Most powerful 2D arcade board?

[kool kitty89]

Wow, i didn't know minor grammar differences between British and American English was such mind boggling problem. Way to nitpick something so minor that didn't accomplish anything? Either if i can recall, are both used in similar/identical sentences. Both are past tense, right? Remember i wasn't raised in USA. Also, where do you see those letters you are trying to point out to me in my quoted text?

I think his point with the "British" comment was that (at least stereotypically), British culture is harsher on grammer than US culture.

The "seen" vs "saw" mistake is not specific to England, it's one of the more common mistakes in American grammer as well. I sympathize with 17days, I find grammer errors (not typos so much) rather frustrating to read though (rather like the "wall of text" resulting from not using spacing between paragraphs), but I usually don't like to confront people about it as it tends to be rather pointless. (and gets things off topic)

Secondly. Your saying i can't evaluate a game based on a port. I understand i can't judge a game from a port on say, the Megadrive to determine the capabilities of the Neo Geo. But isn't the PS1's 2D chip more capable than that of the Neo Geo's ironically? I seen videos on Youtube of Metal Slug on the Saturn, PS1 and the Neo Geo, the parallax scrolling on all 3 look the same to me. Judging the PS1 and the Neo Geo hardware, the PS1 version should be better!.

Hmm, It might be a resonable representation, but only emulated versions would properly demonstrate it. (like newer compilations/downloads on Xbox/PS2 or current gen consoles, or MAME)

As to the PS1's hardware, it had no "2D chip," I beleive all it's 2D games used the 3D hardware, either witht he GPU in "sprite" mode (outputting rectangular tiles) or using paired textured poltgons "pased together" into quadrilaterals, plus any software rendering for additional stuff. (I think that might have been used for some parts of the background, though I'd immagine most stuff was does with "sprites" and polygon tiles)

And I'm not sure how that compares to the Neo Geo's monster sprite hardware, it might match it in all areas, I'm not sure. (the PSX would certianly have an advantage in terms of colors on-screen and master palette, plus the ability to have "sprite" scaling using polygon tiles, but the RAM limitations wouldn't limit it compared to the massive ROM sizes many Neo Geo games used -enought to require the Neo CD to have over 3x the RAM of the PSX)

[Da_Shocker]

The Neo could parallax scroll just fine, but that Zedblade game is not a good example. The scrolling isn't even smooth. Look at the enemies sitting on the ground or even the rock that scrolls across the screen from :40 to :54. It bounces back and forth as it scrolls. This cannot be blamed on Youtube or the user who encoded the video. It can only be blamed on the game. I have actually seen many Neo Geo games do this. Must be a flaw in the system somewhere.

I do know that the Neo Geo is nowhere near as good as the internet pretends it to be. For an arcade machine, it could have been much better designed as it was low end in the arcades even when it was introduced.

[Joe Redifer]

Your point?

[Aarzak]

Beat-em-ups usually aren't a good example of parallax scrolling. Same goes for fighting games. Platformers, on the other hand, are. "Magician Lord", one of the Neo's first ever games from 1990, had decent parallax scrolling, and was just scratching the surface of its capabilities:

[Joe Redifer]

The Neo had no dedicated backgrounds like the Genesis does, everything was done with sprites. Given the sprite capabilities of the system, it could have about 4 full screens of scrolling. Since some of that would actually be "game sprites", then 3 layers of scrolling with action on top. Basically the same capabilities as the SNES, but with more color capabilities. There's another area where the Neo Geo was rarely taken advantage of: color. No smooth gradients like the SNES. Instead, dithered gradients like the Genesis were often used. The Neo Geo also couldn't do rotation. Did I already say that?

To me, Neo Geo graphics tend to look pretty grainy compared to other arcade games of the day. King of Fighters games look amateurish and pathetic compared to the Capcom fighters. The Neo Geo has great graphics for a home system, but for an arcade system it has always been somewhat lacking. Even arcade Strider blows away most graphics that were accomplished on the Neo Geo.

Bottom line: the Neo Geo is NOWHERE NEAR being the most powerful dedicated 2D arcade system. Maybe Sega's System 32? Where is Parallax Scroll? The forum member, not the graphic trick.

[j_factor]

*ahem*

"Of all the games I saw on it"

"although I saw parallax scrolling, there wasn't much"

did I just have to correct a British person's grammar? dear god. I mean, I'll let "their" and "they're" go, and of course run on sentences are fair game, but come on.

I don't normally correct people's grammar, but your correction is wrong. It should be, "Of all the games I've seen on it..." You might want to do a little brushing up on English verb tenses.

[17daysolderthannes]

I don't normally correct people's grammar, but your correction is wrong. It should be, "Of all the games I've seen on it..." You might want to do a little brushing up on English verb tenses.

I'll give you that "of all the games I've seen on it" might be a little more correct, but "although I saw parallax scrolling, there wasn't much" is definitely the correct usage because he is referring to one specific instance, not a multitude of occurrences.

Either way, as much as the British rag on Americans and claim we have butchered the language, I find it completely unacceptable for such a gross misuse of grammar. I mean, "I seen" pretty much sounds like the worst street ebonics imaginable.

edit: I see you only corrected the first one. I was a bit hasty, I just had to get rid of the "I seen" grammatical abortion as soon as possible and stomped on my own point.

