, bio pics, ending pics, parts of stages that went missing.


I can't help but think that the reason why we got empty versions of MK1/2
was because Sega wanted to make double their money by later bringing out
"superior" versions on Sega CD and 32X.

The reason there were so many cuts on the Genesis versions, was because Probe was basically horrid at making arcade ports to the Genesis. They had the space on the Sega CD, and they had the space on the Saturn, yet they still botched those ports (especially the Saturn MK2). There was no plot by Sega. It was Probe's painfully blatant level of programming ineptitude (or their complete lack of giving a shit) that gave us Genesis, 32X and Saturn owners iffy ports that could and should have been better than they were.

Sculptured Software's Genesis port of MK3 showed that pretty clearly in my opinion.

[Da_Shocker]

The reason there were so many cuts on the Genesis versions, was because Probe was basically horrid at making arcade ports to the Genesis. They had the space on the Sega CD, and they had the space on the Saturn, yet they still botched those ports (especially the Saturn MK2). There was no plot by Sega. It was Probe's painfully blatant level of programming ineptitude (or their complete lack of giving a shit) that gave us Genesis, 32X and Saturn owners iffy ports that could and should have been better than they were.

Sculptured Software's Genesis port of MK3 showed that pretty clearly in my opinion.

Well you can also blame Sega for allowing these piss poor ports especially with the 32X and Saturn ports. I also remember how Sega Visions was bragging about how SSF2 had 40 megs compared to the SNES puny 32 lol. Then when the 32X version of MKII came out they never attempted to put it above the SNES version. Sculptured also did WWF: The Arcade Game.

[Cornugon]

The reason there were so many cuts on the Genesis versions, was because Probe was basically horrid at making arcade ports to the Genesis. They had the space on the Sega CD, and they had the space on the Saturn, yet they still botched those ports (especially the Saturn MK2). There was no plot by Sega. It was Probe's painfully blatant level of programming ineptitude (or their complete lack of giving a shit) that gave us Genesis, 32X and Saturn owners iffy ports that could and should have been better than they were.

Well comparing to the Amiga ports (also made by Probe), the MK1 version was slightly better (somewhat more smooth, out-of-the-box blood&gore, all announcer sounds, better music/sfx (although not of great quality), but still as grainy looking as the Genesis version, only problem is the just one button )
The MKII version is much worse, while the Genesis seems to play smoothly, the Amiga version is jerky, even more grainy (is it that hard for digitized graphics to tone them down to 64 or 32 colors and not letting them look like shit?), and the support for two-button joysticks/pads and announcer sfx (still in not great quality) don't make up for it...

[The Coop]

Da_Shocker- I doubt Sega "allowed" them put it out. That infamous seal of quality meant nothing beyond the game was done by an official Sega third party licensee. As we've all seen, there were plenty of bad Genesis games that carried that seal, so I wouldn't bet on Sega doing much of anything to monitor the game's development or quality level, or giving it the okay when Probe/Acclaim were done with it.



Cornugon- And let's not forget what Probe did to the Genesis port of G-LOC (reviewed for your convenience by you know who ).

I just don't think they knew how to optimize... at all. We all know 16Mb games that looked, sounded and played better than the Genesis MK1 and MK2 games. So how they got so much wrong just comes down to how bad they were at ports, and utilizing the Genesis' capabilities.

Of course, their own original games turned out better oddly enough. Makes you wonder.

[Cornugon]

Cornugon- And let's not forget what Probe did to the Genesis port of G-LOC (reviewed for your convenience by you know who ).

I just don't think they knew how to optimize... at all. We all know 16Mb games that looked, sounded and played better than the Genesis MK1 and MK2 games. So how they got so much wrong just comes down to how bad they were at ports, and utilizing the Genesis' capabilities.

Of course, their own original games turned out better oddly enough. Makes you wonder.

I looked up Probe's work on the Amiga, and almost all they made was ports (of arcades or otherwise) except for maybe Back to the Future III which was one of their own (and one of the most crappy games ever)
They were also behind the crappy Amiga Out Run, crappy Primal Rage, crappy T2 Arcade, crappy Road Blasters, and crappy Side Arms. I haven't played the Smash TV and Super Monace GP versions yet but I expect the worst . None of them had optimizations indeed, and that wasn't because of hardware limitations.

Maybe Supremacy/Overlord is good still

[jesus.arnold]

I've never seen an emulator that could eliminate the slowdown software created on real hardware. I have seen emulators that allow you to run the game faster than it was intended, but the slowdown moments would still show up.

Really? I thought I'd seen options for this sort of thing once, as well as removing sprite limits and such, either way it can be plainly seen that the guy's removed collision detection so maybe that's one of the reasons why the game is running better.

I thought the video didn't do the game justice, since you can see it skip a frame about every 4 or 5 seconds, giving the illusion that the game isn't running smoothly.

Yeah the frame rate has definately taken a hit in that video, it's more flickery and stuttery the the real thing.

[retrospiel]

But I do have to ask why do people like to list import games that aren't even readily accessible. I don't think I have ever heard SNES fanboys mention import games.