[Jasper061992]

The "seen" vs "saw" mistake is not specific to England, it's one of the more common mistakes in American grammer as well. I sympathize with 17days, I find grammer errors (not typos so much) rather frustrating to read though (rather like the "wall of text" resulting from not using spacing between paragraphs), but I usually don't like to confront people about it as it tends to be rather pointless. (and gets things off topic)

While i understand your point, i feel it's unecessary to point out something so minor as a single word mistake? I mean, i felt i was in English class! If i later knew it was an error, i would have corrected it myself. But again, both are past tense words so it shouldn't be that difficult to comprehend regardless. If it was a sentence full of grammar errors, alright fair enough, but seen vs saw? I mean come on? Really? Why waste your time typing out something about single worded mistakes (especially when both meant the same thing) when it only gets things off topic?

I'll give you that "of all the games I've seen on it" might be a little more correct, but "although I saw parallax scrolling, there wasn't much" is definitely the correct usage because he is referring to one specific instance, not a multitude of occurrences.

Either way, as much as the British rag on Americans and claim we have butchered the language, I find it completely unacceptable for such a gross misuse of grammar. I mean, "I seen" pretty much sounds like the worst street ebonics imaginable.

edit: I see you only corrected the first one. I was a bit hasty, I just had to get rid of the "I seen" grammatical abortion as soon as possible and stomped on my own point.

Where did you see me criticise American people on how they butched the English Language? That wasn't even my point! Why are you bringing that up? Are you on defensive mode on something i didn't even criticise you on? Do you know how ebonics grammar is typed? Why bring that up based on "I seen" ? Thats just it, grammar mistake, not ebonics.

To be honest, this won't go anywhere and will only result in the thread being locked, so i'll just leave it at that. The last thing i want in a thread that is about Arcade game boards is for it to turn into some ridiculous political catfight on....Gasp!...Grammar!

Alright, back on topic...

[17daysolderthannes]

While i understand your point, i feel it's unecessary to point out something so minor as a single word mistake? I mean, i felt i was in English class! If i later knew it was an error, i would have corrected it myself. But again, both are past tense words so it shouldn't be that difficult to comprehend regardless. If it was a sentence full of grammar errors, alright fair enough, but seen vs saw? I mean come on? Really? Why waste your time typing out something about single worded mistakes (especially when both meant the same thing) when it only gets things off topic?

Alright back on topic now...

Well, you did it over and over again, and in fact you miss the " 've " on many words in your posts and it was frankly driving me nuts. Ebonics-sounding words and phrases drive me insane, it's just a major pet peeve. Like I said, run on sentences are fine by me since I don't feel like properly deconstructing my thoughts into neat and tidy chunklets, but blatant misuse of words that don't even sound the same drive me up a wall.

now back on topic.

[Jasper061992]

Well, you did it over and over again, and in fact you miss the " 've " on many words in your posts and it was frankly driving me nuts. Ebonics-sounding words and phrases drive me insane, it's just a major pet peeve. Like I said, run on sentences are fine by me since I don't feel like properly deconstructing my thoughts into neat and tidy chunklets, but blatant misuse of words that don't even sound the same drive me up a wall.

now back on topic.

Whatever you say, chief. I'm already back on topic, you just continued the debate.

Joe Redifer

The Neo had no dedicated backgrounds like the Genesis does, everything was done with sprites. Given the sprite capabilities of the system, it could have about 4 full screens of scrolling. Since some of that would actually be "game sprites", then 3 layers of scrolling with action on top. Basically the same capabilities as the SNES, but with more color capabilities. There's another area where the Neo Geo was rarely taken advantage of: color. No smooth gradients like the SNES. Instead, dithered gradients like the Genesis were often used. The Neo Geo also couldn't do rotation. Did I already say that?

This was basically my main point the whole time. Ok, the Neo Geo can do parallax scrolling, but developers didn't really focus on the feature on it. To me it says something. But how many scrolling layers can the Mega Drive and SNES do in comparison?

[17daysolderthannes]

:
This was basically my main point the whole time. Ok, the Neo Geo can do parallax scrolling, but developers didn't really focus on it much on it. How many scrolling layers can the Mega Drive and SNES do in comparison?

this many:

[Jasper061992]

this many:

I wanted a comparision, not one video. That isn't a comparison.

[Jorge Nuno]

Natively the MD can only scroll 2 layers.. However scrolling is done on line basis on each layer... so distinct horizontal lines on the same layer can scroll left or right by an arbitrary amount of pixels.
The sea on that vid is only one layer, where the bottom lines scroll more than the upper ones..

[Jasper061992]

Natively the MD can only scroll 2 layers.. However scrolling is done on line basis on each layer... so distinct horizontal lines on the same layer can scroll left or right by an arbitrary amount of pixels.
The sea on that vid is only one layer, where the bottom lines scroll more than the upper ones..

Woah, thats pretty efficient use of hardware right there. Can the Neo Geo do the same thing?

[N.Saibot]

Jim Power on the SNES could be a nice example of how SNES is capable of parallax scrolling too. Isn't any bit worse than Lightening Force imho, as far scrolling backgrounds go at least.