Because Nintendo always did release their own games in the states - unlike Sega which stopped doing that almost entirely in early 1993 with only few exceptions. I assume that they somehow felt that they knew better what the gamers wanted (lol), and at the same time felt that they should help pushing and shaping the local scene. "Support your local coder" - a noble cause but why on earth would you stop releasing the games that everyone bought the machine for ? I mean, I bought my Mega Drive for Sonic, Revenge of Shinobi and Castle of Illusion, not Flicky's Island, X-perts or Jurrassic Park.

of course the SFC was still goin strong and SoJ killed the Genesis over here.

It's been dead the day the 32X came out in the US, which was only a few days before Saturn and PlayStation came out in Japan. And when Saturn and PlayStation finally were released in the US, the stench of the rotting corpse was getting pretty unbearable...
In 1996 when they cancelled software support for anything but Saturn, Sega of America was already bankrupt. They went from spending billions on high end multimedia studios in 1993 to the point where they couldn't even afford TV ads anymore.
I think these three years, from the introduction of the region lock-out and the end of Japanese Sega software in the West in 1993 to the point in late 1996 when they couldn't afford to air TV commercials for the holiday season are the saddest, yet most interesting three years in Sega's history.
- The only thing coming close would be Peter Moore's decision to cancel Dreamcast support.

[Zebbe]

But I do have to ask why do people like to list import games that aren't even readily accessible. I don't think I have ever heard SNES fanboys mention import games.

Maybe because some of the best (Alien Soldier, Panorama Cotton) imports were better than, let's say, Madden and Mortal Kombat. And it's not like you can say: "Sorry, you may only mention games I've heard of that were released here. Other games don't count because I'm too ignorant to look beyond commercial crap."

[jesus.arnold]

I don't think I have ever heard SNES fanboys mention import games.

LMAO! from the point of view of a European, SNES fanboys list nothing but imports

Final Fantasy II - never released here
Final Fantasy III - never released here
Chrono Trigger - never released here
Earthbound - never released here
Lufia - Never released here (Our Lufia is actually the 2nd game renamed)
Super Mario RPG - never released here

You need to take into account that this forum is populated by both Americans and Europeans, virtually everything I've seen mentioned up to this point (apart from Panarama Cotton and Gley Lancer) was available in Europe, I don't see why we can't bring up games like Alien Soldier and Zero Wing which were actually released here.

[Cornugon]

LMAO! from the point of view of a European, SNES fanboys list nothing but imports

Chrono Trigger - never released here

I can second to that, I always read that Sega was so popular in Europe, well that goes probably for every country except the Netherlands, which has a strong (classic) Nintendo foothold here. On a lot of Dutch forums when it comes to retro gaming it's always about (S)NES this and (S)NES that, Ocarina of Time such and other blabla, and sometimes a Playstation and a Commodore 64 and MSX if you're lucky.
You almost NEVER hear people about the Megadrive here, people don't talk about Sonic, or Streets of Rage... Shops selling Retro games almost only sell Nintendo.
Yeah it's that bad.

Also when in retro mood you always hear people about Chronotrigger, that it's one of the best games ever and if one wants it it's gonna be expensive this and that...

So as you can see, there are a lot of (S)NES fanboys here in our small country

EDIT: By the way, why the hell wasn't Chrono Trigger released in Europe (before the DS version), if it was so succesful?

[Zebbe]

I've heard different whitewashes on that, one that Europeans don't like RPGs and one that French/Germans cannot play games unless they have their own language. It wouldn't be worth putting down two months work (that's how much time they gave the English translation) for them, and since their markets are so big it's not cost efficient to release the English version to the rest of Europe either. Doesn't it all make perfect sense?

[jesus.arnold]

Netherlands, which has a strong (classic) Nintendo foothold here.

Hmmm, I guess that's another European country win for Nintendo then, though I doubt the Netherlands makes up a hell of a lot of sales, Nintendo seem to have dominated both Germany and Scandinavia too, whilst the Mega Drive dominated the UK, and probably Spain and Italy from what I've heard. France is still a question mark though, the French seem to be quite insular for some reason, only sticking to their own websites.

By the way, why the hell wasn't Chrono Trigger released in Europe (before the DS version), if it was so succesful?

Historically Japanese RPG's didn't sell particularly well in Europe during that period, and remember that a European RPG release entails multiple costly translations for all the different countries.

EDIT: what Zebbe said pretty much

[Cornugon]

Hmmm, I guess that's another European country win for Nintendo then, though I doubt the Netherlands makes up a hell of a lot of sales, Nintendo seem to have dominated both Germany and Scandinavia too, whilst the Mega Drive dominated the UK, and probably Spain and Italy from what I've heard. France is still a question mark though, the French seem to be quite insular for some reason, only sticking to their own websites.

I thought Sega was quite succesfull in Germany, seeing how much Sega games on European Ebay actually come from Germany.

Historically Japanese RPG's didn't sell particularly well in Europe during that period, and remember that a European RPG release entails multiple costly translations for all the different countries.

EDIT: what Zebbe said pretty much

Still strange since the Phantasy Stars and Shining Forces are all released here.